Anyone else think the inter state ivory ban is dumb?

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They do have a unique, 'crisp' hit and sound. They are THE easiest to keep clean by far. As said above i think Tomahawk is one of if the the best of the modern ferrules. Elforyn is quite good also and has that ivory look.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Unless you happen to be one who prefers a better hitting cue with an ivory joint and ivory ferrules.
Ivory ferrules don't play better unless you like a lot of deflection. I've also used JossWests that had steel and ivory joints. I personally could not tell any difference in the hit. They do look cool for sure but modern stuff plays better. Good used stuff with ivory is readily available. https://www.cornerstonecues.com/product/joss-west-2/ Another: https://www.cornerstonecues.com/product/joss-west-5/
 

13ball

New member
Just curious if any of the cue makers and cue buyers think this latest ban of ivory products is dumb? I personally don't care for ivory inlays, but I do prefer ivory ferrules and joints, flat faced to be specific. I believe it was a cue seller put it in good terms. If the ivory is purchased thru legal channels and is of preban age, it cuts down on the poaching aspect of ivory harvesting. I think it's just a dumb ban for state to state sales.
Worth noting not a single pro uses ivory. Perhaps seek a competitive edge through practice and competition
Gave the elephants a break.
 

wagdad

Yup, I'm that Guy.
Silver Member
Worth noting not a single pro uses ivory. Perhaps seek a competitive edge through practice and competition
Gave the elephants a break.
The discussion isnt about the killing of elephants, it's about the ivory that's already been legally purchased thru the correct channels and now being outlawed.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The discussion isnt about the killing of elephants, it's about the ivory that's already been legally purchased thru the correct channels and now being outlawed.
Have you read the current regs? The use of ivory is NOT banned, just severely limited in its ise and shipment. Info on revisions: https://www.fws.gov/international/pdf/questions-and-answers-african-elephant-4d-final-rule.pdf Cuemakers, knifemakers,etc have known this was coming for years. Since 1990 the rules/regs have been changed on a fairly regular basis. I know makers that still use pre-ban ivory but they don't ship or advertise that they still have it. Not worth the hassle as EG found out.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Have you read the current regs? The use of ivory is NOT banned, just severely limited in its ise and shipment. Info on revisions: https://www.fws.gov/international/pdf/questions-and-answers-african-elephant-4d-final-rule.pdf Cuemakers, knifemakers,etc have known this was coming for years. Since 1990 the rules/regs have been changed on a fairly regular basis. I know makers that still use pre-ban ivory but they don't ship or advertise that they still have it. Not worth the hassle as EG found out.
Here is a beautiful alternative, the new Elforyn Super Tusk. https://www.elforyn.info/en/
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Back to the original question:: "Anyone else think the inter state ivory ban is dumb?"

It does not matter whe I/you/we think, it is law. You can argue with the merits of the law, you can argue with the intentions of the law, you can argue about the people one one side of the law or the other. But this changes nothing. It remains the law.

If you have stuff with ivory in it--be exceptionally careful about who knows about it, and whether it crosses state boundaries. For your own sake.....
 

Cuebuddy

Mini cues
Silver Member
Any pitchers? Without pitchers, it never happent.
OK, I may have borrowed this from the interwebs or maybe not?
Any pitchers? Without pitchers, it never happent.
OK, it went much like this
poster,840x830,f8f8f8-pad,1000x1000,f8f8f8.jpg
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Gold Member
Silver Member
Mammoths still exist, last time I was in Oregon I saw a Bigfoot riding one along the Umpqua river....true story.

I believe you.
Those mammoths produce quite a bit of wool as well as ivory. Good wool up Oregon way.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know the ivory restrictions pretty well. I make it a point to follow that nationally & also California.
There are 3 types of commerce: intrastate, interstate & international. For the purposes of this post,
let’s confine it to domestic commerce since the International ban has been discussed and settled.

States can enact any law that is constitutional. It cannot enact laws which modify or supersede any
federal law. However, states can enact a more stringent and expansive version of any Federal statute.

If you live in a state that has enacted a ivory ban, you cannot sell or even attempt to sell ivory, or in this
instance pool cues, to any other persons or entities that reside in your own state. Just attempting to sell
is a violation of the law. However, you can sell your cue when you are physically outside the geographical
boundaries of your own state. As an example, I cannot sell any of my cues while I’m physically in the State
of California but once I cross the border into Nevada, I can sell my cues and even buy more that have ivory.

State regulations pertain to that state only, no others. So every buyer and seller are respectively obligated
by the laws of the state in which they reside. No one is going to ever confiscate your pool cue because it
simply contains ivory. But if you go to illegally sell it, well, that’s an entirely different proposition. Remember
all laws in America are enacted de facto. Laws are never enacted retroactively. The simple example of this
Is the Volstead Act, i.e., Prohibition. Everyone bought as much liquor as possible before the law was passed.
After enactment, you couldn’t still buy liquor any longer. But all of the liquor you already owned, i.e., purchased
or possessed, was perfectly legal to have and drink. Laws in America are enacted as of a specific date, ergo
De Facto. I’ve extensively researched the ivory issue and FYI, all my cues are legal but can’t be sold while I
reside in CA. But if I attended a cue show in say Las Vegas, I can sell them or buy any cue I want and it’s legal.

Possession of ivory is not against the law as long as you acquired it, the item or for the purposes of this thread,
the pool cue legally. Since July 1, 2016, it has been against the law to buy or attempt to sell items with ivory in CA.

Bob Owen and Jerry Rauenzahn both were building custom cues for me in 2015. When CA passed the ivory ban
in December 2015, I spoke with both and my cues were scheduled for completion for the Fall of 2016. That would
be after CA’s ivory ban and meant breaking the law for them and also me. So they accelerated completion of my
cues to make sure I received the cues before July. Of course, they did it & both cues arrived Memorial Day Weekend.
As a further precaution. I had them sign & date my cues and of course, all my paperwork reflects the purchase dates.

Ivory and pool cues is still largely misunderstood. The final responsibility rests with the buyer and the cue maker. You
cannot plead ignorance of the law and expect to escape the fines and legal expenses and even confiscation of any
pool cue(s) involved. The law is real and you can’t argue around it in court either. So just abide by your local state law.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anyone see The Color of Money recently?

The movie was made when Bob Runde built my Schon.
That cue uses a piloted stainless steel joint & plays fine.
But it hasn’t seen any play since I got my 1st ivory cue.

Next time you watch the film, look at the cue Grady Matthews
plays with. Pay attention to the cue that Steve Mizerak plays
with when he faces Fast Eddie in the tournament. The cues
used had white joints, not stainless steel. I betcha that it also
wasn’t micarta either. Ivory absolutely does have distinct, unique
properties and characteristics. It does a lot more than look pretty.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Gold Member
Silver Member
Your Florida boomer world of “everything is so simple if you just do as I say” is fascinating. So basically....just so you can justify having ivory in your cue that serves no purpose.....you want to create a whole new bureaucracy to show which ivory was legal. Documentation does nothing to dissuade poachers and can easily be forged, but hey....at least you get your ivory inlays! That baby needs to be drowned in the bath water.
Love my Ivory and couldn't care less what you think
 
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