Anniversary, GC or Diamond?

sellingboe

Active member
It would be better if you had made a poll to count the number of votes.

I vote: GC.
Maybe, but I think polls are too black and white. Read all the responses and there are all kinds of qualifying statements "if [home use] X, if [playing in tournaments] Y." I'm looking for nuance and polls don't capture that.
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have owned a Gold Crown for over 40 years. But if I was not attached a little to the table I would sell it and get a Diamond.
The reason is it seams most serious tournaments are run on Diamonds and they play different from the Gold Crown. If I was never going to play tournaments again I don't know which way I would go if I was about to purchase one. There are things I like about all three tables better than the others.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
To me there is no contest
Diamond Blue Label one piece slate
Loved Anniversaries and GCs most of my life... but I never ignored their design flaws
I love being able to lay my cue flat any place on a Diamond
 

sellingboe

Active member
To me there is no contest
Diamond Blue Label one piece slate
Loved Anniversaries and GCs most of my life... but I never ignored their design flaws
I love being able to lay my cue flat any place on a Diamond
Love the comment, focused entirely on playability. No qualifying statements here. Flat out direct and one dimensional opinion: Diamond, one piece slate. So I'm curious what are the flaws are in the Anniversary and GC from a playability perspective? My criteria weigh heavily toward playability, but aesthetics and nostalgia make up for minor playability issues. Lots of people love the way the Anniversary and GC play.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Love the comment, focused entirely on playability. No qualifying statements here. Flat out direct and one dimensional opinion: Diamond, one piece slate. So I'm curious what are the flaws are in the Anniversary and GC from a playability perspective? My criteria weigh heavily toward playability, but aesthetics and nostalgia make up for minor playability issues. Lots of people love the way the Anniversary and GC play.
Brunswick pockets....got to jack up over them
Score counters...grabs your cue...sometimes your knuckles
Name plates....sometimes they make you knuckles bleed
Slate quality varies...sometimes it’s brunstone
Rubber....they lost me as a customer on Brunswick Superspeed....the GCIIIs had horrible rubber....
....I paid top buck wholesale twice..got rubber that hit like cheap $40 rubber from Asia....pretty sure it was,
 

phreaticus

Active member
The Red Label with Super Speed will bank like a GC.
Really? I’m re-entering the game after an extended orbit in other galaxy’s. Still learning all the (new to me) Diamond table stuf... I hadn’t heard/seen this info yet. Great to know, a Diamond 9 with tight pockets that plays like a GC = ideal for me.

Thx ✌️
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Brunswick pockets....got to jack up over them
Score counters...grabs your cue...sometimes your knuckles
Name plates....sometimes they make you knuckles bleed
Slate quality varies...sometimes it’s brunstone
Rubber....they lost me as a customer on Brunswick Superspeed....the GCIIIs had horrible rubber....
....I paid top buck wholesale twice..got rubber that hit like cheap $40 rubber from Asia....pretty sure it was,
Almost of these issues have been addressed since the GC4’s came out 20 years ago. The only one that still remains is the pocket casting design leads to many variations in the installation, and how high/angled/sharp the casting will be.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Almost of these issues have been addressed since the GC4’s came out 20 years ago. The only one that still remains is the pocket casting design leads to many variations in the installation, and how high/angled/sharp the casting will be.
Alex noticed that dead spots were showing up on the GCIVs after only three years old.
Greg is a pool player...I’m sticking with him...there’s room for improvement on a Diamond...but I think he‘ll keep improving...Brunswick used to care...before my time...now their tables are of minor importance to them.
John Brunswick is not sleeping peacefully. Their tables have gone downhill since the Klings and Arcades.
....and this is coming from a guy who’s game was raised on Monarchs and Anniversaries.
 

Kid Dynomite

Dennis (Michael) Wilson
Silver Member
Diamond because of all the design and manufacturing issues with the GC. I've whined about them in excruciating detail elsewhere. The players who bonded to GCs in the 60s through the 90s are unable to see those faults. Greg Sullivan did see those faults and designed his table to get rid of them.

The GC was designed and built poorly. Some models are better than others.
Those faults were minor like catch clothing on the metal corner pockets!

More importantly, Diamond messed up the roll out of the table and used rubber on the rails that was just not at the correct angle and made of a different formula that no one likes!

Additional, the rails are so heavy that they buckle the slate down on all four sides making it hard to level and play correct! They over built the rails and dymondwood weights a ton due to the impregnated resin!

The roll of the ball along the rails and the banking short is the achillles heal of diamond tables....

Not to mention the fact that the balls jump in the air after hitting the rail and hop due to the rail height and lose rail bolts.

