You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time. It's a little harder to fool all the people all of the time.
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Are they still paying?
- Thread starter macguy
- Start date
About time for a lawsuit, or what? Linda? Randy? Anything going on?
justnum said:
Actually, BlackJack gave some very constructive remarks both before, during and after the debacle that was the IPT. Unfortunately, the voice of reason is inaudible to irrational people. All anyone was interested in was how to get a piece of that big money pie that Trudeau was supposedly serving up.
And some people made out well in the process. I doubt Mike Sigel is too upset with his take. I would like to think that Deno Andrews made a lot of money on the deal, since he sacrificed his reputation in the industry for it. Efren Reyes and Thorsten Hohmann did OK, as well as a few other players.
But Blackjack was right. It was a poor business model that was doomed from the start. All along, all I heard from the IPT cheerleaders was that Trudeau was doing something that no one else had ever tried before. Really?
History is full of entrepreneurs in the sports industry who through alot of money at players first without securing adequate sponsorship or building a fan base. Just google any of the following:
North American Soccer League (NASL)
World Hockey League/Association (WHL/A)
World Football League (WFL)
United States Football League (USFL)
There were several others, those are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head. And if you think these organizations were run by idiots who don't know anything about business, think again. Lamar Hunt was an owner and officer in the NASL. Donald Trump was an owner in the USFL.
So what Trudeau was trying wasn't that original. It's been done before, by better people and still failed. But bad business decisions are no crime. What is a crime is holding a tournament with a large "guaranteed" prize fund knowing full well that you don't have the money to pay. Especially after the way he derided the other promoters in the FAQ on his website with the joke about the pool player who said, "Winning the tournament was easy. Getting paid was the hard part." How's that for poetic justice?
That's the real shame of all this. The man didn't have the guts to say "This tournament is cancelled (sorry, postponed) because I don't have the money to pay". If he had done that, I, and probably others as well, would have a lot more respect for the man than we do presently.
Next, not only did he not pay, but he made up one lie after another about why the money was not there and when it would be paid. When he had used up one lie, he gave us another, just to stall everyone until he could come up with a plan to pay everyone off "when cash flow allows".
I think it's great that he's paying everyone (well, the players anyway), even if it is slowly. But I can't help thinking that he is only doing it because he couldn't find a better, or cheaper, way to avoid it.
But then what do I know? I'm just a prophet of doom...
Str8PoolMan said:
And a Realist!
justnum said:
Some people may be tired of hearing the bare, painful truth about the sleezebag named KT and his "Impossible Dream", the IPT. But that doesn't alter the fact that KT and his IPT did, and still is in the process of ripping off the entire pool community while further tarnishing the already shaky general reputation of the game and the people involved with it.
Others, likewise, are tired of hearing more cheerleading for a short lived, lie filled, non paying tour that did nothing more for pool than pay a handfull of top players while defrauding hundreds more, including vendors, hotels, advertisers, and production staff. The wreckage KT has left in the wake of the IPT is still felt by most of the players, supporters, and by all of the fans.
Unless one wants to count a massage, a buffet and fifteen minutes of fame as payment in full, the entire story is a tragedy.
As far as a "constructive remark", or a solution, is concerned... the window may have closed for the legal solution, and the other one that comes to mind is illegal.
Jim
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macguy said:
I'm not sure if they have "stopped" or not, I do know that some players are being hush-hush about the issue, which is understandable.
IMO, he is skipping the 2007 season to avoid payment of the promised salaries. I fully expect KT to crawl out from under his rock very soon and announce the new 2008 IPT season, which most likely will NOT include guaranteed salaries - and will most definitely include entry fees. Whether or not it survives depends upon whether or not he can generate enough income to justify the payouts. This has always been the main flaw in the IPT business model. I really don't believe its over yet.
Blackjack said:
That is all they needed to do in the first place. Put on like four "OPEN" tournaments a year with like $750,000 prize funds with entry fees and qualifiers. He can retain all the rights to the tournaments and market them as he wishes, TV sell products, what ever. All the players want to do is play and as a result many would gain some prominence and possibly parley it into something for themselves. He didn't need to reinvent the wheel or come up with all the contrived crap. Just put on the damn tournaments and market them. Isn't that supposed to be what he does best? As much as I hate the guy, he did and still does have the potential to be a good thing in the sport, but you never know.
IF there is any sound basis whatsoever for a belief that KT or A.N OTHER will resurface in 2008 or beyond with a new IPT Tour one of the historical stumbling blocks is going to be placating those who paid to play in pre-qualifiers for the scheduled "end of 2006 season qualifying tournament for 2007 cards".
