are custom cues really worth the $ ?

[StuartK35]

nice cue

Here's the thing that one needs to ask themselves when considering commissioning a custom cue.....are you trying to keep up with the 'Joneses' and looking for an investment, or are you just wanting something uniquely your own to play with?

Is the 'cue maker du juor' investment of today, still going to be the 'cue maker du juor' investment tomorrow? Are you willing to wait 5-10 years on the hope that you were important enough to the maker that your 'spot' wasn't skipped in favor of another? Are you willing to shell out the sheckles?

If you are just looking for a nice player uniquely your own, there are plenty of makers who will not break the bank, whose waiting list is typically less than a year, who will deliver exactly what you want...providing you were very detailed with your specs....in a reasonable time-frame.

For me...this is about as 'loaded' as I want a cue to be:

I am not nervous about taking it out to play with...and it doesn't scream 'custom cue' to most of the locals. The cue plays every bit as good as I had hoped it would...maybe even better. Beginning to end, the build took <9 months. All top grade materials. Total investment was <$1500. No hiccups, no issues, no excuses...a completely stressless and enjoyable experience. Would do it again in a heartbeat!! Will it retain it's value?...I don't know, and frankly, don't care...it's worth every penny to me, and that's all that matters.

Lisa

Looks like a sweet Josey, very nice! Wow do they play beautifully!

 

[KRJ]

Because they are functional pieces of art. They play well and they look great. Yes, most can shoot with any decent cue if it is straight and has a good tip. How many other sports have equipment that is as detailed and beautiful as pool cues? How many other folks play with their equipment for decades?

Heck, my car will dirve just fine with hubcaps, but for some odd reason it was built with very nice wheels attached, that even then I took them off and bought chrome wheels to replace them. Why, cause it looks better.

Same with cues. I don't buy a cue somebody else will like, but what I like. I like full splice cues with veneers, it's a sickness that has no cure. I don't collect, I play with my cues.

Not even sure why there is always a new thread about this. We have choices in everything we buy, each and every day. This is another one of those choices that some folks prefer,,,,,

Even production cues have some pretty ornate inlays and such.... why you suppose that is? Cater to all segments of the market, SP for folks being practical, mass production inlay for others, and custom production for the rest..... and custom for folks that what something even more different.

 

[TheBook]

A buddy that was with me a few years ago at the Derby bought a cue by a well known in demand cue maker for around $3900. He wanted it because it because it was by a maker that only makes full splice cues. Played with it and didn't like the color of the wrap and wanted a thinner shaft. Had one shaft turned down while there and the wrap changed. Still didn't like it. I played with it before and after and it was by far one of the worse cues that I have ever played with. Everywhere he went people would ask if they could try the cue after he bragged about having one. Everyone that tried it shook their head as they couldn't believe how bad the cue felt. There was a certain AZ member that kept hounding him to sell that cue to him and he finally did because it was such a POS. Thru the past few years it was amazing to see the trail of that cue as it is always popping up somewhere. The last I seen it was selling for over $5000.


The cue looks nice but there is just something about it that it that doesn't feel right. I don't even think Mosconi could play with it.




.

 

[Chopdoc]

A buddy that was with me a few years ago at the Derby bought a cue by a well known in demand cue maker for around $3900. He wanted it because it because it was by a maker that only makes full splice cues. Played with it and didn't like the color of the wrap and wanted a thinner shaft. Had one shaft turned down while there and the wrap changed. Still didn't like it. I played with it before and after and it was by far one of the worse cues that I have ever played with. Everywhere he went people would ask if they could try the cue after he bragged about having one. Everyone that tried it shook their head as they couldn't believe how bad the cue felt. There was a certain AZ member that kept hounding him to sell that cue to him and he finally did because it was such a POS. Thru the past few years it was amazing to see the trail of that cue as it is always popping up somewhere. The last I seen it was selling for over $5000.


The cue looks nice but there is just something about it that it that doesn't feel right. I don't even think Mosconi could play with it.




.

Things like that do happen.

If I were the maker I would want to get that thing back in my shop to figure it out. Even if it meant buying the cue. I feel that an owner would be open to working with the maker on it though and some kind of a deal could be struck. For a known maker and a "higher end" cue I would think such action would be appropriate no matter how many hands it went through.

But that's just me......

 

[jhanso18]

with out getting into specific points of oppinion on art. The build quality and playability, of a custom cue is usually far superior. A good friend of mine has a plain jane Keith Kustom, and i have heard atleast 7 different people how have several years under there belt say it is by far the best playing cue they have ever shot with. this is opinion, but i share that opinion as well, and think though it might not be the "BEST" cue ever built, for $395, it was money way better spent than on a Mcdermott, Lucasi, or even Schone, etc.

When it comes to higher dollar cues such as $1k+ cues, it is more a since of pride and/or taste in art. the way the cue was made or the concept was dreamed up, add's or takes away value based on opinion.

so to answere the question yes, and no. art/ cues are only worth what some one will pay for them. so it is hard to argue with any cue being sold, for any amount of money, that it is not "worth it"

just my $.02,

Justin

 

[classiccues]

A buddy that was with me a few years ago at the Derby bought a cue by a well known in demand cue maker for around $3900. He wanted it because it because it was by a maker that only makes full splice cues. Played with it and didn't like the color of the wrap and wanted a thinner shaft. Had one shaft turned down while there and the wrap changed. Still didn't like it. I played with it before and after and it was by far one of the worse cues that I have ever played with. Everywhere he went people would ask if they could try the cue after he bragged about having one. Everyone that tried it shook their head as they couldn't believe how bad the cue felt. There was a certain AZ member that kept hounding him to sell that cue to him and he finally did because it was such a POS. Thru the past few years it was amazing to see the trail of that cue as it is always popping up somewhere. The last I seen it was selling for over $5000.

