one of my favorite post of the year so far....
are custom cues really worth the $ ?
- Thread starter lorider
- Start date
one of my favorite post of the year so far....
i think you were under more scrutiny than you deserved when you 1st started selling on here.
if every cuemaker handled their customer service as well as i have seen you do so far this thread would not even be posted.
you get an a+ for reading comprehension :thumbup:
it certainly applies in more than one instance here,,,,,,,
Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them.
- Laura Teresa Marquez
Thanks for the best compliment I have gotten on AZ....I needed that
I guess it comes down to, how bad do you want it? Are customs really that much better than production cues? I don't know that answer.
I think that I would rather have a pretty darn cue in a fer days or weeks, that I can be playing with, rather than waiting years, to get MAYBE a better cue. jmo
When I'm on, I can shoot with a house cue, when I'm off, no cue is going to help. I's not the arrow, I's the Indian.
I think that I would rather have a pretty darn cue in a fer days or weeks, that I can be playing with, rather than waiting years, to get MAYBE a better cue. jmo
When I'm on, I can shoot with a house cue, when I'm off, no cue is going to help. I's not the arrow, I's the Indian.
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You are a gentleman sir. Well done. :thumbup:
Here is a short listof reliable honest cue makers
I know most cue makers fairly well if
they are long time in business
Bob Owen.
Barry Szamboti
Southwest...
Ron Haley
Schon
Scott Gracio
John Nemic...engineer who made the deano
and can do lots of neat things
Paul Drexler
Pete Tonkin
these guys are deserving of your trust and admiration
I know of several who are not
Great casemakers worthy of your business
Rusty
Ron Thomas
John Barton
King
these are good to deal with too
If you need ivory
David Warther is the man to buy from
As far as dealers,I have never had an issue with one on here
i have had arguments
I can not say I was always on the right end
there are others that are trust worthy,some are not
it amazes me to see az members complain
only to have someone else defend the offending cue maker
who has a long history of questionable practices
I know most cue makers fairly well if
they are long time in business
Bob Owen.
Barry Szamboti
Southwest...
Ron Haley
Schon
Scott Gracio
John Nemic...engineer who made the deano
and can do lots of neat things
Paul Drexler
Pete Tonkin
these guys are deserving of your trust and admiration
I know of several who are not
Great casemakers worthy of your business
Rusty
Ron Thomas
John Barton
King
these are good to deal with too
If you need ivory
David Warther is the man to buy from
As far as dealers,I have never had an issue with one on here
i have had arguments
I can not say I was always on the right end
there are others that are trust worthy,some are not
it amazes me to see az members complain
only to have someone else defend the offending cue maker
who has a long history of questionable practices
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Add Keith and Sherri Josey, as well as Murray Tucker to that list. Stand behind their cues 100% and a pleasure to deal with.
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Like Ridewiththewind, I'm not into fancy cues loaded with inlays. My thing is collecting good playing cues, ones that have a nice solid hit and feel to them. After all isn't that what they are made for, to hit balls :smile:. If I find a cue I like and the price is right imo, I will buy it. I have somewhere between 40 and 50 cues, most of which I like playing with. I'll even break the balls with them! 
On my cue rack, there are ten cues, all among my favorites. NONE of them are fancy but all of them hit good! The most expensive one may be worth $1,000 (an old plain maple Hank Corsair). I've had many good players visit me and I always offer to let them hit with any cue in the rack, just not mine :smile:. To a man they find a cue they like pretty quickly, with some even asking to borrow or buy it. I rarely sell any of them.
I prefer buying a cue that I can see, feel and hit balls with. In the last month I've bought three new cues, a Leon Sly (sweet hitter - Tang already borrowed it), a Keith Josey (I love his cues) and a Mike Capone that I bought directly from Mike. All three were in the four to eight hundred dollar range. So I didn't pay a fortune for any of them.
