Archers Not So Comeback and Commentary

its a personal life choice. for some it works and most find out later in life they screwed up.

same with the grasshopper in aesop's fable.

he laughed at the ant for working and saving so hard. but come winter he starved to death and the ant gave him nothing.
 
I don't know what kind of job it is that you offer. Maybe none of what I'm about to write applies to it? However, physical jobs with no health insurance and 55 year old pudgy guys who led a sedentary lifestyle, don't necessarily mix. How long before his back, or joints give out from putting up drywall for 12 hours a day or his heart gives out from schlepping concrete bags in 100 degree weather?

Lots of people do these kinds of jobs, and many are probably worse off than Archer. Maybe they're older and more frail. I feel bad for them and Archer too, if that is his future. No savings at 55 and relatively low paying job (in terms of saving for retirement) means he's going to work until he drops. He probably wouldn't have health insurance, so he can't get any help when his body inevitably gives out or if pays out of pocket, his life savings will be drained instantly. Bleak AF. Hopefully he could work a sales job instead to at least give him a chance of a long life.
You're right that working a manual labor job isn't ideal, but you have to play the hand you have. Sales is absolutely a good option. I'm sure Diamond has sales or customer service positions. I'm also sure they would love to have someone with that kind of pool experience and recognition working for them. There's probably another 20 other companies in the industry that would also hire him. Is he even looking into something like that? He can still play pool 8 hours a day if he wants...but he needs to prioritize making a living over his wants and desires. Paychecks come in handy.
 
Your argument is ridiculous. You can't compare Johnny Archer (a celebrity) to some random guy in the pool hall who you'll never see again or some broke tenant of yours. These aren't comparable at all.
Why can't we compare people? Do high level pool players operate in a different reality than us common folk or do we possibly share the same values and/or ethics?
This was a publicly advertised match up with trustworthy backers. After Johnny lost, his backers paid him the money and Johnny skipped town with it. So of course the first thing to do is ruin his reputation all over the internet. What else can you do besides physical violence? I bet you would do the same if Johnny Archer or some other celebrity was renting an apartment from you and didn't pay
Wait...I thought we couldn't compare it using my rental example. Of course I would be upset if it happened to me. Hopefully, I would handle the situation with class like Oscar has done.
.

And honestly, most regular people (non-celebrities) who act like scumbags are treated the same way. If someone steals your cue, you're going to tell everyone you know so they can be careful. Well it just so happens that A LOT of people know Johnny Archer so there are a lot of people to tell.
Again, I have no issue with letting people know about the situation. I think the main issue I have is with people using this single issue to define the man's entire life, WHEN the final chapter on this affair has not yet been written. Everyone is a collection of all of their good deeds and their bad ones. I suppose all I'm calling for is leaving a crack in the door for Johnny to open if he can get his life turned around. I feel like Oscar was willing to do that but many on here are not for some reason.

Guess I'm a sucker for a good redemption story.
 
i never play or played sets. too easy to get stuck for the cash. game by game you can only get stuck for one game.
especially in case of an argument.

plus sets are definitive so its easy to lose one and quit. or win one and quit.
game by game they play till they are broke.
 
some pool players used what they learned, to use it as a stepping stone to make more of themselves instead of being stuck in one profession with limited upside for all their lives.
 
Can't stop as I find this philosophically interesting...

As a landlord, if a tenant quit paying their rent when you knew they had the money, would you get upset? Of course you would. Now after they were evicted, if they came back to you with five thousand dollars of the missing ten thousand total, how would you view them? Especially, if that former tenant had recently lost their marriage and their job?

As a landlord, I would be SHOCKED beyond belief that they payed me anything! People wrongfully walk away from debts all the time in our society and few people bat an eye. So I would likely hold out hope for their redemption.

I guess this is why I find myself in purgatory on this matter. I recognize Johnny did Oscar wrong but I'm hopeful he can still do the right thing and I'm not so sure it should be the scarlet letter that so many others do.