The cue looks nice but there is just something about it that it that doesn't feel right. I don't even think Mosconi could play with it.

.

Definately happens... some people cannot get used to the cue, even if it is by the best of makers.

How would you like being a dealer and having someone test out a 3500 dollar cue and it's apparent the guy should buy a 1500 dollar cue and spend 2000 on lessons?

JV

 

[Ghosst]

Here's the deal to anyone interested in ordering a custom cue....do your homework!!!! Do a search for your desired maker, and read the comments...ALL THE COMMENTS!

If you are looking for a smooth experience, then stay away from those makers who continue to periodically have 'issues'. Seems pretty simple to me.

Sage advice there, and something I'm in the process of myself for my next custom. You could add; asking people who own a custom cue from a low-volume cuemaker about their experiences as another source of information. Not every bad turn of events gets posted for everyone to read about but in private, past customers might be willing to divulge more information.

 

[qbilder]

The reality is this....Eric has time-management issues, plain and simple. There are only but so many balls that only one man can juggle...and he's trying to juggle a lot. But he's not the only one. There's no denying the man can build a cue, and has a great passion for it...but he needs help. Some of us just have a harder time asking for it than others. I do not honestly feel his actions are intentional...he's just overwhelmed.

Sorry to pick you out of a crowd or single you out. There are others who do not know me or know anything about me or that have ever dealt with me, but feel they are some kind of authority to judge & explain what or who I am about. Everything you have written above is absolute fictional, pretend, make believe, figment of imagination. It's this alter ago second life personality so many people assume on these forums as if this is a second life they are part of & it must be real because it's written. It's not just you. Almost everybody who bashes on me & started this whole dramatic nonsense, and all supporting it, have no clue who I actually am or would even know it if I was in line behind them at wal-mart.

Fact is, I have never advertised or asked for anybody to try my cues. I have never went out actively promoting my cues or trying to sell them. I have always built cues FOR ME, my fun time thing. Never have I pretended or tried to be anything else. People who actually know me, understand this. People who have no clue or have never spoken with me, or simply ignore the things I have said since the very beginning, seem to be the ones who judge & act holier than thou. Yall make accusations & describe me & my character, without knowing me at all. It's mind boggling. The biggest self proclaimed born again Christian uses his religion as a measure of how great he is & why you should buy the cues he deals, but he's always involved in these negative threads with some self righteous judgement to pass on me & speaks of how high I will fall from such a high horse. The guy has never worked with me or even really spoken with me. Ironic, huh? The people who have the worst opinions & judgements are those who know the least. In fact, everybody in this thread talking trash like they know something, actually know me very minimal to not at all.

I manage my time well. I manage my life well. I don't need help. I have a wonderful home, two brilliant & loving children, a wife who loves me & shares life with me, all the cool toys a grown man could desire, no bills unpaid or kids hungry. Exactly what do I need help with? Especially from the point of view of a stranger who only frequents the same online forums I do? I was born into a supportive, happy family. I had a great childhood. I grew up & served my country for 7 years, then stayed at home to be a father & husband. I am a full time student, able to see my kids off to school & see them home every day. I get to take them ATVing every weekend, family trips around the globe, introduce them to endless new cultures & places. This is my life, not yours, not anybody else. I choose my own priorities. After spending time with my family, studying, doing all necessary honey-does, I may or may not have time in my shop for myself to relax & work on cues. If enough time after that, I may be able to frequent the forums or answer some of the literally thousands of emails I have. If I don't have time, it doesn't happen. And what if it doesn't?

If I don't spend time with my kids then i'm a bad father. If I do not spend time with my wife then i'm a bad husband. If I neglect either, i'm an unhappy man because I love my family & cherish that time. If I neglect school then it's pointless and a waste even being a student, and I will not get the degrees I am pursuing. If I neglect honey-does then i'm not pulling my share of parental & marital duty and therefore strain my family. Any of this stuff sucks if managed poorly. It's life critical, happiness critical.

If I am slow on cue work or communication with cue buyers, then people I don't even know get pissed off at me & say bad things about me. They start a mob bash on me & my personal character, exclaiming how horrible of a human I am. The few times I do actually get time to get online to the forums, I get to see it all unfolding. I get to see how a bunch of people who do not know me or anything about me, will judge & ridicule me as if I purposely ran over their dog or sold their children into slavery. It's ridiculous, sometimes comic, always pathetic. Sometimes I wonder if it's even really possible that people can be so ignorant yet presumptuous. They are. It's real.

So why should I care? Why should I need "help"? Why should I prioritize cues and sacrifice a very happy life? Because you, or anybody else on this forum, speculates that I should? I don't need cues, never have. I enjoy cues. I don't advertise or beg people to buy them. They approach me. I don't lie or pretend i'm anything different. I'm not arrogant or dishonorable. I'm actually brutally truthful & blunt. But that's not dramatic enough, is it? I can't be a happy cue maker who doesn't care about business or your money because my life is better than that. I can't just be a cue lover who enjoys building cues for the sheer enjoyment. Nope. I gotta kiss everybody's ass & make promises on timelines, then keep those promises by sacrificing my life & time with family so I can be in my shop for 18hrs. a day. That's pretty much the gist of it, isn't it? I have to be a lowly, poor, sad, depressed, hungry cue maker who only wants in life to meet your deadline with a god cue for cheap, and just pray that you appreciate my efforts & sacrifice enough that you'll get on AZbilliards & say something nice about me. Then I can get to do it all over again and build a life of it. Screw you, screw that. I'll give my shop & woods away to some pathetic fool before i'd ever fall into that trap. For that reason alone, I am slow & likely will not meet a deadline if you are (un)lucky enough for me to set one in the first place. I have a life to live & your money doesn't support it. If I get a cue done & you want it, then ok. If not, that's ok, too. Why hate me for it? Ironically, I see so many new guys working so hard to get into cue making so they can make a name for themselves. They're too retarded to look around & see what it's actually all about. I was. But no more. My real life is my priority. Like it or not. And no, I don't need "help" with it.

