An Unfortunate Incident Involving J&D (Jim Lee) Cues

I need the other side of the argument before I post an opinion. So far, it sounds like you're getting the run around but there are usually three sides to a story. This constitutes one.
 
I'll believe it until proven otherwise. Pretty sure he still owes Chris Tate an evaluation cue from a few years ago, so he was due for another issue. That thread got pulled by the way. They're good at hiding cuemaker/casemaker/dealer blunders on this forum, which makes it difficult for the average user to research a potential business dealing. I wouldn't say it's rampant, but if the cuemaker/casemaker/dealer complains (whether they're right or not), the moderators tend to blindly side with them.

It's hard to blame them with the volume I'm assuming they get... but there has to be a better way.
 
Jim has installed leather wraps on 3 of my cues. He has done excellent wok and I was very pleased with the results. All three were done at different times, and each one was completed in a week or two at the most. I am so sorry to read your post. It sounds like you've been a very patient man and I sympahtize with you. As others have stated there are several sides to a story. Hopefully we'll hear from Jim and perhaps get a better understanding of the situation.
 
Wow...sorry to hear about this. To add on a separate unrelated situation as of today let's just say he is not the only person to get a runaround about a custom cue with excuses OR lack of responses. I am not going to hijack your thread with the details, but let's just say you aren't the only one today having a problem on a cue order with Jim and no I am not talking about me.
 
Sure, there's always more than one side to every story but I believe Randy on the date he sent the cue and the amount of money that went with it. It doesn't seem that he would just make up something like that because it would be too easy to prove/disprove. He has set the stage... now the CM can have his say. We are all waiting.

If it's truly been about six months and the OP still doesn't have his cue back, that's outrageous.
 
Slim Limpy said:
An Unfortunate Business Deal Involving Jim Lee (J&D Custom Cues)

Hello,
while I am not a highly regular poster to AZ, I have been involved in various purchases, sales, and raffles—all successful until now. I have acknowledged publicly when the deals have gone especially well. Now I find myself in a dilemma similar to many other members recently on AZ—a deal has gone sour involving an otherwise apparently very well respected cuemaker/refinisher serving the AZ community. I have chosen, however, to reveal the identity of the cuemaker due to the blatantly poor business practices the cuemaker has engaged in during the course of our business proceedings.

On November 3rd, 2010 (last November!) I sent an eight-point ebony and BEM cue to Jim Lee for refinishing and a rewrap. The cost was $175 total (return postage was to be included in the cost) and Jim cashed my personal check for the total within a few days of receiving it on the 8th of November.

We worked out the details of leather choice over the next couple of weeks (obviously I have copies in my mailbox of all correspondence) and on December 17th I was notified that the 3rd coat of clear was being applied and the wrap was chosen. Pictures of the cue were sent along with the emails at this time and everything appeared to be going smoothly. Every indication at this point appeared to be that the cue would be on its way shortly.

Now is when things started to changed, subtly at first, so it took me awhile before I started to worry things didn’t quite seem as right as I thought they were.

I started to have to initiate all conversation. No information was forthcoming unless I emailed and asked for info.

By the end of January, after sending a PM stating, “Any issues with this cue? Now I am beginning to get worried”, I was notified that “All is fine my friend, just been super swamped with walk ins and repairs, and your rings are little boogers, but I will not let them win!”

His excuse at this point continued to be that he was having trouble with the rings. Yes, rings can create a problem on a cue—they can raise or cause bubbling of the finish, etc. , but this was when things started to get a little unbelievable.

Now I had to practically force communication with him: On Feb. 16, 2011 I sent him this message (I was beginning question whether he actually had possession of my cue by this time or whether it was still in serviceable condition):

“Hello,
Jim, please let me know the condition of my cue at this time. If you are unable to service the cue, please keep the $175 and just send me the cue back so I can get it service locally . . . etc., etc. I just want my cue back, etc., etc. . . ”

Again, his response was to delay.

