Any pro plays with 13mm shaft?

evergruven said:
maybe breaking the miscue limit might increase the chances of miscueing, but doesn't necessarily mean one can't successfully shoot well doing so?
Click to expand...
Here's a radical idea: test it.

Use a striped ball as your "cue ball" with the stripe vertical and centered toward you. Oriented that way the edge of the stripe is just about halfway from center to edge of the ball - try to hit past the edge of the stripe without miscuing, and check your chalk mark each time to confirm where you actually hit.

Players tend to think they're hitting closer to the center of their tip than they really are, especially with extreme spin.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Here's a radical idea: test it.

Use a striped ball as your "cue ball" with the stripe vertical and centered toward you. Oriented that way the edge of the stripe is just about halfway from center to edge of the ball - try to hit past the edge of the stripe without miscuing, and check your chalk mark each time to confirm where you actually hit.

Players tend to think they're hitting closer to the center of their tip than they really are, especially with extreme spin.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
On most stripe designs, the width of the strip is half of the width of the ball. That means that if you position the stripe so it is centered at you (either vertically or horizontally), the stripe tells you how far off center your tip can hit the ball if you use it as your cue ball.

A complicating issue is that it is not the center of the tip that hits the cue ball for spin shots -- it is the edge of the tip. When you are lined up for maximum side spin (on the object ball) most of your tip will be into the white of the cap on the object ball.

Edit: I suppose you turn the stripe 45-degrees to see where you can hit for equal amounts of side spin and draw or follow.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
14mm is about halfway from center to edge of the CB. How far from center ball do you think you can hit without miscuing? Have you ever tested it - say by using a striped ball with the stripe vertical and centered and then checking the chalk mark after shooting?

pj <- what's "walking the dog"?
chgo
Click to expand...

The room I growled up in, walking the dog ment shooting a ball that's frozen to the rail that's has to travel 7 or more diamonds down the rail to reach the pocket.

Some call any frozen rail shit "walking the dog".

Although, there are a couple other "walking the dog" meanings in pool.
 
Bob Jewett said:
On most stripe designs, the width of the strip is half of the width of the ball. ...
Click to expand...

I checked that a few years ago for 3 sets of balls made by Saluc. It was true for Brunswick Centennials but not for Super Aramith Pro balls or Aramith Tournament balls. On the latter two sets, the stripe, at about 1 5/16", was wider than half the ball.
 
AtLarge said:
I checked that a few years ago for 3 sets of balls made by Saluc. It was true for Brunswick Centennials but not for Super Aramith Pro balls or Aramith Tournament balls. On the latter two sets, the stripe, at about 1 5/16", was wider than half the ball.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reality check. That would be 58% of the ball instead of 50%, and the top or bottom would be at the 79% point versus the 75% point. That might still not miscue but I wouldn't trust it.

I suppose the difference for the Centennial design is that the number is not in the stripe so the "cap" needs a little more space than the "number in stripes" design. Or vice versa. I just measured a new set of Aramith Tournament balls and got 59% but the edge is a little uncertain.

I guess you could say for the wider stripes that as long as the chalk mark remains completely within the stripe you will probably be OK.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
14mm is about halfway from center to edge of the CB. How far from center ball do you think you can hit without miscuing? Have you ever tested it - say by using a striped ball with the stripe vertical and centered and then checking the chalk mark after shooting?

pj <- what's "walking the dog"?
chgo
Click to expand...

Extreme english, almost full ball cut shot, when the object ball is froze or close to the rail and the QB walks down the rail.

When I get home from my trip I’ll use my Rempe ball and see where the maximum mark is.
 
BC21 said:
Probably has a lot to do with shaft deflection also. If the shaft is lighter on the end (LD shaft) it could be kicked off the cb easier when using extreme english. A heavier ended shaft (not LD) would hold its place a little better, but also cause the cb to squirt more.
Click to expand...

Strange....I find that to be the opposite.
...a flexible shaft, in my experience, miscues less in the extreme, LD or solid wood.
...when a shot is hit with side-spin, something has to give...with the cue giving, I expect
a successful result....with a stiff shaft, often it’s the cue ball that gives...miscue.

This is only my interpretation of my experience...I’d like to hear more opinions.
 
pt109 said:
...a flexible shaft, in my experience, miscues less in the extreme, LD or solid wood.
Click to expand...
I think the shaft bends first in the opposite direction from what you’d expect, so the tip points toward the ball. Maybe this is a little more exaggerated with a flexible shaft, giving it a little better “grip” on the ball...?

pj <- no clue
chgo
 
jtompilot said:
I don’t believe that for one second. When I walk the dog down the rail I’m so far on the edge. It takes a soft hit not to miscue.
Click to expand...

