Any regrets on shimming pockets?

Tommy Tube Sock

Tommy Tube Sock

the last place you look
Silver Member
I've had my GC IV about 2 years now absolutely love it. I was afraid that I would eventually lose interest and the table might get as much use as the bow flex. Happily, this is not the case.

As I've become more and more addicted to pool and have spent increasing time reading this forum, I’ve come to understand that the GC in its standard set up has “buckets.”

I’m league player and have no aspirations of going pro. (too old and my real job pays more for much less work) I do, however, aspire to improve my game, move up in APA handicap, and maybe even get into some tournaments or US Amateurs at some point.

My cloth is showing some wear and I’ll probably be redoing it in the next year or two. I’m tempted to shim the pockets to 4.5 but I have some questions:

1) Given that I’m basically a recreational player, are tighter pockets advisable. I use the “pro pocket reducers” now. They take the pockets down to 3.5 and really frustrate me. I use them for drills and sometimes try the Hopkins skills challenge with a twist; instead of counting points, I see how many innings it takes me to clear the table. With the pocket reducers, I rack too much if I do it the real way!

2) I’m very confused about the mechanics of shimming. From various threads, I get that there are various methods. Any references to a good table mechanic in the Boston area?

I guess I’m torn because the game is tough enough for me with 5 inch pockets. I will do some table runs, but its not like the table is “too easy.” Most of the people who come over to play are higher skilled than me, but we also use the table for entertainment when friends and family are over. I also play a lot with my wife, who gets very frustrated as is. If I tighten the table, will I get better? Will the table be less fun for social gatherings? I guess my overall question is has anyone ever regretted tightening the pockets?
 
"I guess my overall question is has anyone ever regretted tightening the pockets?"

There is always going to be at least someone that will regret just about anything...
 
It shouldn't affect the fun you have in social gatherings. Most recreational players don't even notice when they play on tight pocket tables. They just assume they're having an off day.

It's your table first and foremost. If you think you'll benefit from shimming, go ahead. You can always remove the shims later.
 
TTS,

I wouldn't go any tighter than 4 3/4". You can still cheat the pocket while making a ball. Anything smaller can be frustrating.

As for methods, they are a couple. You can have longer (in length) rails installed in place of your current rails. This will effectively close the pocket mouth with a consistent rail material. And when a ball rebounds off the rail, it will rebound "true".

Another method is taking the rail cloth off and adding shims to the end of the rail to close the pocket mouth. This is a less expensive way to shim but depending on what material is used to shim out the pocket, any ball contacting this material may react "funny". Wood will make a ball die on rebound, rubber won't.

Barbara
 
Mine are about 4 3/8" and the side pockets are brutal.
The Artemis cushions have hardened up also after only two years.
The table is brutal now. You shoot balls down the side rail, you better hit prettty good.
I say make them 4 1/2 with accomodating angles in the corners and make the sides at least 4 3/4.
 
I'd say do it. The pockets on my GC IV are shimmed and I will keep them shimmed. It was a little frustrating at first, but I feel it's really helped my accuracy. The only downfall to me is that the ball can die if it hits the edge of the pockets, mostly this happens on the side pockets.
 
Go to a PH and play on a shimmed pocket table.

The first time I did I was kind of intimidated because I was use to shooting on a Brunswick with the "buckets". I was surprised to find that the balls were sucked into them like a vacuum. From what I have experienced is the shimmed pockets have parallel lead ins and the buckets are at a angle. The angle kicks the ball out if hit too hard and not clean, whereas the shimmed sucks them in. I guess both have there advantage, just what you like to play on. I like the buckets because it give other players a false sense of security until they start blowing shots and cannot understand why.
 
Tommy Tube Sock said:
I guess I’m torn because the game is tough enough for me with 5 inch pockets.
Click to expand...
If the 5" pockets are tough, don't do anything to the table.
 
I know that this may be a little off topic but can someone explain to me what shimming is and what you actually do to a pocket and (if need be) how you would remove the shim.
 
If you're going as tight as 4.5, make sure the pocket facings are pretty close to parallel (in the corners). If you've got a 4.5 inch corner pocket with a wide angle, you'll bobble just about everything you shoot down the rail. If you have a more parallel angle, the pockets will accept balls as long as you hit the opening of the pocket. It teaches accuracy while still minimizing the frustration of shots that look like they should have dropped, but hang up instead.

For the guy who asked what shims are, they're little rubber pads you put on the ends of the rails (inside the cloth, not outside) which extend the rails further into what used to be the pocket opening, making the pocket opening smaller. They're different than pocket reducers in that they go inside the cloth, and the pocket facings should play like normal, just with smaller openings. They can only be added/removed when you've got the cloth off the rail.