 

[JMW]

Sorry to pick you out of a crowd or single you out. There are others who do not know me or know anything about me or that have ever dealt with me, but feel they are some kind of authority to judge & explain what or who I am about. Everything you have written above is absolute fictional, pretend, make believe, figment of imagination. It's this alter ago second life personality so many people assume on these forums as if this is a second life they are part of & it must be real because it's written. It's not just you. Almost everybody who bashes on me & started this whole dramatic nonsense, and all supporting it, have no clue who I actually am or would even know it if I was in line behind them at wal-mart.

Fact is, I have never advertised or asked for anybody to try my cues. I have never went out actively promoting my cues or trying to sell them. I have always built cues FOR ME, my fun time thing. Never have I pretended or tried to be anything else. People who actually know me, understand this. People who have no clue or have never spoken with me, or simply ignore the things I have said since the very beginning, seem to be the ones who judge & act holier than thou. Yall make accusations & describe me & my character, without knowing me at all. It's mind boggling. The biggest self proclaimed born again Christian uses his religion as a measure of how great he is & why you should buy the cues he deals, but he's always involved in these negative threads with some self righteous judgement to pass on me & speaks of how high I will fall from such a high horse. The guy has never worked with me or even really spoken with me. Ironic, huh? The people who have the worst opinions & judgements are those who know the least. In fact, everybody in this thread talking trash like they know something, actually know me very minimal to not at all.

I manage my time well. I manage my life well. I don't need help. I have a wonderful home, two brilliant & loving children, a wife who loves me & shares life with me, all the cool toys a grown man could desire, no bills unpaid or kids hungry. Exactly what do I need help with? Especially from the point of view of a stranger who only frequents the same online forums I do? I was born into a supportive, happy family. I had a great childhood. I grew up & served my country for 7 years, then stayed at home to be a father & husband. I am a full time student, able to see my kids off to school & see them home every day. I get to take them ATVing every weekend, family trips around the globe, introduce them to endless new cultures & places. This is my life, not yours, not anybody else. I choose my own priorities. After spending time with my family, studying, doing all necessary honey-does, I may or may not have time in my shop for myself to relax & work on cues. If enough time after that, I may be able to frequent the forums or answer some of the literally thousands of emails I have. If I don't have time, it doesn't happen. And what if it doesn't?

If I don't spend time with my kids then i'm a bad father. If I do not spend time with my wife then i'm a bad husband. If I neglect either, i'm an unhappy man because I love my family & cherish that time. If I neglect school then it's pointless and a waste even being a student, and I will not get the degrees I am pursuing. If I neglect honey-does then i'm not pulling my share of parental & marital duty and therefore strain my family. Any of this stuff sucks if managed poorly. It's life critical, happiness critical.

If I am slow on cue work or communication with cue buyers, then people I don't even know get pissed off at me & say bad things about me. They start a mob bash on me & my personal character, exclaiming how horrible of a human I am. The few times I do actually get time to get online to the forums, I get to see it all unfolding. I get to see how a bunch of people who do not know me or anything about me, will judge & ridicule me as if I purposely ran over their dog or sold their children into slavery. It's ridiculous, sometimes comic, always pathetic. Sometimes I wonder if it's even really possible that people can be so ignorant yet presumptuous. They are. It's real.

So why should I care? Why should I need "help"? Why should I prioritize cues and sacrifice a very happy life? Because you, or anybody else on this forum, speculates that I should? I don't need cues, never have. I enjoy cues. I don't advertise or beg people to buy them. They approach me. I don't lie or pretend i'm anything different. I'm not arrogant or dishonorable. I'm actually brutally truthful & blunt. But that's not dramatic enough, is it? I can't be a happy cue maker who doesn't care about business or your money because my life is better than that. I can't just be a cue lover who enjoys building cues for the sheer enjoyment. Nope. I gotta kiss everybody's ass & make promises on timelines, then keep those promises by sacrificing my life & time with family so I can be in my shop for 18hrs. a day. That's pretty much the gist of it, isn't it? I have to be a lowly, poor, sad, depressed, hungry cue maker who only wants in life to meet your deadline with a god cue for cheap, and just pray that you appreciate my efforts & sacrifice enough that you'll get on AZbilliards & say something nice about me. Then I can get to do it all over again and build a life of it. Screw you, screw that. I'll give my shop & woods away to some pathetic fool before i'd ever fall into that trap. For that reason alone, I am slow & likely will not meet a deadline if you are (un)lucky enough for me to set one in the first place. I have a life to live & your money doesn't support it. If I get a cue done & you want it, then ok. If not, that's ok, too. Why hate me for it? Ironically, I see so many new guys working so hard to get into cue making so they can make a name for themselves. They're too retarded to look around & see what it's actually all about. I was. But no more. My real life is my priority. Like it or not. And no, I don't need "help" with it.

Nice post. I understand what you are saying and I admire your devotion to family. I think you have the correct priorities in life. I agree that it is very difficult to juggle school, work, wife and kids. You are a part time cue maker that makes cues for your own enjoyment. That’s cool. You make a very nice cue in your spare time.

That being said, I would never order a cue from you because you have too many other competing priorities. Nothing wrong with that, but making me a cue is obviously not a priority for you. I can respect that.