Lots of us have given up our dreams for a 9 to 5 so that we can do what we need to do to survive. What I'm not going to do is start robbing people so I can live a certain lifestyle.
 
Where to start? First of all the way you find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them. There are caveats to this as well. A good con man might borrow small money and repay you, and later when he has gained your trust borrow a much larger amount and never repay you. And then there are the outright scammers, like Bernie Madoff who conned millionaires (doctors, lawyers and other sucessful businessmen) out of huge sums of money. My attitude has always been that if the deal looks too good to be true, then it probably isn't! If someone offers me (and they have) a 50% return on my money in three months that is enough for me to know it's no good. Think about it. If there was a deal that good, why do they need me? And why would they share that with me? Answer - they wouldn't!

And let's be honest, we've all been A-Holes at one time or another. So be careful about condemning others. As most who know me would say I hold personal honor in the highest regard. Our word must be our bond. But I will confess here publicly, that in a weak moment in my life at a very tender age, I was convinced to participate in a fixed match. I was guaranteed the win if I agreed to split the profits. It was more money that I had at the time and I went for it. Without telling the whole story it turned out to be a disaster and I almost got my ass kicked, which I so rightly deserved. Lucky for me I learned my lesson and never took part in any nefarious schemes again. Yes, we were all young and dumb once!

As for Johnny he has been a personal friend of mine since his youth. We always got along well and I enjoyed his company. He has a wacky sense of humor that I happen to enjoy. Of course we never had any money dealings other than my paying out prize money to him many times. When he won the first Los Angeles Open in 1992 Johnny won $21,000, which was paid by check from me. He cashed that check the same day he got it! No problem. Pool made him fairly well to do (middle class wealthy) at one point in his life and he decided to invest in the purchase of a large poolroom in his native Georgia. He phoned me and we discussed the deal, since he knew I had a couple of very successful poolrooms. When he told me how much his share (the primary owners share 60%) would cost him (a healthy six figures) I asked him if he had that much capital to make such an investment. His answer was yes, if he used all his savings and took out a second mortgage on his home. My response to him was that it was not a good idea for him to invest that heavily. I told him not to put all his apples in one basket. My advice was to never invest more than 1/4 to 1/3 of your capital into any one deal. That way you are not wiped out if it fails.

We all know what happened. His investment went sideways, due to his inaptitude as a businessman and poor oversight of the money flow. Johnny was wiped out! All that he had obtained over the course of twenty years was gone and he needed to start over. Sadly he has never regained his footing and time has only made him more desperate. And desperate men do desperate things. In my life I've seen far worse than what Johnny has done here. That is not to excuse him though. Johnny has lost his moral compass and he is the big loser here, not Oscar.

There are people who owe me money right now, some small and some significant. What they have in common is they broke their promise to repay me. A couple of them are also well known in the billiard industry, who will remain nameless here. And yes, they all have an excuse. How does that make me feel, other than knowing that they can't be trusted? In a nutshell it's this. I'd rather be on my side of it then theirs!

Thanks for your time.
 
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What a field!
From what I've read, two months before Worst died he competed in this 1966 World Straight Pool Championship, although severely ill he finished 4th. Tragic.
Super glad Cicero won.
As for Willie .... tragic isn't the word ... nuf said.
Worst had already won the Johnston City and Stardust tournaments the year before, in 1965. That was the last time I saw him play. He lost a lot of weight between the two tourneys, and was gaunt and thin. I wondered what happened to him. I never saw him complain or make any excuses though.
 
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Doesn't seem to slow Neils Feijen down much, who is blind in one eye...
There have been several very good one eyed players. The first one I ever saw play was One Eyed Tony from Detroit. He was a top notch hustler in the 60's and 70's, and a really straight shooter. How he learned to play so good with that handicap is beyond me.
 