I like the gold crown 3 because I prefer the brass corner castings . They have less glare from the table light! It is a easy fix , as many people have done powder coated finish on their own!

Kd



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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Gold Crown II

Easier to set up than a GC I.

Main frame side members run the full length of the table and the end frame members run in between.

Adjustable feet

Other than the P. Lam. clad rail caps, it's as low tech and as servicable as it gets.

I would suggest drop pockets rather than ball return.

You'll never want for more.
GC1 and 2 are exactly the same table, absolutely no difference between them, other than the finish, so how is a 2 easier to set up than a 1???
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Those faults were minor like catch clothing on the metal corner pockets!

More importantly, Diamond messed up the roll out of the table and used rubber on the rails that was just not at the correct angle and made of a different formula that no one likes!

Additional, the rails are so heavy that they buckle the slate down on all four sides making it hard to level and play correct! They over built the rails and dymondwood weights a ton due to the impregnated resin!

The roll of the ball along the rails and the banking short is the achillles heal of diamond tables....

Not to mention the fact that the balls jump in the air after hitting the rail and hop due to the rail height and lose rail bolts.

I like the gold crown 3 because I prefer the brass corner castings . They have less glare from the table light! It is a easy fix , as many people have done powder coated finish on their own!

Kd



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Very interesting post here and also very accurate. I've owned a Diamond Pro-Am with one piece slate for six years now. Four years ago I had it converted from red label to blue label rails ($$$). It is imperative that I regularly check the tightness of the rails (bolts underneath) every month or so. They tend to come loose and the table develops roll offs. One other nagging problem that may be due to rail design is the difficulty in banking a ball that is on the side rail within an inch of the side pocket. Being a Bank Pool player this bothers me since there are certain shots that are unavailable on my table that I can shoot on a GC.

This brings up a larger issue that has only been briefly discussed on here so far. That is how different the Diamond plays from the GC. Very, very different is all I can say about that. It's a whole new learning curve to learn how to bank on a Diamond. Not only do the rails bank shorter, but there are shots that can be made on a Diamond that would be impossible on a GC. I was always pretty good about adapting to different table conditions but this one took me a long time to figure out (and I've never quite figured out the intricacies of holding balls on long rail banks and shooting three rails accurately). Let me just say that imo the GC banks correctly and the Diamond does not.

I agree with Bob Jewett about all the flaws in the design of the GC's, most of them having to do with the top and outside of the table and little to do with the construction and framework that holds everything up. I've owned many GC's in my poolrooms and in my home. The frames are built of robust and solid woods (no plywood here) and the slates are mostly the original Italian slate. GC's are robust and heavy tables, made to be durable under severe playing conditions (as in heavy usage every day). I've seen GC's that still are going strong after fifty years in the same poolroom.

Yes, I've busted my knuckles on them, torn my pants on the metal edges and had trouble shooting over the pockets and scoring wheels. But I got used to playing on them and what stands out for me was that when they were set up by a proper mechanic that would play good (and roll true!) for a very long time. In fact they wouldn't even need releveling until you were ready to change the cloth. A good, solid GC plays as good or better than any other table ever made imo.

Back to my Diamond. With the 4.25" corners this is one tough ass table to play on and is a very popular practice table for the pros who come through here. I like to say that if you can get in stroke on this table then you can play on any table.

I guess my dream table would be a GCV if I could find a good one. I love the look of that table. Maybe someone can tell me if they play as good as they look.

P.S. I had a Brunswick Sport King set up by Ernesto in my home many years ago (also 4.25" corners) and it played damn good!
 
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JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very interesting post here and also very accurate. I've owned a Diamond Pro-Am with one piece slate for six years now. Four years ago I had it converted from red label to blue label rails ($$$). It is imperative that I regularly check the tightness of the rails (bolts underneath) every month or so. They tend to come loose and the table develops roll offs. One other nagging problem that may be due to rail design is the difficulty in banking a ball that is on the side rail within an inch of the side pocket. Being a Bank Pool player this bothers me since there are certain shots that are unavailable on my table that I can shoot on a GC.

This brings up a larger issue that has only been briefly discussed on here so far. That is how different the Diamond plays from the GC. Very, very different is all I can say about that. It's a whole new learning curve to learn how to bank on a Diamond. Not only do the rails bank shorter, but there are shots that can be made on a Diamond that would be impossible on a GC. I was always pretty good about adapting to different table conditions but this one took me a long time to figure out (and I've never quite figured out the intricacies of holding balls on long rail banks and shooting three rails accurately). Let me just say that imo the GC banks correctly and the Diamond does not.