 

[Fatboy]

after reading a thread about having problems with yet another cue maker that has been added to the list i have seen posted on here i have to wonder if custom cues are worth the aggravation and money.

i have never dealt with a custom cue maker and therefore am not going to bash any of them but after reading so many horror stories on here about peoples dealings with them i have to wonder if they are worth it.
i also will not question their craftmanship or attention to detail.

my question is are they really worth the 5-10 year wait ? is getting the weight, pin , joint, rings or the design you want worth the unanswered calls or e mails you make ? or the outright lies they give you on a completion date ? when you finally get your hands on it does it actually make you play better than a production cue would ?

my next question concerns going through a dealer, now let me say i have nothing against anyone making money anyway they can legally.

if you do not want to wait or go through the hassle with a cuemaker a dealer is the way to go. but that defeats the argument of you getting a custom to your specs dont it ? thats the reason you want a custom in the 1st place right ?

if you see a cue that a dealer or flipper has , is it worth paying up to double what the cuemaker charges just so you do not have to go through the waiting list ?

curious as to what your thoughts are.

sometimes paying double wont speed things up, also it takes a long time to make a cue, the time between cuts on the wood to relieve the stress is a lengthy process. So no matter how much $$$ you throw at a cue maker, nothing can speed up the process-unless you get a cue thats already in production. Like fine wine it takes time, there is nothing that can speed up the cue building process.

Now on to the biz side of cue making, if a cue maker creates demand and had a long list he might build 12 cues a year for $10,000 each and Gross $120,000, if he works from home he might net $100,000. If he has a big shop and high overhead he is in trouble grossing $120,000/yr. Sticking to the guy working at home building 10 cues a year, if he started building 20-25 cues a year the demand would drop and his cues might fetch $5,000-$7,000 which would adjust his gross up to $140,000-$150,000 +/- a few thousand. and he would have to work twice as hard and the cues wouldnt be as good of quality because he is working faster/harder not smarter. So creating demand and not over building is a smart way to build cues.


Thats why some cue makers get 2X 3X the $$$ for their cues compaired to other cue makers. Are the big $$$ cues worth the $$$??? That depends on your personal opinion and the market when you go to sell a cue. I have made piles of $$ on cues and lost piles on other cues, over all flipping cues over the years i have came out good, not great. I have bought cues taking the worst of it because I loved the cue and didnt care about $$$. Other times I have made mistakes and have got lucky too.


so are cues worth the $$$, you will know when you go to sell what you bought. Throwing $$$ at cue makers is a mistake IMO, I order cues from cue makers just to support them and give them business, I dont expect to get cues faster than anyone else, and sometimes I do and sometimes I wait longer than their other customers. Cue makers pick their customers and its their decision how long you wait. I respect that, and they respect me.

I think that demanding a cue from a cue maker on a dead line is a mistake, because shit happens building cues. I think a cue maker who demands a ton of $$$ up front from a customer is taking a chance because shit happens and that can damage their reputation as a cue builder.


Learning how to buy cues is never talked about on AZB, cue builders are artists and they need time, space, room to create. Trying to push them into a cue on a deadline will not ever get you very far with any good cue maker. A thread on how to "Buy a custom cue" is what is really needed. its not like buying a microwave or tires. If you think about it when you buy different things in life the nature of those transactions are different. A house deal is different than buying a office building or a pizza. Think about that, the first time you called Domino's to buy a pizza you had to learn how to buy a pizza, now its second nature. One time in the 80's I saw some old people walk into a McDonalds and sit down, they were waiting for someone to take their order. I politely told them to go to the counter and order there-they had no idea what they were doing. And IMO thats the case with lots of 1st time cue buyers, it aint the cue maker it's the buyer not knowing how the biz works.


best,

Fatboy

PS: not that it really matters but i'm kinda back,

 

[Fatboy]

Sorry to pick you out of a crowd or single you out. There are others who do not know me or know anything about me or that have ever dealt with me, but feel they are some kind of authority to judge & explain what or who I am about. Everything you have written above is absolute fictional, pretend, make believe, figment of imagination. It's this alter ago second life personality so many people assume on these forums as if this is a second life they are part of & it must be real because it's written. It's not just you. Almost everybody who bashes on me & started this whole dramatic nonsense, and all supporting it, have no clue who I actually am or would even know it if I was in line behind them at wal-mart.

Fact is, I have never advertised or asked for anybody to try my cues. I have never went out actively promoting my cues or trying to sell them. I have always built cues FOR ME, my fun time thing. Never have I pretended or tried to be anything else. People who actually know me, understand this. People who have no clue or have never spoken with me, or simply ignore the things I have said since the very beginning, seem to be the ones who judge & act holier than thou. Yall make accusations & describe me & my character, without knowing me at all. It's mind boggling. The biggest self proclaimed born again Christian uses his religion as a measure of how great he is & why you should buy the cues he deals, but he's always involved in these negative threads with some self righteous judgement to pass on me & speaks of how high I will fall from such a high horse. The guy has never worked with me or even really spoken with me. Ironic, huh? The people who have the worst opinions & judgements are those who know the least. In fact, everybody in this thread talking trash like they know something, actually know me very minimal to not at all.

I manage my time well. I manage my life well. I don't need help. I have a wonderful home, two brilliant & loving children, a wife who loves me & shares life with me, all the cool toys a grown man could desire, no bills unpaid or kids hungry. Exactly what do I need help with? Especially from the point of view of a stranger who only frequents the same online forums I do? I was born into a supportive, happy family. I had a great childhood. I grew up & served my country for 7 years, then stayed at home to be a father & husband. I am a full time student, able to see my kids off to school & see them home every day. I get to take them ATVing every weekend, family trips around the globe, introduce them to endless new cultures & places. This is my life, not yours, not anybody else. I choose my own priorities. After spending time with my family, studying, doing all necessary honey-does, I may or may not have time in my shop for myself to relax & work on cues. If enough time after that, I may be able to frequent the forums or answer some of the literally thousands of emails I have. If I don't have time, it doesn't happen. And what if it doesn't?

