Analyzing a rack (straight pool)

D

dearnold

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So it's pretty easy to understand wired balls, throw, etc. on the outside of a rack. But some times the ball I was intending to pocket doesn't go while I watch in amazement as a couple of others do. So I'm left asking myself, Why didn't I see those? Is there some definitive material on analyzing large racks and clusters? I understand that at some point, the complexity of the ball interactions surpass the ability of the brain, but I have a suspicion I'm missing out on some basic info.

Regards
 
"Dead balls are easier to make, then to find." -- C. Murphy


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dearnold said:
So it's pretty easy to understand wired balls, throw, etc. on the outside of a rack. But some times the ball I was intending to pocket doesn't go while I watch in amazement as a couple of others do. So I'm left asking myself, Why didn't I see those? Is there some definitive material on analyzing large racks and clusters? I understand that at some point, the complexity of the ball interactions surpass the ability of the brain, but I have a suspicion I'm missing out on some basic info.

Regards
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It's pretty easy to overlook a dead shot in the pack, especially when you're anxious and rush the pack inspection process.

When you find one that is aimed directly at a pocket, start working your way back towards your "contact" ball, looking for balls in the chain that will interfere with it's intended direction. When you have done that reverse the process starting with the contact ball and working your way to the object ball, again looking for any possible interference.

Aside from combinations, expand your search for kisses, caroms, and throw shots. When you are unsure of a shot that will open the pack, try playing a safe that ensures that your opponent doesn't get opportunity at it by breaking it up or denying access to it, he may have better vision, or be less risk adverse than you. :)

J
 
dearnold...Easiest way to learn about those things, imo, is to take a lesson from a pro straight pool player...someone like Ray Martin, Mike Sigel, or John Schmidt, just to name a few. You might learn that stuff from an instructor, but they had better be well versed in 14.1. As far as how throw affects frozen balls, etc., a good instructor can teach you that.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

dearnold said:
So it's pretty easy to understand wired balls, throw, etc. on the outside of a rack. But some times the ball I was intending to pocket doesn't go while I watch in amazement as a couple of others do. So I'm left asking myself, Why didn't I see those? Is there some definitive material on analyzing large racks and clusters? I understand that at some point, the complexity of the ball interactions surpass the ability of the brain, but I have a suspicion I'm missing out on some basic info.

Regards
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
dearnold...Easiest way to learn about those things, imo, is to take a lesson from a pro straight pool player...someone like Ray Martin, Mike Sigel, or John Schmidt, just to name a few. You might learn that stuff from an instructor, but they had better be well versed in 14.1. As far as how throw affects frozen balls, etc., a good instructor can teach you that.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

All good information from everyone. Thanks for the ideas!! But I'm wondering what written material exists out there. I found Phil Capelle's straight pool book a bit lacking in this area. I have seen bits and pieces all over the place, but I'm just curious if someone has put together a concerntrated bit of material specific to analyzing racks and large clusters.

Thanks again!

If I could only get some lessons from Ray Martin, Mike Sigel or John Schmidt!! Do they even do that?!? I'd pay those guys just to shoot some pool with them and get my ass kicked. I wonder if I could get on Hopkins agenda! ;)
 
dearnold said:
So it's pretty easy to understand wired balls, throw, etc. on the outside of a rack. But some times the ball I was intending to pocket doesn't go while I watch in amazement as a couple of others do. So I'm left asking myself, Why didn't I see those? Is there some definitive material on analyzing large racks and clusters? I understand that at some point, the complexity of the ball interactions surpass the ability of the brain, but I have a suspicion I'm missing out on some basic info.

Regards
Click to expand...

This may seem obvious, but you have to play a lot. There really are no short cuts to learning this stuff. Theory will help but it will only get you so far.

When you try a pack shot, it's important to make a note of what happened. Did the ball overcut or undercut? How far off were you? Just because another ball went into a pocket, don't assume that it's a shot you missed. It might have caught a strange or random kiss into a pocket.

You should study kiss shots and carom shots. Learn what happens when they're frozen and when they're not. Learn what happens when three or more balls are frozen. There are things you can set up and and then study the effect. It will take time at the table. There is no substitute for that.
 
dearnold said:
So it's pretty easy to understand wired balls, throw, etc. on the outside of a rack. But some times the ball I was intending to pocket doesn't go while I watch in amazement as a couple of others do. So I'm left asking myself, Why didn't I see those? Is there some definitive material on analyzing large racks and clusters? I understand that at some point, the complexity of the ball interactions surpass the ability of the brain, but I have a suspicion I'm missing out on some basic info.

