American Pool NEEDS a Real Governing Body

[geno]

American Cue-Sport Needs a REAL Governing body. Not one that governs leagues as they do this themselves but one that Governs Professional and Amateur Tours and/or Independent Events. This needs to be something the Players (Amateur and Professional), the Promoters, the Room Owners and the Sponsors can all join and get behind.

So far we know this:
The BCA (not the BCA-POOL LEAGUE) is not in a position to do this.
Mark Griffin has not done this and does not seem very interested in doing it but would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Barry Berhman is not the person to do this but would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Definately not the APA, BCA-Pool League, TAP, Valley, ACS or any Pool League.
Greg Sullivan has shown no interest in doing this but just like Mark G he would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Allen Hopkins has shown no interest in doing this but just like Mark G and Greg S he would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Mike Janis has tried this but didn't pull it off but would more than likely get behind it and support it.
The ABP is trying to do it in some form from a pro players perspective but they would be better off joining something like this than doing it themselves.

I also believe some promoters and tours would also get behind this like Mike Zuglans Joss tour, the Maxim Tour, TK's SE Tour, The US Open, The Derby City Classic, Allen Hopkins Super Billiard Expo, the WPBA and possibly a few others.

The organization would simply be a governing body that would have many purposes. Some of those purposes would be:

A: To govern the rules
B: Settle Grievences
C: Set Standards
D: Provide Advertising Support
E: Attract New Sponsors
F: Attract TV Deals
G: Keep Records
H: Hold a Real Trade Show
I: Attract Industry Sponsors/Members
J: Hold Large National Events
H: Hold Many Regional/Local Events
J: Provide a clear path from Amateur to professional player
K: Provide a national event register for its members to attend
L-Z: I am sure exist but the elude me right now. Please feel free to make suggestions.

Now believe it or not we already have all of the above and much more. It is just that they are separate organizations or entities. As an example of this: AZ Billiards does a pretty good job of keeping player stats and tournament records and the BCA does a trade show and has members/sponsors and the WPA governs rules and each individual tour sets there own standards and The Super Billiards Expo, Derby City and the US Open hold large national events and the regional tours hold many regional/local events, Matt Braun has quite a few TV and production deals.

WE KNOW ALL OF THIS and IT IS A FACT. Just go with me on the above and accept it for the sake of this thread and cue-sports in the USA.

The QUESTIONS ARE:
How do we tie them all together?
Who is willing to tie them all together?
How much money will it take to tie them all together?
How do we convince everyone mentioned above that it would be in there best interest to tie them all together?

 

[Mark Griffin]

Governing body

Interesting.

If some standards are in place, we might be closer than some might admit.

There might be a lot of discussions this week at the BCA expo.

Mark griffin

 

[K.Mcphee]

We need support. I believe we have to go about this in a proper way or it'll just be circles and everyone ends up dissapointed.

 

[bigwillo]

Looking forward to it.

 

[JAM]

Interesting.

If some standards are in place, we might be closer than some might admit.

There might be a lot of discussions this week at the BCA expo.

Mark griffin

Mike Panazzo, Publisher of Billiards Digest, wrote a very complimentary article about the upcoming BCA show: Balancing the Budget

YOU HAVE to give the Billiard Congress of America credit. It remains one of the most optimistic groups around. Last year, bells and whistles could be heard as the trade group announced that the 2010 International Billiard & Home Recreation Expo in Las Vegas realized a 14 percent increase in exhibitors. Never mind that the one-year increase was 16 exhibitors… from 116 to 132. And never mind that just four years earlier the number of exhibitors was 300.

Heading into the 2011 expo, slated for July 13-15 at the Sands Convention Center in Las Vegas, the BCA office proudly announced that it expects to reach its "projected number of between 390 and 400" total booths. That would be 65-70 fewer booths than were filled in 2010.

"We're satisfied with those numbers," said BCA CEO Rob Johnson.

I feel for Rob. He's far and away the hardest working and most positive executive director the association has ever had, and I've seen them all dating back to the Bob Goodwin days when the BCA was run by the National Sporting Goods Association

There's never much publicity for this BCA show that I've seen on the Internet. It would be nice to see a stream of some sort or a video clip from an on-the-scene attendee! :smile:

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

IMHO this subject has been beat to death many time on this forum, and IMHO what is NEED is a Single Governing Body for ALL POOL. Like Golfs PGA.