IPT would almost certainly be able to buy off the winners of those events with a 2008 card. As regards those who entered and lost in such events, the reality is that they are unlikely to have the coherent group motivation or financial backing to do anything more tangible than loudly complain about it. Could see IPT offering them a free future qualifier entry (or two or three....) as compensation and that being accepted.
Honestly and sincerely don't mean the next bit as an insult or criticism of any player or backer or other personality, just a bit of realism.......on all known evidence it can be reasonably assumed that those 2006 card holders and 2006 non-tour-card-holding participants who are all still owed 45% of their prize money from Reno would one way or another eventually roll over and agree to waive most or all of it in return for "card" involvement in a new tour or in some cases cash credits against entry fees to future qualifying events. There may be the odd dissenting voice and a few refusals on points of principle to have anything to do with it but the reality once again is that those players who decline any such offer, no matter who they are or high profile they may be, would simply be left behind with hardly a backward glance when the new IPT bus sets off.
All of the above is of course dependent upon the very first IF word in this post.
However, would consider it right now to be not an "if" but a cast iron certainty that no-one has received or will ever receive one cent more than 55% of the owed amounts and that whether there is or isn't ever any revival of IPT, there is absolutely zero chance of KT or IPT ever facing any legal action over the 2006/2007 seasons prize monies or 'guarantees'.
IPT would almost certainly be able to buy off the winners of those events with a 2008 card. As regards those who entered and lost in such events, the reality is that they are unlikely to have the coherent group motivation or financial backing to do anything more tangible than loudly complain about it. Could see IPT offering them a free future qualifier entry (or two or three....) as compensation and that being accepted.
Honestly and sincerely don't mean the next bit as an insult or criticism of any player or backer or other personality, just a bit of realism.......on all known evidence it can be reasonably assumed that those 2006 card holders and 2006 non-tour-card-holding participants who are all still owed 45% of their prize money from Reno would one way or another eventually roll over and agree to waive most or all of it in return for "card" involvement in a new tour or in some cases cash credits against entry fees to future qualifying events. There may be the odd dissenting voice and a few refusals on points of principle to have anything to do with it but the reality once again is that those players who decline any such offer, no matter who they are or high profile they may be, would simply be left behind with hardly a backward glance when the new IPT bus sets off.
All of the above is of course dependent upon the very first IF word in this post.
However, would consider it right now to be not an "if" but a cast iron certainty that no-one has received or will ever receive one cent more than 55% of the owed amounts and that whether there is or isn't ever any revival of IPT, there is absolutely zero chance of KT or IPT ever facing any legal action over the 2006/2007 seasons prize monies or 'guarantees'.
Like many of you, I would love to see four or five $750,000 tournaments in 2008. But then reality rears it's ugly head and tells me we have seen the last of Trudough. He came, he saw, he lied, he left. That is his epitath.
As for the great Sigel, I think he will lay low until the whole IPT fiasco dies down, and is pretty much forgotten. However long that takes, maybe another year or two. He has tarnished his good name in the pool world, but he remains a legend and his renown will outlive his involvement with Trudough.
As for the other little goof who tried to throw his puny weight around, I think he will be hiding under his blanket for a long, long time. He managed to make a lot of enemies in a very short time. They might not all be so forgiving.
As for the great Sigel, I think he will lay low until the whole IPT fiasco dies down, and is pretty much forgotten. However long that takes, maybe another year or two. He has tarnished his good name in the pool world, but he remains a legend and his renown will outlive his involvement with Trudough.
As for the other little goof who tried to throw his puny weight around, I think he will be hiding under his blanket for a long, long time. He managed to make a lot of enemies in a very short time. They might not all be so forgiving.
D
Danny Harriman
Guest
There are unfortunately alot of people today who don't care about what there word means, while I do think Kevin's intentions were solid I also believe that he shares the Brady Behrman way of thinking. We all have issues however our word is our bond - and I think that many players can understand how I felt when Brady stiffed me and kept saying that the payments are going to come. This is no fifferent only on a larger scale, the type of person your dealing with is a weasel maybe some players may receive payments (possibly the ones that were invited.) As for me receiving anymore payments - the chances of that happening are about as good as a cloud crushing me during an early mornin' walk. I do hope that JAM is right but lets keep in mind Keith was one of the invites so he may be in their ivory tower. As for Deno Andrews I don't get good vibes from him at all, when I walked by him at the DCC he had a smug grin on his face after I had talked to him and he new I wanted in and was not. These people who get their rocks off from being in a position of power are weak and lack humility. They all share a common bond in that they want you to think there really smart, I guess we can hope but the clock is ticking and I'm afraid the IPT is worm food.
Sincerely, Danny Harriman
Sincerely, Danny Harriman
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Has anyone receive his September 15 check from IPT?
Schon-desi said:
nope not yet