For me it's a pretty simple equation - I deal with people I like, I buy cues that I like and I pay a price that is affordable to me. The last cue I ordered came from Pete Tascarella a few years back. It cost $1,500 and he asked for zero deposit from me, just took my order and got the specs I wanted. He promised me the cue in one year and one year later he called and told me it was ready. Then and only then did he ask me to send him money. Good man that Tascarella! :thumbup2:
On my cue rack, there are ten cues, all among my favorites. NONE of them are fancy but all of them hit good! The most expensive one may be worth $1,000 (an old plain maple Hank Corsair). I've had many good players visit me and I always offer to let them hit with any cue in the rack, just not mine :smile:. To a man they find a cue they like pretty quickly, with some even asking to borrow or buy it. I rarely sell any of them.
I prefer buying a cue that I can see, feel and hit balls with. In the last month I've bought three new cues, a Leon Sly (sweet hitter - Tang already borrowed it), a Keith Josey (I love his cues) and a Mike Capone that I bought directly from Mike. All three were in the four to eight hundred dollar range. So I didn't pay a fortune for any of them.
For me it's a pretty simple equation - I deal with people I like, I buy cues that I like and I pay a price that is affordable to me. The last cue I ordered came from Pete Tascarella a few years back. It cost $1,500 and he asked for zero deposit from me, just took my order and got the specs I wanted. He promised me the cue in one year and one year later he called and told me it was ready. Then and only then did he ask me to send him money. Good man that Tascarella! :thumbup2:
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Like Ridewiththewind, I'm not into fancy cues loaded with inlays. My thing is collecting good playing cues, ones that have a nice solid hit and feel to them. After all isn't that what they are made for, to hit balls :smile:. If I find a cue I like and the price is right imo, I will buy it. I have somewhere between 40 and 50 cues, most of which I like playing with. I'll even break the balls with them!
On my cue rack, there are ten cues, all among my favorites. NONE of them are fancy but all of them hit good! The most expensive one may be worth $1,000 (an old plain maple Hank Corsair). I've had many good players visit me and I always offer to let them hit with any cue in the rack, just not mine :smile:. To a man they find a cue they like pretty quickly, with some even asking to borrow or buy it. I rarely sell any of them.
I prefer buying a cue that I can see, feel and hit balls with. In the last month I've bought three new cues, a Leon Sly (sweet hitter - Tang already borrowed it), a Keith Josey (I love his cues) and a Mike Capone that I bought directly from Mike. All three were in the four to eight hundred dollar range. So I didn't pay a fortune for any of them.
For me it's a pretty simple equation - I deal with people I like, I buy cues that I like and I pay a price that is affordable to me. The last cue I ordered came from Pete Tascarella a few years back. It cost $1,500 and he asked for zero deposit from me, just took my order and got the specs I wanted. He promised me the cue in one year and one year later he called and told me it was ready. Then and only then did he ask me to send him money. Good man that Tascarella! :thumbup2:
Jay, how many of the old master's playing cues have run through your hands over the years?
Did you ever
get into a sports car and drive it and felt like you and the car were one with the road? Did you ever meet a woman and later had wonderful give and take sex with her and felt as if you two were one?
Well, that's pretty much how it feels when you get the perfect custom cue for yourself. Everything clicks, the cue just feels like an extension of yourself and responds just how you like it to.
Yes, a custom cue is worth it.
get into a sports car and drive it and felt like you and the car were one with the road? Did you ever meet a woman and later had wonderful give and take sex with her and felt as if you two were one?
Well, that's pretty much how it feels when you get the perfect custom cue for yourself. Everything clicks, the cue just feels like an extension of yourself and responds just how you like it to.
Yes, a custom cue is worth it.
