Anyone have a pdf of the shot set-ups for Bert Kinister's 60min workout

Like I said earlier, I have his yearly subscription. He doesn't have the drawings anymore. Lost them years ago. I think anyone who watches his videos will probably conclude as I did that he will never make new drawings either. He just rolls the camera for an hour, and that is the video. In looking at the first and last of his videos on the streaming site, they are all like that. No improvement in the 20 years he's been making them. No follow up work after that. The word edit is not in his vocabulary. By that same context, I don't think he would ever now go back and make new drawings.

It really is tricky figuring out the layout from the video. On the one I did it for, it probably took me a good 30 minutes fast forwarding and rewinding the stream with the computer on the table trying to mark all the spots. Its not like there is a good overhead view that shows everything clearly.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Like I said earlier, I have his yearly subscription. He doesn't have the drawings anymore. Lost them years ago. I think anyone who watches his videos will probably conclude as I did that he will never make new drawings either. He just rolls the camera for an hour, and that is the video. In looking at the first and last of his videos on the streaming site, they are all like that. No improvement in the 20 years he's been making them. No follow up work after that. The word edit is not in his vocabulary. By that same context, I don't think he would ever now go back and make new drawings.

It really is tricky figuring out the layout from the video. On the one I did it for, it probably took me a good 30 minutes fast forwarding and rewinding the stream with the computer on the table trying to mark all the spots. Its not like there is a good overhead view that shows everything clearly.
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You are 100% correct. However some people just need to argue even when they are arguing about the wrong issues and don't bother to listen.
 
prewarhero said:
You are 100% correct. However some people just need to argue even when they are arguing about the wrong issues and don't bother to listen.
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To me the discussion goes beyond the video in question. I value seeing all the opinions on the subject as Ive been working on a product and some of the topics here may help influence my decision as to move forward with it or not.

Woody
 
woody_968 said:
To me the discussion goes beyond the video in question. I value seeing all the opinions on the subject as Ive been working on a product and some of the topics here may help influence my decision as to move forward with it or not.

Woody
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And that is one of many reasons- most of which are never made public- that there should be a shift in the way we treat intellectual property.

People choose to not undertake projects because of the horrid effort:$.

We all suffer, really.
 
Many years ago I took lessons from Bert at his house. I had been going for about a year when a new poolhall opened in town. The owner was a complete dick who was rude and actually shoved the Preacher one day and kicked him out of his place. Don had helped him promote his hall and even got it in Billiard Digest I believe. Anyway, this douche started taking lessons from Bert. Almost immediately, he started offering lessons at his hall, teaching exactly what he learned the week before. This guy was terrible but he only had to walk around the table setting up the balls for his unfortunate students. I told Bert what this pos was doing and Bert said he's used to that happening. I guess he had seen many previous students using his lessons to make money they certainly didn't deserve. I'm by no means saying sharing all info is ok but it's part of the business.
Years ago I invented a tool for stretching cloth. I was able to pull the cloth tighter on my table than two people could. I never patented it because I know the first time one was seen in public someone in China would start making them and selling them for less money and I'd never recover my $5000 utility patent cost. So I just use it for my table and loan it out to friends.
Something tells me Bert's going to be ok.
 
JolietJames said:
Years ago I invented a tool for stretching cloth. I was able to pull the cloth tighter on my table than two people could. I never patented it because I know the first time one was seen in public someone in China would start making them and selling them for less money and I'd never recover my $5000 utility patent cost. So I just use it for my table and loan it out to friends.
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Hey, that actually sounds pretty interesting. I'll see table mechanics basically hanging off the edge of the table gripping cloth like they were gonna fall off a cliff if they let go. Well, the better mechanics do anyway. It always looked like way too much work.

Since you already resigned yourself to not making money on it, do you mind sharing what the tool is and how it works? It's so frustrating playing on poorly stretched cloth. You slide your bridge hand into place and the cue ball rolls forward a foot.
 
cloth install

CreeDo said:
Hey, that actually sounds pretty interesting. I'll see table mechanics basically hanging off the edge of the table gripping cloth like they were gonna fall off a cliff if they let go. Well, the better mechanics do anyway. It always looked like way too much work.