There are many Big Fish in Pool each with their little pond, and each want to be the King of a Pond.

We recently lost a good Carrier in the Trucking Industry, it was call Roads West, it disappeared. It was a good carrier as the Drivers stayed a long time, the Drivers were for the most part happy working there, and they had good equipment being Tractors, and Trailers.

The Owner was made an offer he could not refuse, and Roads West was bought up by Knight Trucking, and the Old Road West Owner now is a Division Chief with Knight Trucking Refrigeration Division.

It was good for Knight, it was good for Roads West, and working as one they have gained market share, and Knight Trucking grew.

I do not see this type of mergers in the Pool industry, as I said each Big Fish wants to control a POND of their own be it small or big!

JMHO,

 

[mikefeiman]

There's never much publicity for this BCA show that I've seen on the Internet. It would be nice to see a stream of some sort or a video clip from an on-the-scene attendee! :smile:

You're being sarcastic, right? That editorial was pretty scathing in my opinion. He slams the show, he slams the org and closes by saying "The bottom line is that the BCA, and the billiard industry, will continue to meet projections as long as it continues to aim low". I'm not saying that he doesn't have valid points, I just found it to be surprisingly harsh coming from Mike P.

In my opinion, if the BCA wants to increase attendance, they should open it up to the public. Let the end users play with the new toys. The pool players get a sneak preview, the manufacturers get consumer feedback and the buyers can see first hand what products and cue models are actually driving interest instead of trusting a salesperson to point you in the right direction. Naturally you can still have your reps write wholesale orders, but most of the actual business gets done in the bar anyway.

There's no better way to get the public interested in buying your products than to let them test drive. All you have to do is walk into an Apple Store to see this in action.


Just my $0.02.

 

[JAM]

You're being sarcastic, right? That editorial was pretty scathing in my opinion. He slams the show, he slams the org and closes by saying "The bottom line is that the BCA, and the billiard industry, will continue to meet projections as long as it continues to aim low". I'm not saying that he doesn't have valid points, I just found it to be surprisingly harsh coming from Mike P.

In my opinion, if the BCA wants to increase attendance, they should open it up to the public. Let the end users play with the new toys. The pool players get a sneak preview, the manufacturers get consumer feedback and the buyers can see first hand what products and cue models are actually driving interest instead of trusting a salesperson to point you in the right direction. Naturally you can still have your reps write wholesale orders, but most of the actual business gets done in the bar anyway.

There's no better way to get the public interested in buying your products than to let them test drive. All you have to do is walk into an Apple Store to see this in action.


Just my $0.02.

I did not find it scathing. I think he is recognizing that the BCA has a tough row to hoe, yet they are still trying to move forward. He gave credit to the president of the BCA for his effort, but he also stated that the BCA needs to take baby steps before they can achieve their goal.

I think Mike P. knows *exactly* what's going on with the BCA trade show. He realizes that some things could be handled differently, maybe other things they could do like you mentioned about opening it up to the public for example.

The same advice could be given to the ABP.

Nothing can happen overnight. As we all know, you have to crawl before you walk!

If I had my way, I'd say shut the BCA down and let Mark Griffin handle things from here on in as far as having a governmental body representing North America. Don't get me started about the WPA, either. LOL

 

[Mr. Bond]

a little less talk and a lot more action

 

[geno]

Mike, I couldn't agree with you more in the fact that that article slammed the BCA.

You're being sarcastic, right? That editorial was pretty scathing in my opinion. He slams the show, he slams the org and closes by saying "The bottom line is that the BCA, and the billiard industry, will continue to meet projections as long as it continues to aim low". I'm not saying that he doesn't have valid points, I just found it to be surprisingly harsh coming from Mike P.

In my opinion, if the BCA wants to increase attendance, they should open it up to the public. Let the end users play with the new toys. The pool players get a sneak preview, the manufacturers get consumer feedback and the buyers can see first hand what products and cue models are actually driving interest instead of trusting a salesperson to point you in the right direction. Naturally you can still have your reps write wholesale orders, but most of the actual business gets done in the bar anyway.