If I don't spend time with my kids then i'm a bad father. If I do not spend time with my wife then i'm a bad husband. If I neglect either, i'm an unhappy man because I love my family & cherish that time. If I neglect school then it's pointless and a waste even being a student, and I will not get the degrees I am pursuing. If I neglect honey-does then i'm not pulling my share of parental & marital duty and therefore strain my family. Any of this stuff sucks if managed poorly. It's life critical, happiness critical.

If I am slow on cue work or communication with cue buyers, then people I don't even know get pissed off at me & say bad things about me. They start a mob bash on me & my personal character, exclaiming how horrible of a human I am. The few times I do actually get time to get online to the forums, I get to see it all unfolding. I get to see how a bunch of people who do not know me or anything about me, will judge & ridicule me as if I purposely ran over their dog or sold their children into slavery. It's ridiculous, sometimes comic, always pathetic. Sometimes I wonder if it's even really possible that people can be so ignorant yet presumptuous. They are. It's real.

So why should I care? Why should I need "help"? Why should I prioritize cues and sacrifice a very happy life? Because you, or anybody else on this forum, speculates that I should? I don't need cues, never have. I enjoy cues. I don't advertise or beg people to buy them. They approach me. I don't lie or pretend i'm anything different. I'm not arrogant or dishonorable. I'm actually brutally truthful & blunt. But that's not dramatic enough, is it? I can't be a happy cue maker who doesn't care about business or your money because my life is better than that. I can't just be a cue lover who enjoys building cues for the sheer enjoyment. Nope. I gotta kiss everybody's ass & make promises on timelines, then keep those promises by sacrificing my life & time with family so I can be in my shop for 18hrs. a day. That's pretty much the gist of it, isn't it? I have to be a lowly, poor, sad, depressed, hungry cue maker who only wants in life to meet your deadline with a god cue for cheap, and just pray that you appreciate my efforts & sacrifice enough that you'll get on AZbilliards & say something nice about me. Then I can get to do it all over again and build a life of it. Screw you, screw that. I'll give my shop & woods away to some pathetic fool before i'd ever fall into that trap. For that reason alone, I am slow & likely will not meet a deadline if you are (un)lucky enough for me to set one in the first place. I have a life to live & your money doesn't support it. If I get a cue done & you want it, then ok. If not, that's ok, too. Why hate me for it? Ironically, I see so many new guys working so hard to get into cue making so they can make a name for themselves. They're too retarded to look around & see what it's actually all about. I was. But no more. My real life is my priority. Like it or not. And no, I don't need "help" with it.

Now here is a perfect example of a cue builder who is a great friend of mine, I love Eric and his family, IMO he is the smartest cue builder in the biz for his age, his knowledge of wood is amazing. I asked him to build me a cue years ago and he is building it for me. I have waited much longer than most of his customers for it and when he is ready he will deliver it. I never ask him to "hurry up" etc. I know when Eric is ready and has what we planned in order he will build me a great cue. Until then he will be my friend, i will stand by my opinion of his cues, I do have 2 of them. One of which I used as a house cue for players coming to my house if they didnt have a cue. It was the only cue I loaned everyone and just about everyone loved it. One guy beat me for $15,000 with it(I didnt like that cue that night), LOL.


My point is simple, cue builders build cues for people based on their reasons, why eric has took longer to build me a cue is his business. I didnt see his post I just quoted, until i posted my last post. I almost mentioned his name when I said I have waited longer than some people for cues than others. When Eric is ready he will build me a cue that i'll keep forever. he knows I have 2 of his cues and perhaps thats why he is taking his time, the reason dont matter.


Eric, Sorry i didnt call you back, I owe you a call, soon as my cold is over i'll ring your phone, hope your well.


best

eric

PS: this is a honest to God coincidence that Eric posted above me, i didnt name names in the other post and thats the only reason I didnt say anything about it. This aint a nudge to hurry up Eric, if I have to wait 10 years thats cool. I chased a Gus a guy owned for 17 years until he sold it to me. patients is key in cue buying, and building too.

 

[ridewiththewind]

Sorry to pick you out of a crowd or single you out. There are others who do not know me or know anything about me or that have ever dealt with me, but feel they are some kind of authority to judge & explain what or who I am about. Everything you have written above is absolute fictional, pretend, make believe, figment of imagination. It's this alter ago second life personality so many people assume on these forums as if this is a second life they are part of & it must be real because it's written. It's not just you. Almost everybody who bashes on me & started this whole dramatic nonsense, and all supporting it, have no clue who I actually am or would even know it if I was in line behind them at wal-mart.

Fact is, I have never advertised or asked for anybody to try my cues. I have never went out actively promoting my cues or trying to sell them. I have always built cues FOR ME, my fun time thing. Never have I pretended or tried to be anything else. People who actually know me, understand this. People who have no clue or have never spoken with me, or simply ignore the things I have said since the very beginning, seem to be the ones who judge & act holier than thou. Yall make accusations & describe me & my character, without knowing me at all. It's mind boggling. The biggest self proclaimed born again Christian uses his religion as a measure of how great he is & why you should buy the cues he deals, but he's always involved in these negative threads with some self righteous judgement to pass on me & speaks of how high I will fall from such a high horse. The guy has never worked with me or even really spoken with me. Ironic, huh? The people who have the worst opinions & judgements are those who know the least. In fact, everybody in this thread talking trash like they know something, actually know me very minimal to not at all.