Regards
Click to expand...
Sometimes there are "clearance" shots in which a ball that's in the way of an interior ball is moved prior to passage of the ball that's pocketed. Some multi-ball combinations involving kisses change the direction of the ball that contacts the object ball and that can make you miss. Some frozen kiss shots are subject to the "ten times fuller" system of judging kiss lines for frozen balls.

For the clearance shots, you can get some ideas from standard trick shots -- they really are good for something. The other things have been written about if you are the sort of person who takes to book learning. As Scott alluded to, many instructors will not be totally familiar with the kisses, combinations and caroms you have to know at 14.1 to get you out of tight spots, but some are. Such shots are at least as important at one pocket.
 
dearnold said:
If I could only get some lessons from Ray Martin, Mike Sigel or John Schmidt!! Do they even do that?!? I'd pay those guys just to shoot some pool with them and get my ass kicked. I wonder if I could get on Hopkins agenda! ;)
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Yes they do! I had the great honor of spending a day with John Schmidt when he owned a pool room up in Wheeling, WV. John is a great guy and he gave me information and things to work on that are helping my game.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Sometimes there are "clearance" shots in which a ball that's in the way of an interior ball is moved prior to passage of the ball that's pocketed. Some multi-ball combinations involving kisses change the direction of the ball that contacts the object ball and that can make you miss. Some frozen kiss shots are subject to the "ten times fuller" system of judging kiss lines for frozen balls.

For the clearance shots, you can get some ideas from standard trick shots -- they really are good for something. The other things have been written about if you are the sort of person who takes to book learning. As Scott alluded to, many instructors will not be totally familiar with the kisses, combinations and caroms you have to know at 14.1 to get you out of tight spots, but some are. Such shots are at least as important at one pocket.
Click to expand...

Yes, I like books. Which ones have the best info on this subject.

How cool is that I'm actually talking to Bob Jewett!! AZ Billiards Rocks! :thumbup:
 
larrynj1 said:
ray martin's 100 critical shots covers the subject well.
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Yes, Martin's book covers 14.1 situations well. Robert Byrne's books cover some kisses/caroms/combinations in more detail than Martin. You should be sure to get Byrne's "Complete Book of Pool Shots" which has perhaps three dozen ideas related to the more complicated shots you need to master to continue runs.

I've written several articles about these shots. An archive is available at: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html
Here is one about learning how the separation on close combinations affects the angle of the object ball: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2007-08.pdf In particular notice the last point in the article, which is about this shot:
CropperCapture[4].png
If the 7 is touching the 6 and not the 9, the 9 will be thrown one way, but if the 7 is touching the 9 and not the 6 the 9 will be thrown the other way. This kind of situation often comes up in the early part of the rack or during safety play.
 
Babe Cranfield's book on 14.1 is very good. All three of these champion 14.1 players give lessons. Ray Martin is in the Tampa Bay FL area, Mike Sigel is in the Baltimore/Frederick MD area, and as mentioned by Rufus, John Schmidt owns a poolroom in Wheeling WV. If you're in the Bay area of CA, Bob Jewett would be a great choice to learn straight pool from, and I travel the entire country (but you already knew that)!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

dearnold said:
If I could only get some lessons from Ray Martin, Mike Sigel or John Schmidt!! Do they even do that?!? I'd pay those guys just to shoot some pool with them and get my ass kicked. I wonder if I could get on Hopkins agenda! ;)
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DogsPlayingPool said:
Here are a couple of neat shots.

This one by Fats from "The Hustler" at the beginning of the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16VriO8ZQkg&feature=related

And this one, an actual shot that began Irving Crane's 150 and out against Joe Balsis (at the 2 minute mark):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOSbZaQADc8&feature=related

He really looked this one over good before shooting, no re-takes allowed here.;)
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the one by "fats" mystifies those that dont know but i have seen diagrams on how to set it up
if any one has the diagram discussing it would help the op

the one by crane ive never seen
OMG:thumbup::thumbup:
 
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