There's no better way to get the public interested in buying your products than to let them test drive. All you have to do is walk into an Apple Store to see this in action.


Just my $0.02.

 

[The Saw]

I'm with ya geno....

The biggest thing that needs to happen to professional pool is taking the "pool player mentality" out of it.....

For pool to really take off someone needs to sell the dream to a management giant like IMG. IMG made the PGA tour, WWE, and nascar. Guess who manages professional snooker? Yes, IMG.

 

[Scott Lee]

JAM...There's a significant reason for this. The BCA show is not open to the public. It is a TRADE show for people in the industry. It's not about players, leagues, tournaments, or anything that interests the general public...unlike Hopkins SBE, which is a consumer trade show of sorts, and includes all of the above items. Another reason there would be no 'stream' is that this is a wholesale show, and buyers/sellers don't want the general public to know what they're paying. This is JMO.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

There's never much publicity for this BCA show that I've seen on the Internet. It would be nice to see a stream of some sort or a video clip from an on-the-scene attendee! :smile:

 

[JoeW]

Geno has a great idea. He is talking about a truly professional organization where the goal is the improvement of the sport. The first problem is how to get everyone together without goring anyone's ox (for now).

I think this is done by addressing something that interests everyone, such as a general meeting, with vendors, presentations, and demonstrations. The agenda could include how to identify members, insuring that no one group can take over, and a few public goals that everyone would get behind such as how to encouarge young people to turn pro.

A public statment on goals and objective of the organization would go far to increasing membership.

What if -- only a few pros and many amateurs joined and these people set some expected guidelines for all tournaments. Would it influence how tournaments are run?

 

[ceebee]

God, what a concept... just Imagine...

 

[jay helfert]

American Cue-Sport Needs a REAL Governing body. Not one that governs leagues as they do this themselves but one that Governs Professional and Amateur Tours and/or Independent Events. This needs to be something the Players (Amateur and Professional), the Promoters, the Room Owners and the Sponsors can all join and get behind.

So far we know this:
The BCA (not the BCA-POOL LEAGUE) is not in a position to do this.
Mark Griffin has not done this and does not seem very interested in doing it but would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Barry Berhman is not the person to do this but would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Definately not the APA, BCA-Pool League, TAP, Valley, ACS or any Pool League.
Greg Sullivan has shown no interest in doing this but just like Mark G he would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Allen Hopkins has shown no interest in doing this but just like Mark G and Greg S he would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Mike Janis has tried this but didn't pull it off but would more than likely get behind it and support it.
The ABP is trying to do it in some form from a pro players perspective but they would be better off joining something like this than doing it themselves.

I also believe some promoters and tours would also get behind this like Mike Zuglans Joss tour, the Maxim Tour, TK's SE Tour, The US Open, The Derby City Classic, Allen Hopkins Super Billiard Expo, the WPBA and possibly a few others.

The organization would simply be a governing body that would have many purposes. Some of those purposes would be:

A: To govern the rules
B: Settle Grievences
C: Set Standards
D: Provide Advertising Support
E: Attract New Sponsors
F: Attract TV Deals
G: Keep Records
H: Hold a Real Trade Show
I: Attract Industry Sponsors/Members
J: Hold Large National Events
H: Hold Many Regional/Local Events
J: Provide a clear path from Amateur to professional player
K: Provide a national event register for its members to attend
L-Z: I am sure exist but the elude me right now. Please feel free to make suggestions.

Now believe it or not we already have all of the above and much more. It is just that they are separate organizations or entities. As an example of this: AZ Billiards does a pretty good job of keeping player stats and tournament records and the BCA does a trade show and has members/sponsors and the WPA governs rules and each individual tour sets there own standards and The Super Billiards Expo, Derby City and the US Open hold large national events and the regional tours hold many regional/local events, Matt Braun has quite a few TV and production deals.

WE KNOW ALL OF THIS and IT IS A FACT. Just go with me on the above and accept it for the sake of this thread and cue-sports in the USA.

The QUESTIONS ARE:
How do we tie them all together?
Who is willing to tie them all together?
How much money will it take to tie them all together?
How do we convince everyone mentioned above that it would be in there best interest to tie them all together?