I manage my time well. I manage my life well. I don't need help. I have a wonderful home, two brilliant & loving children, a wife who loves me & shares life with me, all the cool toys a grown man could desire, no bills unpaid or kids hungry. Exactly what do I need help with? Especially from the point of view of a stranger who only frequents the same online forums I do? I was born into a supportive, happy family. I had a great childhood. I grew up & served my country for 7 years, then stayed at home to be a father & husband. I am a full time student, able to see my kids off to school & see them home every day. I get to take them ATVing every weekend, family trips around the globe, introduce them to endless new cultures & places. This is my life, not yours, not anybody else. I choose my own priorities. After spending time with my family, studying, doing all necessary honey-does, I may or may not have time in my shop for myself to relax & work on cues. If enough time after that, I may be able to frequent the forums or answer some of the literally thousands of emails I have. If I don't have time, it doesn't happen. And what if it doesn't?

If I don't spend time with my kids then i'm a bad father. If I do not spend time with my wife then i'm a bad husband. If I neglect either, i'm an unhappy man because I love my family & cherish that time. If I neglect school then it's pointless and a waste even being a student, and I will not get the degrees I am pursuing. If I neglect honey-does then i'm not pulling my share of parental & marital duty and therefore strain my family. Any of this stuff sucks if managed poorly. It's life critical, happiness critical.

If I am slow on cue work or communication with cue buyers, then people I don't even know get pissed off at me & say bad things about me. They start a mob bash on me & my personal character, exclaiming how horrible of a human I am. The few times I do actually get time to get online to the forums, I get to see it all unfolding. I get to see how a bunch of people who do not know me or anything about me, will judge & ridicule me as if I purposely ran over their dog or sold their children into slavery. It's ridiculous, sometimes comic, always pathetic. Sometimes I wonder if it's even really possible that people can be so ignorant yet presumptuous. They are. It's real.

So why should I care? Why should I need "help"? Why should I prioritize cues and sacrifice a very happy life? Because you, or anybody else on this forum, speculates that I should? I don't need cues, never have. I enjoy cues. I don't advertise or beg people to buy them. They approach me. I don't lie or pretend i'm anything different. I'm not arrogant or dishonorable. I'm actually brutally truthful & blunt. But that's not dramatic enough, is it? I can't be a happy cue maker who doesn't care about business or your money because my life is better than that. I can't just be a cue lover who enjoys building cues for the sheer enjoyment. Nope. I gotta kiss everybody's ass & make promises on timelines, then keep those promises by sacrificing my life & time with family so I can be in my shop for 18hrs. a day. That's pretty much the gist of it, isn't it? I have to be a lowly, poor, sad, depressed, hungry cue maker who only wants in life to meet your deadline with a god cue for cheap, and just pray that you appreciate my efforts & sacrifice enough that you'll get on AZbilliards & say something nice about me. Then I can get to do it all over again and build a life of it. Screw you, screw that. I'll give my shop & woods away to some pathetic fool before i'd ever fall into that trap. For that reason alone, I am slow & likely will not meet a deadline if you are (un)lucky enough for me to set one in the first place. I have a life to live & your money doesn't support it. If I get a cue done & you want it, then ok. If not, that's ok, too. Why hate me for it? Ironically, I see so many new guys working so hard to get into cue making so they can make a name for themselves. They're too retarded to look around & see what it's actually all about. I was. But no more. My real life is my priority. Like it or not. And no, I don't need "help" with it.

I think you may have misunderstood what I was actually trying to say....but it's the internet, and that happens a lot. I am certainly not bashing you or anyone else. My only real experience with you concerning a potential order was when I sent you a PM via JA concerning if there was any interest on a project I was considering you for, and I never received a response back. As a result of that lack of response, I was left only with the assumption that you were not interested in the project...so I moved on to another maker. No harm, no foul...it worked out for me in the end.

I understand you have priorities (family) and that building cues takes a back seat to that. I get it, I do. I have worked with another maker whose priorities are almost identical...and yes, the wait time was long. I knew that going in, and had no issue with it. The difference here is that the maker I worked with did/does answer his email and phone calls....not that there was a lot to answer. In the case of my PM to you...I was looking for a simple 'yay' or 'nay'. I wasn't going to hurt my feelings if you chose to decline, for whatever reason...but some sort of response would have been nice. Instead, I was left to draw my own conclusions, right or wrong.

You are right in that I am assuming that your reason for not communicating with customers was a time management issue...given family and other priorities. I want to believe it is not meant to be intentional.....because the converse would only support those' arguments that your reason for not communicating is because you simply don't care. I really don't want to believe that. I was simply trying to say that if perhaps you had someone who could deal with that aspect of the business for you, these types of discussions would virtually cease to exist. I only see it as a win-win.....the customers get answers, and you don't have to deal with this crap anymore.

I have a great deal of respect for you....I cannot thank you (and your wife) enough for your service to our country....truly. I also cannot think of another maker who goes to the lengths that you do to supply your own woods to your stock...that's crazy cool. Seeing these types of threads makes me uncomfortable...one can only imagine how it makes the makers involved feel. But sadly, when customers continue to feel ignored or left out in the dark...these types of threads will continue. It especially saddens me when the solution appears to be so simple.

Lisa

 

[penguin]

There are others who do not know me or know anything about me or that have ever dealt with me, but feel they are some kind of authority to judge & explain what or who I am about.

Many will judge you by your treatment, or mis-treatment, of your customers. That is all they need to know.

But, it would be nice for potential buyers of your cues to know if they order a cue from you will they feel like they are getting jerked around...