I agree with Bob Jewett about all the flaws in the design of the GC's, most of them having to do with the top and outside of the table and little to do with the construction and framework that holds everything up. I've owned many GC's in my poolrooms and in my home. The frames are built of robust and solid woods (no plywood here) and the slates are mostly the original Italian slate. GC's are robust and heavy tables, made to be durable under severe playing conditions (as in heavy usage every day). I've seen GC's that still are going strong after fifty years in the same poolroom.

Yes, I've busted my knuckles on them, torn my pants on the metal edges and had trouble shooting over the pockets and scoring wheels. But I got used to playing on them and what stands out for me was that when they were set up by a proper mechanic that would play good (and roll true!) for a very long time. In fact they wouldn't even need releveling until you were ready to change the cloth. A good, solid GC plays as good or better than any other table ever made imo.

Back to my Diamond. With the 4.25" corners this is one tough ass table to play on and is a very popular practice table for the pros who come through here. I like to say that if you can get in stroke on this table then you can play on any table.

I guess my dream table would be a GCV if I could find a good one. I love the look of that table. Maybe someone can tell me if they play as good as they look.

P.S. I had a Brunswick Sport King set up by Ernesto in my home many years ago (also 4.25" corners) and it played damn good!
Do you find the Diamond to be more prone to double kissing on frozen to the rail banks , Jay ?
You cut the ball as a half ball and still double kiss ?
 

Kid Dynomite

Dennis (Michael) Wilson
Silver Member
Do you find the Diamond to be more prone to double kissing on frozen to the rail banks , Jay ?
You cut the ball as a half ball and still double kiss ?
Good point! The rubber is much harder and firmer on a diamond with its accu fast cushions versus the superspeed brand on the Brunswick.... .

Those pinch shots are now double kiss shots and many people have extreme difficulty going back and forth between brands....

I don't care which company gets the money! I care about the sport making equipment standard enough that play is identical regardless of brand and company! The manufacturers should be competing on looks and price and durability! Playability should be uniform and we all know that it is not....

Kd

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Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good point! The rubber is much harder and firmer on a diamond with its accu fast cushions versus the superspeed brand on the Brunswick.... .

Those pinch shots are now double kiss shots and many people have extreme difficulty going back and forth between brands....

I don't care which company gets the money! I care about the sport making equipment standard enough that play is identical regardless of brand and company! The manufacturers should be competing on looks and price and durability! Playability should be uniform and we all know that it is not....

Kd

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
Good post! And I agree with you in principle, but a strong part of me believes that much in the same way no two golf courses are the same, the differences in pool tables around the world should be considered a challenge, not a detriment. Challenge brings out greatness.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good point! The rubber is much harder and firmer on a diamond with its accu fast cushions versus the superspeed brand on the Brunswick.... .

Those pinch shots are now double kiss shots and many people have extreme difficulty going back and forth between brands....

I don't care which company gets the money! I care about the sport making equipment standard enough that play is identical regardless of brand and company! The manufacturers should be competing on looks and price and durability! Playability should be uniform and we all know that it is not....

Kd

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
Why should all tables be alike? Good players will figure out any table. I've been to DCC both with the Reds and the Blues and never heard any whining about either one.
 

Kid Dynomite

Dennis (Michael) Wilson
Silver Member
Good post! And I agree with you in principle, but a strong part of me believes that much in the same way no two golf courses are the same, the differences in pool tables around the world should be considered a challenge, not a detriment. Challenge brings out greatness.
I disagree! No one should have a home court advantage! Whether it is a climate advantage, cloth advantage , table advantage or balls advantage!

Imagine someone uses Russian pyramid tables or Chinese 8 ball tables.... The people familiar with them would have a advantage. The people who are blessed with diamond tables in their local pool hall have a advantage over east coast rooms with tons of brunswick tables given so many tournaments are using them.

Kd

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Kid Dynomite

Dennis (Michael) Wilson
Silver Member
Why should all tables be alike? Good players will figure out any table. I've been to DCC both with the Reds and the Blues and never heard any whining about either one.
Lol

Ask Scott Frost about derby.....

Cyclops balls debacle !

Blu dot red dot debacle!

Even Darren Appleton was upset and told me face to face at derby that he was concerned about the equipment. Balls and tables....

Pocket speed is totally different from brand to brand...

Kd

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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lol

Ask Scott Frost about derby.....

Cyclops balls debacle !

Blu dot red dot debacle!

Even Darren Appleton was upset and told me face to face at derby that he was concerned about the equipment. Balls and tables....

Pocket speed is totally different from brand to brand...

Kd

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
And yet the best player wins every year. Those that whine about tables are losers before they start. Never heard Efren(or any Filipino) say a word about tables. He adjusted and beat all their asses. Different brands will always play different. Some adjust, some bitch.
 
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