We are not in a "hotbed" of pool in our area. Other areas have a greater concentration of great players.
America vs Rest of the World
- Thread starter Maniac
- Start date
stewie
Active member
Food for thought: Europe compared to the US has less gambling and more non-handicapped competition.
Driving back from Atlantic City we talked about how those young kids make it (or don't) to the SVB Junior Open? Do they just sign up, do they get scouted? How does talent actually rise?
Europe has regional, national, Continental competition where you have a path to qualify for the next level with good performance in open tournaments for men, women, boys, girls. All I see here in NYC is APA, handicapped tournaments and leagues. There is so little incentive for many players to get better. And if you want to go from a 500 to 600, that's more difficult then it needs to be.
Driving back from Atlantic City we talked about how those young kids make it (or don't) to the SVB Junior Open? Do they just sign up, do they get scouted? How does talent actually rise?
Europe has regional, national, Continental competition where you have a path to qualify for the next level with good performance in open tournaments for men, women, boys, girls. All I see here in NYC is APA, handicapped tournaments and leagues. There is so little incentive for many players to get better. And if you want to go from a 500 to 600, that's more difficult then it needs to be.
Last edited:
Pool isn't a field you can get to via your guidance counselor. I'm inclined to believe it's the tried and true way, nepotism.
Exactly this. In Germany, at least, it IS fairly easily for a talented young person to get to at least 700. They can play in leagues, they get VERY good training, and they have a ton of killers to play against, to learn "what it is that they need to learn". They will never get banned from a tournament for being too good, etc. Their league membership + all the table time they could possibly want for 40 Euros a month. Generally with a key to the club.
There are many, MANY reasons why the Euros play better than Americans, as a general rule.
The way that players are developed in America is far far far behind how they are developed in other countries. In Europe they treat it like a sport and train hard with a lot of community support. They have a formal path from amateur to pro in most countries there with national and European championships one must earn the right to play in.
In China and Taiwan they practice relentlessly. Their sports associations support pool and in Taiwan pool is a high school sport.
In the Philippines they match up constantly. Players must earn backers and the standard is insanely high because those players often come from dirt poor situations and they are often playing for their survival.
For Americans it's all about the hustling and matching up with weight much more than it is about the sport. We have no formal path from amateur to pro. We have no formal community support or association support. We have handicapped leagues and capped tournaments. Anyone wishing to become a pro in America is largely on their own.
We were passed in the 2000s by the rest of the world. If you were to compare the easy that a 15 year old Joshua Filler was nurtured and supported versus a15 year old American then the contrast would be so clear.
I don't know that America will ever produce elite players again in any quantity that can threaten the rest of the world. If you're not 800 speed and higher then you're going to find it extremely difficult to have top five finishes in events that are heavily attended by 800 speed players.
That's how high the level is now. The lowest rating in the top 100 is 780. And every month more 800s are added.
In China and Taiwan they practice relentlessly. Their sports associations support pool and in Taiwan pool is a high school sport.
In the Philippines they match up constantly. Players must earn backers and the standard is insanely high because those players often come from dirt poor situations and they are often playing for their survival.
For Americans it's all about the hustling and matching up with weight much more than it is about the sport. We have no formal path from amateur to pro. We have no formal community support or association support. We have handicapped leagues and capped tournaments. Anyone wishing to become a pro in America is largely on their own.
We were passed in the 2000s by the rest of the world. If you were to compare the easy that a 15 year old Joshua Filler was nurtured and supported versus a15 year old American then the contrast would be so clear.
I don't know that America will ever produce elite players again in any quantity that can threaten the rest of the world. If you're not 800 speed and higher then you're going to find it extremely difficult to have top five finishes in events that are heavily attended by 800 speed players.
That's how high the level is now. The lowest rating in the top 100 is 780. And every month more 800s are added.
Exactly what I have been telling everyone since my time in Germany from 1989 to 1999.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
100% - in any context.
Some systems give more hope than others to people who want to enter the field of nepotistic selection.
I call it artificial selection.
"In America". You forgot that part. "In America", there are generally poor coaches, as compared to Europe, and less access to pool rooms, so "in America", yes, you pretty much have to be born into a family of players, or with one really good player, to a certain extent, to get a solid beginning to the game.
It is NOT that way in most of the countries that are currently dominating the USA in pool. In Germany, if a kid shows any talent at all for the game, they are generally taken under the wing of a couple of 600+ Fargo rate players in their home club (which has no stupid rules about not allowing minors just because they have alcohol), with regular access to higher level coaching. Most clubs with an Oberliga Team have at least one 700 for the kid to watch.