There have been several very good one eyed players. The first one I ever saw play was One Eyed Tony from Detroit. He was a top notch hustler in the 60's and 70's, and a really straight shooter. How he learned to play so good with that handicap is beyond me.
I only see out of one eye too (neurological issue). I would say it's only a handicap in sports where depth perception and timing are important (you need two eyes for depth perception). Baseball and tennis come to mind because of the timing of hitting a moving ball coming towards you. I played a lot of volleyball and always blamed only being a "B" player on a skill and coordination deficit. As I learned more about my neurological issue, I figured out I had trouble accurately judging how far the volleyball and net were from my body...that affected my hitting because a hitter is typically taking a few steps to jump higher (you have zero depth perception with one eye). I don't know if I'd say it's a handicap in pool. At one time, when I played 30-40 hours a week, I had a reputation of being an outrageous shot maker.
 
There have been several very good one eyed players. The first one I ever saw play was One Eyed Tony from Detroit. He was a top notch hustler in the 60's and 70's, and a really straight shooter. How he learned to play so good with that handicap is beyond me.
Yeah but could he play with one eye closed?? ;)
 
Where to start? First of all the way you find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them. There are caveats to this as well. A good con man might borrow small money and repay you, and later when he has gained your trust borrow a much larger amount and never repay you. And then there are the outright scammers, like Bernie Madoff who conned millionaires (doctors, lawyers and other sucessful businessmen) out of huge sums of money. My attitude has always been that if the deal looks too good to be true, then it probably isn't! If someone offers me (and they have) a 50% return on my money in three months that is enough for me to know it's no good. Think about it. If there was a deal that good, why do they need me? And why would they share that with me? Answer - they wouldn't!

And let's be honest, we've all been A-Holes at one time or another. So be careful about condemning others. As most who know me would say I hold personal honor in the highest regard. Our word must be our bond. But I will confess here publicly, that in a weak moment in my life at a very tender age, I was convinced to participate in a fixed match. I was guaranteed the win if I agreed to split the profits. It was more money that I had at the time and I went for it. Without telling the whole story it turned out to be a disaster and I almost got my ass kicked, which I so rightly deserved. Lucky for me I learned my lesson and never took part in any nefarious schemes again. Yes, we were all young and dumb once!

As for Johnny he has been a personal friend of mine since his youth. We always got along well and I enjoyed his company. He has a wacky sense of humor that I happen to enjoy. Of course we never had any money dealings other than my paying out prize money to him many times. When he won the first Los Angeles Open in 1992 Johnny won $21,000, which was paid by check from me. He cashed that check the same day he got it! No problem. Pool made him fairly well to do (middle class wealthy) at one point in his life and he decided to invest in the purchase of a large poolroom in his native Georgia. He phoned me and we discussed the deal, since he knew I had a couple of very successful poolrooms. When he told me how much his share (the primary owners share) would cost him (a healthy six figures) I asked him if he had that much capital to make such an investment. His answer was yes, if he used all his savings and took out a second mortgage on his home. My response to him was that it was not a good idea for him to invest that heavily. I told him not to put all his apples in one basket. My advice was to never invest more than 1/4 to 1/3 of your capital into any one deal. That way you are not wiped out if it failed.

We all know what happened. His investment went sideways, due to his inaptitude as a businessman and poor oversight of the money flow. Johnny was wiped out! All that he had obtained over the course of twenty years was gone and he needed to start over. Sadly he has never regained his footing and time has only made him more desperate. And desperate men do desperate things. In my life I've seen far worse than what Johnny has done here. That is not to excuse him though. Johnny has lost his moral compass and he is the big loser here, not Oscar.

There are people who owe me money right now, some small and some significant. What they have in common is they broke their promise to repay me. A couple of them are also well known in the billiard industry, who will remain nameless here. And yes, they all have an excuse. How does that make me feel, other than knowing that they can't be trusted? In a nutshell it's this. I'd rather be on my side of it then theirs!

Thanks for your time.
Great post.
 