On March 1st his reply to my need to know a finish date was to delay again by saying it was oh so close to completion and he would have it done within a week.

On March 17th my patience had run out and I sent this PM:

“Hello,
Please send my cue back immediately. At this point, all services have been prepaid and there is no question of a craftsman’s lien or any such thing on your part. Should I not receive a legitimate tracking number by Monday, March 21st, I will consider the cue stolen property and proceed from there. [ . . .].” , etc., etc.

His response was that he had an emergency (sorry, all of our correspondence was business related and I have no idea about the nature of this emergency, and as a customer have no real need to know about it—it’s not my business) and he stated he had no intention of returning the cue until he was finished with it. However, Jim also mentioned that the “emergency” had ended and he would be getting back to the shop shortly.

I stand by the statements in my PM—it’s now theft. He has no legal right to maintain possession of my cue against my clear directives to have the cue, no matter what the condition, returned to me.

Ok, so given the “emergency”, and knowing that at this point I could only hope he would remain true to his word, on March 21st I wrote this PM to Jim Lee:

“Hello,
At this point, this item has risen to the top of my to-do list—normally reserved for far more important things. If you can’t complete the job in 2-3 weeks, or something keeps you from completing the job, send it back. I live in Wisconsin—there is an established cuemaker in every county in the state. You’ve managed to totally confuse at least half a dozen small business people and another half dozen friends and acquaintances with the delay. We’ve imagined every scenario possible and impossible. Three weeks is certainly fair as far as I’m concerned—and pretty much my limit. That that point I will consider the cue a total loss and take it from there—I’ll have nothing to lose.”

At that point I saw no purpose to pursue this any further through normal communication channels—from here I am left with only legal recourses—report the theft to the Indiana Police and set up a small claims hearing in Gary, Indiana when I go on vacation to central Indiana this summer. Since the claims appeal will be in Indiana, it will be near impossible for Jim Lee, who lives in Indiana, to avoid the court appearance or whatever pre-trial meetings are required. I am only a few hours away from Gary and might rather enjoy the legal proceedings as a diversionary activity to get me away from my work-a-day world this summer.

The money involved along with the value of the cue (retail was about $750 when originally purchased—probably $450 or so on the used market and the $175 I sent Jim for the refinish and rewrap) isn’t the real issue for me—I only wish this were the biggest worry I have to deal with in my life. I believe if you never take chances and show blind trust towards others, you may never be taken, but then again you will never chance upon all the good deals and worthwhile situations that I have come across in my lifetime as a result of putting your trust in others who you may not be totally familiar with. And you gotta keep things in perspective. I’ll be a lot sadder and more depressed when I eventually lose my 22 year old cat (Timmy-Tam Tabammerrammer Tim-Tam Jam Cat) than I could ever be because I lost this cue.


Amazingly, on 4-21-2011, two weeks ago from today, I received this email from Jim Lee—and if I recall correctly, other than his original emails soliciting prompt pre-payment for the services, this was the only email I received from Jim without having to prompt him for info concerning the cue’s condition:

Randy,

I am wrapping your cue tomorrow and your cue Will ship out 1st thing Monday morning. It has been a long jounrney and I appreciate your patience.
The cue is looking better than new and I know you will be pleased.
Take care,
Jim Lee

So, it’s two weeks later and no cue and no more info concerning the transaction. My plan is now to proceed with legal and court action, at my leisure.

Here’s my question: Since mistakes do happen, wouldn’t the appropriate response be to make good on the mistake “in kind”? He is a cuemaker for goshsakes. After 20 years in the business, this can’t be the first major mistake he’s made. Wouldn’t offering to make good on the error be more cost effective than suffering the potential loss of future income due to the consequences of a posting like this?