And it's that way in nearly every hobby/game/sport. Germans organize EVERYTHING, and it's just not a big deal if they don't make a ton of money at it. Most clubs are member-funded, and they are happy if they have a few hundred Euro a month left over after paying the bills for the club. Youth in Germany have literally hundreds of different clubs, i.e. "Vereins", that can take them as far as they could possibly want to go, in whatever they take a liking to. Which MEANS, that those unique kids with a inborn burning desire to win, are generally going to have competent coaching.
Most of this does not exist in this way in America.
Except team sports. Teach the kids how to conspire and win with mediocre moves. Exceptions being Tennis, Golf, and Cornholing.
And in the poor countries of Europe and Asia are many kids who see playing pool as a way to break out of poverty. They learn any way they can and are hungry to survive. I've seen it first hand in the Philippines, kids that come from the streets and make themselves into pool champions by sheer dedication. They live in the poolrooms, playing all day, every day, watching the great players who are everywhere. Kids like this are dangerous. They will refuse to lose! Pool is their golden ticket to a better life!
It's not nearly as well organized as in Germany and elsewhere but guess what, it works! They feed off each other, always in competition every day. They live for their "pool fights," batting heads with each other every day and anyone else who wants a game. The strongest of them not only survive but become champion players. You keep hearing new names coming out of the Philippines, and there are many more teenagers working their ass off to do the same. Manny Paquiao is putting on another one of his big tournaments in General Santos City in December with well over $100,000US up for grabs. There is a Singles and Doubles division. You want to see some great young players who are yet to emerge internationally, go there. I've been to some of his events and seen 15 year olds playing 700 speed. They asked me to come and do some commentary and I may if time allows.
DaWizard
Well-known member
It's true. They love organizing. Therefore you should never ever take your eye of the, before they organize you. We in Holland learned that the hard way some 80 years ago.
This is how it's done.
www.scmp.com
Inside the Chinese boarding school that only teaches snooker
Beijing’s World Snooker College aims to train the next Ding Junhui
www.scmp.com
These kids that see a way out, jump on it, and just plain refuse to lose are the keys to greatness. A handful of countries have had a champion boxer, then a whole generation of champion boxers follows them. Parica had a gold mine when he first came to America. Should have stayed quiet, wouldn't have had so many followers. Speaking relatively, huge wealth to be found in the continental US on a pool table.
Louisiana was very poor a generation or two ago. Some areas of wealth, many of severe poverty. In South Louisiana people in areas with severe poverty tended to be small, malnutrition growing up as much as genetics. They saw being a jockey could be a way out and we cranked out world champion jockeys by the handful after we had one.
Severe need, a little talent, and a lot of dedication can make a world champion, at the least a very successful player or athlete. As I found out a time or two over the years, hunger is inspirational!
Hu
America invests $0 into pool players.
SVB is the outcome.
Why cant other countries be like America?
Pool is used as a social tool.
Federation players have no personality as if they were recruited to compete like automatons.
The rest of the world needs recreational pool.
America has Earl and SVB thats a lot for awhile.
Now with Fedor on Team US, there is a pool pathway to America.
It is also worth noting that the rest of the world lives under a different government structure that significantly impacts career choices available to its people.
Historically the cost of education is a way to separate access to jobs. In pool America pioneered the WPBA, a professional association of women.
Its worth discussing at the federation level, the different needs of female players around the world. If the federation is not reaching out to those women, then player associations or clubs should.
A woman in America experiences life significantly different than women in countries where gender is used as a class structure.
The pool community is their connection.
Do them right and welcome the team transitioning in.
There are many great young female American players that are great ambassadors for girls from other countries. Some even have cute or dangerous nicknames.
SVB is the outcome.
Why cant other countries be like America?
Pool is used as a social tool.
Federation players have no personality as if they were recruited to compete like automatons.
The rest of the world needs recreational pool.
America has Earl and SVB thats a lot for awhile.
Now with Fedor on Team US, there is a pool pathway to America.
It is also worth noting that the rest of the world lives under a different government structure that significantly impacts career choices available to its people.
Historically the cost of education is a way to separate access to jobs. In pool America pioneered the WPBA, a professional association of women.
Its worth discussing at the federation level, the different needs of female players around the world. If the federation is not reaching out to those women, then player associations or clubs should.
A woman in America experiences life significantly different than women in countries where gender is used as a class structure.
The pool community is their connection.
Do them right and welcome the team transitioning in.
There are many great young female American players that are great ambassadors for girls from other countries. Some even have cute or dangerous nicknames.
Last edited:
100%. And most of the pool rooms host clubs. In my pool room in Germany, we had four tables in a separate room that was just for the club. I was in three other clubs where the members owned it. In two of them I was a key holding member.
I truly miss the German league structure.