-Andrew
 
9 ball said:
I know that this may be a little off topic but can someone explain to me what shimming is and what you actually do to a pocket and (if need be) how you would remove the shim.
Click to expand...
From a few posts up....
Barbara said:
TTS,

I wouldn't go any tighter than 4 3/4". You can still cheat the pocket while making a ball. Anything smaller can be frustrating.

As for methods, they are a couple. You can have longer (in length) rails installed in place of your current rails. This will effectively close the pocket mouth with a consistent rail material. And when a ball rebounds off the rail, it will rebound "true".

Another method is taking the rail cloth off and adding shims to the end of the rail to close the pocket mouth. This is a less expensive way to shim but depending on what material is used to shim out the pocket, any ball contacting this material may react "funny". Wood will make a ball die on rebound, rubber won't.

Barbara
Click to expand...
 
Icon of Sin said:
From a few posts up....
Click to expand...

I'm not sure Barbara's post was 100% accurate?

From my limited experience with this.. There is two ways of doing it..

The way most have it done is what I would call a "fan" pocket. That being the points are at a much larger distance then the jaws of the pocket. That's how most standard tables are setup anyways.. Then people would take pocket facings and stack two sets of them on there to "shim" the pocket..

The way some guys are doing it now is (on a pre-existing table) to order all new rubber, then take the rubber to there shop etc.. Cut it so that the rubber is parallel (or almost parallel) then add the pocket facings, and assemble.

I'm not aware of any pockets that don't have the hard facings on them though? (Again I could be way off base here becuase I'm no mechanic).


I had my original GC1 "shimmed" by just adding pocket facings.. One of the things I didn't like about it was the points weren't as "sharp" and "crisp" as I liked. When you stack to peaces of basically hard plastic on top of each other.. And those two peaces of plastic are basically cut to size by some guy with an exacto knife, precision is NOT exactly the name of the game.. You could see the facings (barely) under the simonis on the rails, and how they didn't line up perfectly.

With the new way (leaving the rubber long) it's having a single facing on there that's cut to size, and it's alot more precision.

To Echo what others have said, they do play different though.. With the parallel pockets they generally end up smaller at the points which requires more precision to get it into the mouth of the pocket itself. Once it's in there though it's like a vacuum, if you didn't hit a point going in it almost sucks it down.. LOL Where as the traditional (old school) way of doing it seems that if you hit a pocket facing too hard they reject out..

Personally I prefer the new way of doing it.

DJ
 
I've had a double-shimmed GCIV for 2 years. My only regret is that, when the pro's come over to play they think the table is too easy (pockets are about the same opening width, but cut shallower than on their tight Diamond).
 
Tommy Tube Sock said:
... I guess my overall question is has anyone ever regretted tightening the pockets?
Click to expand...

I'm sure people have, I have not regreted going to 4 1/2" at all. Except to maybe wish I'd gone smaller.
 
catscradle said:
I'm sure people have, I have not regreted going to 4 1/2" at all. Except to maybe wish I'd gone smaller.
Click to expand...

going past a certain amount is going to make certain shots very very difficult. The classic example is drawing a ball that's 1/2 - 1" off the rail...there's a good chance it rattles.
 
man i recently went to a new poolroom back home, with triple shim (something like 4" or something? maybe a little over) pockets, and let me tell you, its ridiculous.

even as poolroom owners there, they regreted doing it. It was horrible, i believe there needs to be room to cheat the pocket to improve your game. Watch some accustats videos or the like of the pro matches, alot of times youll see them hit the rail 1 diamond up and still make the ball! those pockets are big!

I do agree it could be more interesting, but i think its not worth it. If you shim it all up tight, and get used to it, what good does it do? Teach you how to get shape without cheating the pocket? Why? Most pool halls you go to will be regular, single shim, or MAYBE (where i play) Double shimmed. These are reasonable. Dont attempt to go anywhere past double shim.

Heres a nice anecdote: when i was there, alot of the big money action guys who are better than me, were barking about "oh shut up its good for your game" so i told them to give me the normal weight on that table as the would on a single shim Goldcrown. They said sure. So i get the 7-8, and crush them, when normally i wouldnt have such an easy game. After words they said they wouldnt give me that kind of weight unless we played on a different table.

Point being: You think tables like that would widen the gap between scrubs and great players, but in fact it brings them closer together. The reason: it takes away from good players' break and runs, i noticed the good guys who usually break and run at least 1-2 racks in a race to 7, rarely ran one on the triple shim. This took away their ability to outrun the weight.

So, sorry for the rant, but i would suggest to get it shimmed, but to something REASONABLE. I love playing in my pool room with the double shim, so explore this option. Sorry for the lack of knowledge about the Inches" amount of the pockets, i simply dont know.
 
I asked the same question to a room owner friend. He said there is some room for natural movement/adjustment of the rail that will allow a small amount of narrowing of the pockets which doesn't change the angles or reaction of the balls going in the pockets but decreases the size some. He is a pro player also. Thats what he told me, true or not, I don't know. If true, it might be a good place to start.
 
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