I have bought 99 % of my high end cues from dealers and private sellers and have had nothing but great experiences over the years. JV here and mark are great guys (I dont care what everyone else says:grin
and when it comes to price i feel they are entitled to make a decent profit for all the butt kissing they do to aquire these cues...not to mention the cost of shows,travel,booth fees,hotel.....They dont make alot of money doing these things...they do it for the love of the hobby. They never charge double and if you dont know what is a fair price to begin with then you shouldnt be buying these cues. As far as cuemakers I have had 2 dealings with ordering cues and one from FLORIDA I dont care what his cues are worth I would never want to own one his cues again after being on his list for many years and then after his cues go up he conveniently lose's the list and then starts a new one. Comunication was always a problem and excuses excuses.. I never bothered to put my name back on that list after that experience. The other was Ron Haley and I dont think there is a nicer guy to order a cue from. He has a long wait but he will follow thru on his orders and he's just the BEST! So either way you want to go...dealers or cuemakers the majority of them are great to deal with. Dont let these very few cuemaker who have made mistakes drag everyone else down
and when it comes to price i feel they are entitled to make a decent profit for all the butt kissing they do to aquire these cues...not to mention the cost of shows,travel,booth fees,hotel.....They dont make alot of money doing these things...they do it for the love of the hobby. They never charge double and if you dont know what is a fair price to begin with then you shouldnt be buying these cues. As far as cuemakers I have had 2 dealings with ordering cues and one from FLORIDA I dont care what his cues are worth I would never want to own one his cues again after being on his list for many years and then after his cues go up he conveniently lose's the list and then starts a new one. Comunication was always a problem and excuses excuses.. I never bothered to put my name back on that list after that experience. The other was Ron Haley and I dont think there is a nicer guy to order a cue from. He has a long wait but he will follow thru on his orders and he's just the BEST! So either way you want to go...dealers or cuemakers the majority of them are great to deal with. Dont let these very few cuemaker who have made mistakes drag everyone else down
Here's the deal to anyone interested in ordering a custom cue....do your homework!!!! Do a search for your desired maker, and read the comments...ALL THE COMMENTS! Not just the ones you wanna hear. Rarely do negative comments get made by customers without a little basis in truth. If you are looking for a smooth experience, then stay away from those makers who continue to periodically have 'issues'. Seems pretty simple to me. Remember....It's YOUR money, and as a customer, you do have the right to expect to be treated well for that money.
I guess all I really have left to say on the matter is that given all that has been mentioned in this and numerous other threads...you still choose to willingly enter into an arrangement with a known 'problematic' maker.....don't come whining here when it all goes sideways. And if your reason for doing so is profit-driven, and you get bit.....well, karma's a b*tch.
I guess all I really have left to say on the matter is that given all that has been mentioned in this and numerous other threads...you still choose to willingly enter into an arrangement with a known 'problematic' maker.....don't come whining here when it all goes sideways. And if your reason for doing so is profit-driven, and you get bit.....well, karma's a b*tch.
You mean is getting a custom anything worth the headaches and hassles of no communication and broken promises and delays?
No not at all.
I have done it to my customers and continue to do it to a few and it's unreasonable, unconscionable and makes me feel like shit. It diminishes the joy and anticipation and makes the whole deal feel icky on both side.
Ben Franklin said that when you owe someone you will avoid them, you can't look them in the eye and you will slink around. And that is exactly how it goes.
When I can't (or don't/won't) fulfill the orders placed with me and I don't have a good answer as to why then I avoid communication.
That's why I am trying to off load as much of the admin to others as possible. I suck suck suck suck at it.
From the maker's perspective there is nothing worse than not fulfilling your orders. Whether it's through your own disorganization, or being overwhelmed, laziness, accidents, other life stuff, or whatever.....the fact that you have paying customers who are not getting taken care of sucks.
And as Joe said, the bigger the pedestal the higher the fall.
So no, it's not worth it to me if I were the customer and as a maker I am deeply ashamed when I do it to a customer. Even though most of my customers say it's worth the wait and I do try to make up for causing them headaches I'd still prefer to give them a date and stick to it and that way everyone is happy throughout the whole process.