After fixing, reconditioning, and re-selling vintage Singer sewing machines as a money making hobby for the last 18 years, I can say from experience that it is almost always possible to make good in kind on a simple human mistake, but almost impossible to make good in kind due to poor business practices. It’s near impossible to recover lost profits or opportunity cost due to a business’s lost goodwill.

So I’ve been on both sides now: I’ve acknowledged in postings the superior treatment I’ve received from cuemakers on AZ, and have also shown enough guts to report publicly to the AZ community on a cuemaker whose business practices would get a failing grade from just about any customer with normal business expectations.

As soon as I discussed the last email with a co-worker, he said, “Well, maybe now you will get your cue.” I said, “I’ll believe it when I see it.” Well, I haven’t seen it. I’m as baffled as I was 4 or 5 months ago when I realized things appeared headed downhill. Your guess is as good as mine. This is definitely the strangest business transaction I have ever engaged myself in. I now feel it’s my obligation, regardless of whether I ever receive my cue back again or not, to inform other AZB’ers of this transaction and the difficulties I have experienced in trying to retake possession of a cue I own and can no longer shoot pool with.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this posting.

Randy
a.k.a. Slim Limpy
May 8, 2011

P.S.: I am posting this before going to work on Monday, so I may not be able to respond to any comments, feedback, or fallout, whichever the case may be, until I return home in the middle afternoon.
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It is infuriating that according to what you've stated, your property is being held hostage and Jim refuses to return it. If this is the case, let others beware.

What upsets me is a thread similar to this was removed by the AZ moderators a few years ago. This is the danger of removing threads that are derogatory towards poor business practices. The moderators should remove insulting posts, but to remove legitimate complaints just because they are derogatory is a public disservice.

I hope Jim does respond and corrects these issues.

Chris
 
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I know of another az'er who sent 2 cues to Jim prior to christmas for his leather wrap special, a refinish on 1 and a new shaft for the other. Up until a couple weeks ago, Jim still had his cues. I pm'd Jim on this guy's behalf and suggested he contact this customer of his. He did and this mutual customer of ours said it seemed as though Jim was mmmaking good on the deal. After reading this, I wonder if Jim was just giving him the runaround as well... We'll see if he chimes in...
 
cue refinishing

I have a real good friend of mine that has been making cues for almost 40 years. If there are any players out there that liked the old Meuccis, I suggest you give Mike and Scott Erwin a call. His cues are all under valued and 1 at a time. You can't beat his repair work and prices or have him build you a custom cue...do it now while his cues are sure to go up in value. His number is: 662-562-9009, and tell him Duke sent you. Dukes-Q-Stop ....you wont regret it......Duke...
 
Glad to see your post. Will like to see the rebuttal also. This is one thing i learned a while back always keep all communications. I hope you get your cue back soon. mid
 
You can be sure

that you are only getting the tip of the iceberg from Jim. There is probably a lot more to his side of the story than you will ever know. Having a cuemaker go 'bad' on his word is almost as bad as having a good money game go sour.
 
duker said:
I have a real good friend of mine that has been making cues for almost 40 years. If there are any players out there that liked the old Meuccis, I suggest you give Mike and Scott Erwin a call. His cues are all under valued and 1 at a time. You can't beat his repair work and prices or have him build you a custom cue...do it now while his cues are sure to go up in value. His number is: 662-562-9009, and tell him Duke sent you. Dukes-Q-Stop ....you wont regret it......Duke...
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Ummm. . . we now return to our regular schedulled programming . . .
 
I saw this movie some time ago. Then it was called Dave Albrecht in case anyone forgot. Same delays and in the end he just sold everything and disappeared.
 
madfox said:
I saw this movie some time ago. Then it was called Dave Albrecht in case anyone forgot. Same delays and in the end he just sold everything and disappeared.
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I hope this is not the case here. I know Jim has done a lot of deals on AZ and I have seen some nice cues come out of his shop. Morning bump for some more info possibly from Jim's side on this and maybe all other orders that might be behind.
 
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