Very good analysis here Geno. A lot of food for thought. It would be nice to see someone(s) take the ball and run with it. :thumbup2:

 

[justnum]

A: To govern the rules
B: Settle Grievences
C: Set Standards
D: Provide Advertising Support
E: Attract New Sponsors
F: Attract TV Deals
G: Keep Records
H: Hold a Real Trade Show
I: Attract Industry Sponsors/Members
J: Hold Large National Events
H: Hold Many Regional/Local Events
J: Provide a clear path from Amateur to professional player
K: Provide a national event register for its members to attend
L-Z: I am sure exist but the elude me right now. Please feel free to make suggestions.

Overly optimistic and unrealistic. This agenda requires a large bankroll to put together proposals and burdens a large number of people to deliver. Your asking what could be done with lots of money to do things better than what has already been done. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel and invent something to keep the wheel from falling off the car.

There isn't a lot of money to spend. A more realistic proposal is to implement readily available tools to enhance fan-player interaction, player-player interaction and sponsor-player interaction. Most good business people enjoy people that aren't overly ambitious with their ideas, because most good business people know what it is like to deal with someone that is inflating their growth potential. Pool players live practical lives usually and maybe they need some brushing up on talking to sponsors and investors but in general their attitude is honest and realistic. Though at times they lack a little in the creativity area at times.

I'd line up some sponsors to talk with the pros. It wouldn't be over a pool match though. They might have to impress sponsors differently and no they wouldn't be allowed to use their children to influence the sponsors.

 

[Georgia Boy]

American Cue-Sport Needs a REAL Governing body. Not one that governs leagues as they do this themselves but one that Governs Professional and Amateur Tours and/or Independent Events. This needs to be something the Players (Amateur and Professional), the Promoters, the Room Owners and the Sponsors can all join and get behind.

So far we know this:
The BCA (not the BCA-POOL LEAGUE) is not in a position to do this.
Mark Griffin has not done this and does not seem very interested in doing it but would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Barry Berhman is not the person to do this but would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Definately not the APA, BCA-Pool League, TAP, Valley, ACS or any Pool League.
Greg Sullivan has shown no interest in doing this but just like Mark G he would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Allen Hopkins has shown no interest in doing this but just like Mark G and Greg S he would more than likely get behind it and support it.
Mike Janis has tried this but didn't pull it off but would more than likely get behind it and support it.
The ABP is trying to do it in some form from a pro players perspective but they would be better off joining something like this than doing it themselves.

I also believe some promoters and tours would also get behind this like Mike Zuglans Joss tour, the Maxim Tour, TK's SE Tour, The US Open, The Derby City Classic, Allen Hopkins Super Billiard Expo, the WPBA and possibly a few others.

The organization would simply be a governing body that would have many purposes. Some of those purposes would be:

A: To govern the rules
B: Settle Grievences
C: Set Standards
D: Provide Advertising Support
E: Attract New Sponsors
F: Attract TV Deals
G: Keep Records
H: Hold a Real Trade Show
I: Attract Industry Sponsors/Members
J: Hold Large National Events
H: Hold Many Regional/Local Events
J: Provide a clear path from Amateur to professional player
K: Provide a national event register for its members to attend
L-Z: I am sure exist but the elude me right now. Please feel free to make suggestions.

Now believe it or not we already have all of the above and much more. It is just that they are separate organizations or entities. As an example of this: AZ Billiards does a pretty good job of keeping player stats and tournament records and the BCA does a trade show and has members/sponsors and the WPA governs rules and each individual tour sets there own standards and The Super Billiards Expo, Derby City and the US Open hold large national events and the regional tours hold many regional/local events, Matt Braun has quite a few TV and production deals.

WE KNOW ALL OF THIS and IT IS A FACT. Just go with me on the above and accept it for the sake of this thread and cue-sports in the USA.

The QUESTIONS ARE:
How do we tie them all together?
Who is willing to tie them all together?
How much money will it take to tie them all together?
How do we convince everyone mentioned above that it would be in there best interest to tie them all together?

Geno
Excellent post and real food for thought. If Pool is to make any significant forward progress it needs what you mention in your post, I would add.

The organization needs to be more, it needs to become a brand like the PGA, NBA, NFL.