I just realized what you said about the extreme edges with spin and the "walk the dog" shot.

I agree, my experience says that miscue limit is not accurate for some types of shots.

I, like most any experienced player, would never want to spend much time close to that CB area but I have/can certainly go there without any worries about miscues as long as I use a specific type stroke at a specific speed not to mention, at a specific speed.

When I use that area of the CB, the stroke I use is not what I would call "easy". When I shoot that shot I would call it more of a "rub" or even a massage rather than a "soft" hit..... almost like a push-through stroke but without fouling.

I know you understand what I'm talking about because you brought the shot up.

To give others an idea, it's the very same stroke I use when kicking the CB at the corner pocket on a 9' diamond pro-am with "VERY WORN CLOTH" while on the 140/70 track line and using a measles ball.

On worn cloth and on that table, that particular shot can be very difficult without adjusting to another number such as ~140/67 to ~140/69.

That is one of the shots I go to if I think my stroke needs tweaking for touchy draw/stun shots.
 
jrctherake said:
...my experience says that miscue limit [halfway to edge of CB] is not accurate for some types of shots.
Click to expand...
Again, it’s really quick and simple to test (like I have). I’d be interested to know your results - maybe you would be too. We might learn something.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Again, it’s really quick and simple to test (like I have). I’d be interested to know your results - maybe you would be too. We might learn something.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I'll spend some time testing that area of the CB on various shots and report back my results.

If I have time, I may put it on video and post it.

I'm a bit busy right now but, I normally don't have a problem finding time for things pool related:grin:

Rake
 
pt109 said:
Strange....I find that to be the opposite.
...a flexible shaft, in my experience, miscues less in the extreme, LD or solid wood.
...when a shot is hit with side-spin, something has to give...with the cue giving, I expect
a successful result....with a stiff shaft, often it’s the cue ball that gives...miscue.

This is only my interpretation of my experience...I’d like to hear more opinions.
Click to expand...


I'm mainly talking about the end mass of the shaft, not so much the stiffness. Even a flexible shaft that is not a low deflection shaft causes the cb to give way (squirt), though not quite as much as a stiff non-low deflection shaft. As an experiment I once used a 36" long, 3/8" thick steel rod with a cue tip glued on the end. The rod caused extreme cb squirt -- not miscues where the tip slips off the cb, but due to it's end mass and extreme stiffness it would shove the cb right out of the way any time I used extreme english.

With a flexible LD shaft, the cb deflects the end of the shaft away anytime you impart spin, which allows the cb to squirt less. It seems like extreme english would make it easier for this to happen, considering that when using a very stiff and heavy shaft (like that steel rod) the shaft doesn't give way at all....it just pushes the cb out of the way.

Many times, however, what I think seems right is about 90% wrong. Lol
 
hi

Looks like those Chinese and Taiwanese players on US Open mostly use thick tips and short tapper... did anybody notice that?
 
Interesting subject. Most pros don't use 13mm shafts, but IMHO most non-pros don't need to use smaller diameter shafts. Not only because it's possible to play good Pool with a 13mm shaft, but also because a 13mm shaft may help to avoid over-spinning the CB or apply unwanted swerve when elevating the cue which is often required.

Apart from differences in technical and playing characteristics due to various shaft thickness, my personal experience tells me that shaft diameter goes along with thickness of the cue butt in order to have an "appropriate" symmetry, a larger diameter shaft will most times feel better when fit to a thicker cue butt, and vice versa, at least to me.
 
Just my personal experience by watching both my stroke and the stroke of other "middle range" players too.
I would say that perhaps in Pool it is more important to "take out" from CB action rather than "adding" to it, and I feel more confident in doing so when using a thicker shaft compared to a thinner one.
From my personal observation of other people's stroke I think the same applies for most of them.
 
Petros Andrikop said:
Just my personal experience by watching both my stroke and the stroke of other "middle range" players too.
I would say that perhaps in Pool it is more important to "take out" from CB action rather than "adding" to it, and I feel more confident in doing so when using a thicker shaft compared to a thinner one.
From my personal observation of other people's stroke I think the same applies for most of them.
Click to expand...

You’re not allowed to,”think”.

Pat is a “pool scientist”.

Whatever he says is Gospel and don’t forget it.

He will question Efren, Appleton, Earl, Morris, and anybody else who doesn’t agree with his “beliefs”.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top