...or if they have a problem with one of your cues that they already own (since there seems to be a few up for sale at, IMO, inflated prices) will you stand behind your work in a reasonable manner, or will they get jerked around some more?


Myself, I choose to make judgements about your business practices based on things like this...

I think the people defending him are forgetting a few points, points he has not contradicted (unlike others) so I take to be true:

1) Eric kept a fairly straightforward repair job on the shelf for 2 years

2) Eric said multiple times he would return the cue "real soon" and didn't.

3) When the cue was finally sold in frustrated disgust, Eric shipped it off to his personal friend the next day.

Other people have confirmed similar treatment. It's one thing to have an open-ended order that might take years. It's another thing to keep a person's cue, one that the customer has paid money for and so is his property, for an unnecessarily long time and to dodge responsibility for your promise, then to ship it off to a friend immediately.

However, you can still sleep well knowing that plenty of people will continue to kiss your a** because they want a cue from you, or that selling your cues puts money in their pocket.


To answer the OP's question... Are custom cues worth the money?

If you want to buy yourself a status symbol in the pool world, then sure.

If all you care about is playing good pool, then no.

Of course, there is plenty of middle ground in there somewhere, but with more cuemaker "problems" appearing by the day, I think your money is best spent elsewhere.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[JB Cases]

Sorry to pick you out of a crowd or single you out. There are others who do not know me or know anything about me or that have ever dealt with me, but feel they are some kind of authority to judge & explain what or who I am about. Everything you have written above is absolute fictional, pretend, make believe, figment of imagination. It's this alter ago second life personality so many people assume on these forums as if this is a second life they are part of & it must be real because it's written. It's not just you. Almost everybody who bashes on me & started this whole dramatic nonsense, and all supporting it, have no clue who I actually am or would even know it if I was in line behind them at wal-mart.

Fact is, I have never advertised or asked for anybody to try my cues. I have never went out actively promoting my cues or trying to sell them. I have always built cues FOR ME, my fun time thing. Never have I pretended or tried to be anything else. People who actually know me, understand this. People who have no clue or have never spoken with me, or simply ignore the things I have said since the very beginning, seem to be the ones who judge & act holier than thou. Yall make accusations & describe me & my character, without knowing me at all. It's mind boggling. The biggest self proclaimed born again Christian uses his religion as a measure of how great he is & why you should buy the cues he deals, but he's always involved in these negative threads with some self righteous judgement to pass on me & speaks of how high I will fall from such a high horse. The guy has never worked with me or even really spoken with me. Ironic, huh? The people who have the worst opinions & judgements are those who know the least. In fact, everybody in this thread talking trash like they know something, actually know me very minimal to not at all.

I manage my time well. I manage my life well. I don't need help. I have a wonderful home, two brilliant & loving children, a wife who loves me & shares life with me, all the cool toys a grown man could desire, no bills unpaid or kids hungry. Exactly what do I need help with? Especially from the point of view of a stranger who only frequents the same online forums I do? I was born into a supportive, happy family. I had a great childhood. I grew up & served my country for 7 years, then stayed at home to be a father & husband. I am a full time student, able to see my kids off to school & see them home every day. I get to take them ATVing every weekend, family trips around the globe, introduce them to endless new cultures & places. This is my life, not yours, not anybody else. I choose my own priorities. After spending time with my family, studying, doing all necessary honey-does, I may or may not have time in my shop for myself to relax & work on cues. If enough time after that, I may be able to frequent the forums or answer some of the literally thousands of emails I have. If I don't have time, it doesn't happen. And what if it doesn't?

If I don't spend time with my kids then i'm a bad father. If I do not spend time with my wife then i'm a bad husband. If I neglect either, i'm an unhappy man because I love my family & cherish that time. If I neglect school then it's pointless and a waste even being a student, and I will not get the degrees I am pursuing. If I neglect honey-does then i'm not pulling my share of parental & marital duty and therefore strain my family. Any of this stuff sucks if managed poorly. It's life critical, happiness critical.

If I am slow on cue work or communication with cue buyers, then people I don't even know get pissed off at me & say bad things about me. They start a mob bash on me & my personal character, exclaiming how horrible of a human I am. The few times I do actually get time to get online to the forums, I get to see it all unfolding. I get to see how a bunch of people who do not know me or anything about me, will judge & ridicule me as if I purposely ran over their dog or sold their children into slavery. It's ridiculous, sometimes comic, always pathetic. Sometimes I wonder if it's even really possible that people can be so ignorant yet presumptuous. They are. It's real.

So why should I care? Why should I need "help"? Why should I prioritize cues and sacrifice a very happy life? Because you, or anybody else on this forum, speculates that I should? I don't need cues, never have. I enjoy cues. I don't advertise or beg people to buy them. They approach me. I don't lie or pretend i'm anything different. I'm not arrogant or dishonorable. I'm actually brutally truthful & blunt. But that's not dramatic enough, is it? I can't be a happy cue maker who doesn't care about business or your money because my life is better than that. I can't just be a cue lover who enjoys building cues for the sheer enjoyment. Nope. I gotta kiss everybody's ass & make promises on timelines, then keep those promises by sacrificing my life & time with family so I can be in my shop for 18hrs. a day. That's pretty much the gist of it, isn't it? I have to be a lowly, poor, sad, depressed, hungry cue maker who only wants in life to meet your deadline with a god cue for cheap, and just pray that you appreciate my efforts & sacrifice enough that you'll get on AZbilliards & say something nice about me. Then I can get to do it all over again and build a life of it. Screw you, screw that. I'll give my shop & woods away to some pathetic fool before i'd ever fall into that trap. For that reason alone, I am slow & likely will not meet a deadline if you are (un)lucky enough for me to set one in the first place. I have a life to live & your money doesn't support it. If I get a cue done & you want it, then ok. If not, that's ok, too. Why hate me for it? Ironically, I see so many new guys working so hard to get into cue making so they can make a name for themselves. They're too retarded to look around & see what it's actually all about. I was. But no more. My real life is my priority. Like it or not. And no, I don't need "help" with it.