Already covered but I will add another story about a legendary saddle maker who would take your order, write down all the specs, and then a year or so later deliver saddles that were no where near what you ordered. But everyone who got one kept them because they were so beautiful and well made.
Depends on the situation I'd say. For the most part no. But I guess it's like asking yourself if it would have been worth putting up with Picasso's temperament to get a painting by him? Or another way to look at it is that nothing worth having is easy to get. We tend to forget that on the other end of the line is often ONE GUY being bombarded by many people from all angles. Not just customers but also suppliers wanting to sell you something. Machines that need maintenence, and of course the rest of life that needs tending to. It's almost never just a one to one connection where the cue maker (or case maker) is tending to just one person's needs. And we never like to say no to anything.
Well there are two things at play here. I'd say that MOST of the missed target dates are due to makers who overestimate their abilities. Of course no cue makes "you" play better, except Predator according to their marketing materials. But it's like asking yourself if driving a Toyota Camry or a Porsche 911 makes you drive better? Of course it doesn't but it sure as hell FEELS better doing it. Pride of Ownership is a powerful placebo for the soul. Owning something that only a few other people or even that no other person owns is quite a great feeling for some folks.
Getting exactly what you dream of is also something people desire a lot. Getting a custom cue is one of the last remaining vestiges of the warrior spirit that we possess. We think of the famous swordmaker who is very picky about who he deigns to make a sword for, we think of the famous saddle makers, and gunsmiths and bow makers and for us the cue is the weapon and the cue maker is the master weapons maker.
So yeah, a cue COULD be worth all the hassle. But really the hassle shouldn't be there in the first place except that time ceases to function normally as a cue maker for a variety of reasons. Almost all of those reasons are correctable but few makers start out thinking of the order process as a complete cycle.
If we all treated our orders like Waffle House then things would go a lot better. Order in, fry it up, order out. Every cue should have a dedicated cycle of production. (I am expounding on my own thoughts of what I should do here) That cycle includes every aspect from curing to design to the tip. But since most small makers are not business people they aren't prepared for an order in/out environment. So it would be prudent for cue buyers to keep that in mind when making an order.
Could be. Unless what the dealer has fits what you are looking for.
Again you are not entirely clear here. Going through the list is not always a problem. It's missing deadlines and broken promises that is the problem.
When the question is whether it's worth paying up to double to acquire a cue without the wait and the headache then I say of course it is if this is something you truly desire and just can't live without. Convenience almost always costs more and often MUCH more. It's why FedEx exists.
Dealers exist to be that buffer and keep cues in stock for those who don't want to wait. Since customers exist who are able and willing to pay it's a perfect relationship.
Is anything ever really worth it?
Well, beauty being in the eye of the beholder, the answer is yes of course on one hand and no, not really on the other. Any bauble, which is all a cue really is, is not necessary to life. However if the cue is really done nicely then the wait and the headaches, if any, become a sort of badge of honor. It was hell boys but look at this beauty, like squeezing blood from a stone to get Armand to return my calls but damn if he didn't come through..........
Which is all to say that it is up to each individual to determine what it's worth to them.
As I said in a previous post I hope that sooner rather than later we don't have to put that choice to any of our customers.
And that's on me to make that happen.
I completely agree, hence why my cue maker of choice is Adam Franks. I deal direct with the man, his prices are more than fair, his work is beyond what you pay for and his cues perform amazing. Not to mention, he is a man of integrity and therefore can be trusted. The only thing is he's never on time but he's usually not far off schedule either. I can't wait for my new one of a kind to be ready between late April and June this year!
Its not the arrow its the Indian, its not the sword its the Samurai, its not the gun its the shooter, its not the car its the driver, its not the tool its the craftsman, its not the cue its the cueist, etc etc etc. Why do they all want the best they can get their hands on (or afford)? I'm sure there's a reason...