We need to attract sponsorship you are right, but we also need it from outside of the industry.

We need to get viewers from outside the traditional audience interested. One way may be to have more events like the Mosconi Cup. You can pitch far more than simply a 'Pool Tournament', it's Europe v USA, it's Team Play, it's Patriotism, it gives fans something more to support than simply individual players. If you saw the one in London in December, I don't think there is any doubt that it was a complete success. It aired all over the World, except of course here. Those crowds and their participation was awesome and thats what sponsors want to see.

The questions you pose are good ones, not sure I have the answer to any of them, but I would be willing to get involved in anything that moves the game forward, time willing of course.

 

[jalapus logan]

It all starts with cooperation. This has not yet been demonstrated. I do agree with your assessment completely. Thanks for that.

 

[ShootingRazbone]

Overly optimistic and unrealistic. This agenda requires a large bankroll to put together proposals and burdens a large number of people to deliver. Your asking what could be done with lots of money to do things better than what has already been done. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel and invent something to keep the wheel from falling off the car.

There isn't a lot of money to spend. A more realistic proposal is to implement readily available tools to enhance fan-player interaction, player-player interaction and sponsor-player interaction. Most good business people enjoy people that aren't overly ambitious with their ideas, because most good business people know what it is like to deal with someone that is inflating their growth potential. Pool players live practical lives usually and maybe they need some brushing up on talking to sponsors and investors but in general their attitude is honest and realistic. Though at times they lack a little in the creativity area at times.

I'd line up some sponsors to talk with the pros. It wouldn't be over a pool match though. They might have to impress sponsors differently and no they wouldn't be allowed to use their children to influence the sponsors.

Very good post here. It is exactly what I thought as well.....It will take someone with a billion dollars. Someone to be able to grease all of the greedy open palms out there who don't care about any of this as long as their making their score every year. Why would Berry roll over and bow to a governing body taking a piece of his action. Why would Allen give away 30% of his take for the "cause". Because that is what it will take when you don't have 80,000 people show up every tournament and watch. The PGA, NFL, Nascar and the NBA and MLB alike are Multi-Multi-Billion dollar industries. Pool is not even remotely close. It's a mess.

 

[Smooth]

thoughts

I think the most appropriate correlation to one of the big pro sports would be MLB.

Major league system - pro players playing in big events once a month.... including international events. Heavy promotion, high quality streaming, pros required to commentate, etc... The more tables streamed the better.... think NASCAR and developing fan loyalty to specific drivers (players). It would help motivate some of the pros to think of more than just themselves and to think of consequences BEFORE they speak.... more fans = more sponsors... AZ, Facebook and other social media would be tapped into.... powerful stuff nowadays.

Minor league system - regional events held on the other 3 weeks of the month. Structured to allow pros to play alongside semi-pros & the up & comers from league system. i.e. - pros play amongst themselves until final 6 left, same with semi-pros/league all stars but down to final 2.... final 8 combined to finish it off.

Little League system - league rankings allow eligibility into regional events (ie must be SL7 or better) Players must have a league affiliation(s) to play in regionals - entry fees paid by league... in return, must wear league apparel for advertising (think back of shirt on streams), league would be identified along with the player's name on streams, etc. Once a week participation (or less if team is OK with it) is not that big a deal.... dealing with the drama admittedly would be. The team aspects versus these "free agents" would have to be managed.... not an issue with APA, which has a Masters division, but for leagues without a "next-level" option, or in areas where it doesn't exist, it will need to be addressed. Some of these leagues take their weekly stuff VERY seriously.... we wouldn't want to turn people off... the goal is to increase league involvement. It would also help the leagues by eliminating a lot of the upper-level sandbagging, which drives some league players crazy. Leagues would determine on their own which players to "sponsor" each week. Full color, weekly "newsletters" distributed to each PLAYER (not team) with a local, regional, and national/international who's who and what's what would help tremendously in building fan support for upper level pool. Upcoming events, a streaming guide, who is playing, an avenue for sponsor ads, etc. The leagues HAVE to be tapped into.... they are a huge piece of the overall puzzle. I have no idea how to deal with the remote areas of the country without leagues.

The governing body being discussed above would handle all the coordination/rankings, etc.

Just some thoughts. Thanx for reading.