Since you already resigned yourself to not making money on it, do you mind sharing what the tool is and how it works? It's so frustrating playing on poorly stretched cloth. You slide your bridge hand into place and the cue ball rolls forward a foot.
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I dont know if you ever watched the diamond guys stretch cloth. it seems effortless. they use no tool at all. theres a video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rr8JAT7VWo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arYF5YqgW7Q

sorry , not to take away from the bert talk. Back to the previous subject matter.

rack em sucker
 
JolietJames said:
Many years ago I took lessons from Bert at his house. I had been going for about a year when a new poolhall opened in town. The owner was a complete dick who was rude and actually shoved the Preacher one day and kicked him out of his place. Don had helped him promote his hall and even got it in Billiard Digest I believe. Anyway, this douche started taking lessons from Bert. Almost immediately, he started offering lessons at his hall, teaching exactly what he learned the week before. This guy was terrible but he only had to walk around the table setting up the balls for his unfortunate students. I told Bert what this pos was doing and Bert said he's used to that happening. I guess he had seen many previous students using his lessons to make money they certainly didn't deserve. I'm by no means saying sharing all info is ok but it's part of the business.
Years ago I invented a tool for stretching cloth. I was able to pull the cloth tighter on my table than two people could. I never patented it because I know the first time one was seen in public someone in China would start making them and selling them for less money and I'd never recover my $5000 utility patent cost. So I just use it for my table and loan it out to friends.
Something tells me Bert's going to be ok.
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This is what I was saying, Bert does not own the shots they are not copyrightable. Bert owns his word and images that is what he did when he made the videos he spoke and taught in his words. Somebody else can write down the shots but without the words it is just a set of shots. Same as the mother drills without know why and what you are learning they are not as valuable.
 
elvicash said:
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This is what I was saying, Bert does not own the shots they are not copyrightable. Bert owns his word and images that is what he did when he made the videos he spoke and taught in his words. Somebody else can write down the shots but without the words it is just a set of shots. Same as the mother drills without know why and what you are learning they are not as valuable.
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Yeah but that was much worse I think. That dick was making money off people at the pool hall parroting Bert's lessons. The guy was an all around jerk. His was the only pool hall closing that was actually celebrated by pool players in town. Once the stuff with the Preacher went down all actual players stopped going. I hope he lost everything and then some.
Watched the Diamond video. I'm sure that table will play fine but my cloth is much tighter than that. We did use the contact cement on my new to me GC like they were using in the vid. When I did my old 8 footer I used my tool and an electric stapler.
 
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Bert doesn't own the shots, and you could get into a lot of arguments about whether he owns the "Arrangement" of shots as part of a larger package or drill. Legally you're probably safe if you don't copy the actual CD/VHS/whatever.

Morally, it's really not that difficult. You just ask yourself if what you're doing might cause someone to change their mind about paying bert.

If the answer is yes, it doesn't matter whether it's "technically" piracy or not.
The label you choose would not change the fact that by copying someone else's work,
you're costing them money.
 
JolietJames said:
Yeah but that was much worse I think. That dick was making money off people at the pool hall parroting Bert's lessons. The guy was an all around jerk. His was the only pool hall closing that was actually celebrated by pool players in town. Once the stuff with the Preacher went down all actual players stopped going. I hope he lost everything and then some.
Watched the Diamond video. I'm sure that table will play fine but my cloth is much tighter than that. We did use the contact cement on my new to me GC like they were using in the vid. When I did my old 8 footer I used my tool and an electric stapler.
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Was this room in the Joliet area? I grew up in New Lenox and I would definitely be interested in hearing more of the story. I spoke with The Preacher quite often when I was a kid and I ran into his daughter not too long ago. If you feel so inclined, PM'ing me with the details would be a good read.
 
JolietJames said:
Yeah but that was much worse I think. That dick was making money off people at the pool hall parroting Bert's lessons. The guy was an all around jerk. His was the only pool hall closing that was actually celebrated by pool players in town. Once the stuff with the Preacher went down all actual players stopped going. I hope he lost everything and then some.
Watched the Diamond video. I'm sure that table will play fine but my cloth is much tighter than that. We did use the contact cement on my new to me GC like they were using in the vid. When I did my old 8 footer I used my tool and an electric stapler.
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We had the diamond installers recloth out tables at the bar. Trust me the cloth is as tight as it gets.
Were one year 2 months in on the cloth and its as tight as install day.
Cheers
 
The pool room owned by the pos was classic billiards in crest hill.

The pool hall in New Lenox/Joliet was the Pool Loft. It was owned by Ernie, a great guy and great player.

In fact my GC was the money table next to the counter!
 
Some of you are getting on Prewarhero for asking for the diagrams, but funny thing is he is making Kinister money. I just subscribed last night after reading this thread. I'm probably not the only one.
 
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SlateMan said:
Looks like Bert put his stuff on Youtube. At least, I hope this was his channel....

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Looks pretty official not a rip off. Basically if you are not on YouTube, Tiktok or one of those platforms, you cease to be relevant to anyone under 25 these days. Many people I run into use YouTube as their only source of information from news to science to learning anything, if there is not a video of it, they are clueless on how to research and learn, it's like books and online documentation in written form does not exist LOL
 
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