FWIW Eric this is the life every artist dreams of having. I'd go you one better and not even take orders. Why bother with people when you are at a point where anything you make will find a home?

I speak for myself that my dream life would be one where I was in my studio making whatever I wanted to make with no customers at all to deal with. Every once in a while I would open the door and push something out let the world consume it.

I find myself getting farther and farther from this dream but I think you are pretty much there as far as cues go.

 

[poke&hope]

Are custom cues worth the money

To waiting list cuemakers- yes
To cue flippers-yes
To me- No

 

[LAlouie]

after reading a thread about having problems with yet another cue maker that has been added to the list i have seen posted on here i have to wonder if custom cues are worth the aggravation and money.

i have never dealt with a custom cue maker and therefore am not going to bash any of them but after reading so many horror stories on here about peoples dealings with them i have to wonder if they are worth it.
i also will not question their craftmanship or attention to detail.

my question is are they really worth the 5-10 year wait ? is getting the weight, pin , joint, rings or the design you want worth the unanswered calls or e mails you make ? or the outright lies they give you on a completion date ? when you finally get your hands on it does it actually make you play better than a production cue would ?

my next question concerns going through a dealer, now let me say i have nothing against anyone making money anyway they can legally.

if you do not want to wait or go through the hassle with a cuemaker a dealer is the way to go. but that defeats the argument of you getting a custom to your specs dont it ? thats the reason you want a custom in the 1st place right ?

if you see a cue that a dealer or flipper has , is it worth paying up to double what the cuemaker charges just so you do not have to go through the waiting list ?

curious as to what your thoughts are.

If you're question the justification for buying a custon cue, then don't buy one. If you ever need one or think you need one, you'll know it and won't mind waiting for it.

 

[DASHZNT]

Custom cue just that.. CUSTOM!! The ones I get are completely one of a kind, made entirely by hand from scratch by the same person.. Beginning to end. This person usually has a few cues being made at the same time as well otherwise they wouldn't feed their families. This process takes time, plain and simple and also costs money because time and materials are not free.

I buy custom made suits and shirts and jeans, basically most my clothes for that matter and they cost alot of money, especially of you compare them to something off the rack, so to speak, but the fit perfect at every spot on my body, because they were made for me. The quality of the material is also high grade and they last longer and perform better. They take time to make as well, sometimes around 1-2 months depending.

Bottom line, you get what you pay for... When you're able to control every aspect of a product you're gonna buy, it will cost more because typically you'd like the best you can get for your money... And oh yeah, expect to wait a little bit too because nothing worthwhile happens in a flash.

Just my two cents, but what do I know!!

 

[pdcue]

since you are a cuemaker it sounds like you are taking this thread personaly.

i have not overstated or downplayed anything. mostly asked for opinions of what they thought about the issues of dealing with custom cuemakers.

i do not care for walmart personaly. last time i was in a walmart was last year.

i look at the cue gallery every time i log on, it is full of happy customers but the fact is still there that everytime a poster starts a thread complaining about certain cuemakers you have several more joining in with the same complaint. mostly poor customer service ie; missed deadlines, lack of communication and when you do hear from them it is outright lies.

let me explain my viewpoint on dealing with a customer.

i used to be a manager for a utility contractor. i had to go to a meeting with our major customer which happens to be the largest telephone provider in the us. we had just got a contract in a new area and wanted to go over some issues they were faced with, mainly a backlog of work they needed completed.

upon explaining the type of work, the area covered , amount of backlog involved and a projected volume of new work coming out i was required to immediatley give them a projected date of getting the backlog caught up and staying current on new projects.

upon doing some quick figuring i gave them a time frame. one of their managers stated that was not acceptable. i stated they did not get in that situation overnight and i coul not get them out of it overnight. one of them said that was not what he wanted to hear, i replied did he want me to say what he wanted to hear or did he want me to tell him the truth. their regional manager interjected and stated my timeframe was good enough for him if i could meet it. well it took some doin but i met it.

all i am saying is do not say the check is in the mail and you have not even wrote it out yet.

Reading and writing...

So, why did you say "Is it worth..." when what you really meant was
"I'm so smart I can tell cuemakers what they are doing wrong."

Dale

 

[pdcue]

Fat2.

This should be a sticky - IMHO

...................................................................................................

Learning how to buy cues is never talked about on AZB, cue builders are artists and they need time, space, room to create. Trying to push them into a cue on a deadline will not ever get you very far with any good cue maker. A thread on how to "Buy a custom cue" is what is really needed. its not like buying a microwave or tires. If you think about it when you buy different things in life the nature of those transactions are different. A house deal is different than buying a office building or a pizza. Think about that, the first time you called Domino's to buy a pizza you had to learn how to buy a pizza, now its second nature. One time in the 80's I saw some old people walk into a McDonalds and sit down, they were waiting for someone to take their order. I politely told them to go to the counter and order there-they had no idea what they were doing. And IMO thats the case with lots of 1st time cue buyers, it aint the cue maker it's the buyer not knowing how the biz works.
......................................................................................................

 

[whitewolf]

I have bought 4 plane Jane (2 cues with points) cues from custom cue makers and have come to the following conclusion:

I will never buy another custom cue again as long as I live. I would suggest to you that you go to a convention where there are a lot of cues, try them all, and buy the one you like on the spot. For me it is all about the FEEL of the cue.