Fully aware, are you?? You'd have to go to IHOP to see more 'waffles'. Perspective means nothing here unless one is just hell-bent on giving the guy a pass.
1. Never Forgive & Never Forget
2. Forgive & Never Forget
3. Forgive & Forget

I'm actually between 1 & 2. I think Archer can work his way to number 2. It seems the active majority on this thread are number 1.
 
Until now
If you are insinuating that all these higher prize funds are going to be the saving solution of professional pool players, consider this:

Here's the 2023 money leader list: https://www.azbilliards.com/leaderboard/

Only the top 10 or 11 players on that list make more money than MOST Master plumbers or Master electricians that know how to properly ply their trades.

The difference you ask??? The plumbers and electricians more than likely make the money from their trades EVERY year, whereas the pool player MUST be at the top of the pool world every year also to make the top 10 or 11 on the money list.

Most pool players, with the exception of a few, have several "glory" years when they are on fire and then subsequently cool down and settle in with the middle-of-the-packers. The aren't on the top side of the money list year after year. A plumber or electrician can literally make their yearly money for 30 to 40 years if they choose to work that long. No pool player can do that...period.

Even with all this new money recently coming into pool payouts the same thing applies: A player still has to get into the money rounds of virtually every tournament he/she enters to make any kind of decent living at it.

Don't try to mention the amount of $$$ a pool player can make "on the side" by gambling/instructing. Trust me, plumbers/electricians/mechanics, etc. can make a BUNCH of money doing side work too.

I can, without hard facts, promise you there are a LOT more plumbers and electricians, etc. that are successful in life than there are professional pool players. By a large amount.
 
If you are insinuating that all these higher prize funds are going to be the saving solution of professional pool players, consider this:

Here's the 2023 money leader list: https://www.azbilliards.com/leaderboard/

Only the top 10 or 11 players on that list make more money than MOST Master plumbers or Master electricians that know how to properly ply their trades.

The difference you ask??? The plumbers and electricians more than likely make the money from their trades EVERY year, whereas the pool player MUST be at the top of the pool world every year also to make the top 10 or 11 on the money list.

Most pool players, with the exception of a few, have several "glory" years when they are on fire and then subsequently cool down and settle in with the middle-of-the-packers. The aren't on the top side of the money list year after year. A plumber or electrician can literally make their yearly money for 30 to 40 years if they choose to work that long. No pool player can do that...period.

Even with all this new money recently coming into pool payouts the same thing applies: A player still has to get into the money rounds of virtually every tournament he/she enters to make any kind of decent living at it.

Don't try to mention the amount of $$$ a pool player can make "on the side" by gambling/instructing. Trust me, plumbers/electricians/mechanics, etc. can make a BUNCH of money doing side work too.

I can, without hard facts, promise you there are a LOT more plumbers and electricians, etc. that are successful in life than there are professional pool players. By a large amount.
A "lot more" is very different from "virtually all" pool players, which is the comment that I responded to. But thank you for your insights into the lucrative careers of plumbers and electricians. I wonder how many of them would trade places with a pro pool player instead of having to get under sinks and replace old toilets, or dig under houses to repair wiring issues. Did you ever think about that? ;)

The funny thing is that years ago when I might meet a doctor, lawyer or other professional and tell them that I was a pool player, I could tell they almost envied me. Most of them were fascinated to hear what my life was like and never once asked me how much money I made. Crazy huh
 
there is a big plus to living your life how you want. and making your own hours.
the biggest plus is you never have to say yes sir to anyone, or be told to do something you don't want to do.

some do well with that lifestyle and some use it to destroy themselves.
 
1. Never Forgive & Never Forget
2. Forgive & Never Forget
3. Forgive & Forget

I'm actually between 1 & 2. I think Archer can work his way to number 2. It seems the active majority on this thread are number 1.
We're good bro. Just jackin with ya. Archer will NEVER be a top player again. At 55 WAAAAY too much water has gone under his bridge. Too many young uber-talented run-out artists to deal with.
 
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