Arrest made for Ivory smuggling

Fuji-whopper

Fargo: 457...play some?
Silver Member
This is the first time I have ever seen a story about someone being arrested for it, pictured is a LOT of Ivory!! It's kind of silly but I am glad they didn't mention pool cues as one of the items that are commonly used in illegal business, the guy wasn't smart to use Ebay as a fence though. He is looking at quite a bit of time, is Ivory that expensive these days?

Click me!!!

Anyone have any Ivory stories to tell?
 
Anyone have any Ivory stories to tell?

No... but I have a question to ask. On what basis do you know that cues are "are commonly used in illegal business"?

I get so tired of reading this crap that uneducated individuals post about ivory and elephants in regard to cues. I'm not saying that I factually know every cue on earth is made with ivory from estate tusks, but I can tell you that 100% of the cues made with ivory by the cuemakers I know and deal with are 100% legal.

Cuemakers are not going to the black market to buy ivory... it is not worth it to them. They use sources like Warther... please read through the website below so you better understand where the ivory used in cues comes from.

http://www.ivorybuyer.com/elephant2.htm
 
From what I have read new ivory is worthless since it has to age for something like 30 years or so.

Hopefully the ivory that they are confiscating is somehow making its way into the market. it would be a shame if its just being destroyed.:frown:
 
No... but I have a question to ask. On what basis do you know that cues are "are commonly used in illegal business"?

I get so tired of reading this crap that uneducated individuals post about ivory and elephants in regard to cues. I'm not saying that I factually know every cue on earth is made with ivory from estate tusks, but I can tell you that 100% of the cues made with ivory by the cuemakers I know and deal with are 100% legal.

Cuemakers are not going to the black market to buy ivory... it is not worth it to them. They use sources like Warther... please read through the website below so you better understand where the ivory used in cues comes from.

http://www.ivorybuyer.com/elephant2.htm


Jamie, I think he said that he was glad that cues weren't mentioned in the items that commonly use illegal ivory. Not that cues actually used illegal ivory.
 
Jamie, I think he said that he was glad that cues weren't mentioned in the items that commonly use illegal ivory. Not that cues actually used illegal ivory.


I read the comment as he is glad cues weren't mentioned because he believes they are commonly made with illegal ivory... I apologize if I misinterpreted the statement.

However, there are still a lot of misconceptions about ivory, elephants, and cues on this forum, so I wanted to provide a little info on the subject.
 
i agree jamie. in life too. i had an arguement with a older guy in the pool room about ivory. he insisted the ivory in cues isnt real ivory bc real ivory is illegal.

after about 30 minutes i said what the hell do you think thast mcdaniel you playing with has. 8 ivory diamonds in the butt 4 in each point ivory joint and ferrules.

i wanted to say you GD idiot. what do u think that stuff is?!?!?!? lol.. but i didnt
 
From what I have read new ivory is worthless since it has to age for something like 30 years or so.

Hopefully the ivory that they are confiscating is somehow making its way into the market. it would be a shame if its just being destroyed.:frown:

"From what I have read new ivory is worthless since it has to age for something like 30 years or so."

OK, let's explore this statement a little further. I may be a little confused with your motivation for making it.
These people risked half (if not more) of their remaining lives for something that is worthless?

The primary reason that ivory is poached is because there is a demand for it.
Demand creates the market and the level of demand sets the price.
Hardly worthless.

"Hopefully the ivory that they are confiscating is somehow making its way into the market. it would be a shame if its just being destroyed."

Is there no concern for the lives that were taken when the ivory was stolen from them? The elephant is a magnificent creature. I'm going to be very interested in the argument that man's vanity takes precedence over God's creations.
 
I wonder if found guilty in Court, he will have to serve his sentence at the L.A. Zoo Elephant House.

elephant_house1.jpg






By Kim Christensen

January 19, 2010 | 10:02 p.m.




The owner of a Claremont doughnut shop was indicted Tuesday on federal charges that he bought endangered-elephant ivory on EBay and smuggled it into the United States from Thailand three years ago.

Moun Chau, 50, of Montclair was charged with conspiracy and the illegal importation of wildlife, according to the indictment, which cited violations of the Endangered Species Act and the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species.

The alleged smuggling was discovered in November 2006 when authorities found four African elephant tusks in a shipment purported to be toys. With rare exception, the U.S. prohibits the importation of any ivory, federal officials said, because endangered elephants often are killed for their tusks to make jewelry, statues and other items.

"Buyers in the United States and elsewhere in the world are creating this market for ivory and feeding the poachers in Africa who are killing these animals," said Erin L. Dean, who heads the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's law enforcement office in Torrance.

Fish and wildlife agents tracked the shipment of tusks to Chau's business in Claremont, where they later seized dozens of ivory pieces. Samples of those items and others from undercover ivory purchases in Thailand were sent to Fish and Wildlife's forensic lab in Ashland, Ore., for DNA testing, which determined they were from endangered African elephants, Dean said.

A joint investigation by her agency and the Royal Thai Police, with help from animal welfare groups such as the Freeland Foundation, led to the indictment of Chau and his alleged accomplice in Thailand, Samart Chokchoyma, 36.

Besides conspiracy and smuggling, Chokchoyma was charged with several counts related to his alleged illegal sale of ivory via the Internet.

Assistant U.S. Atty. Bayron Gilchrist declined to put a dollar value on the alleged transactions, which occurred before EBay banned ivory sales in January 2009 -- after an animal welfare group reported that the Internet auction was listing thousands of items taken from endangered species.

Chokchoyma also faces charges in Thailand, where he was arrested Nov. 16 and accused of smuggling African ivory. Thai police this week arrested two other suspected ivory dealers, the Freeland Foundation said Tuesday.

If convicted, Chau faces up to 25 years in prison. He has not been arrested and will be summoned to appear for an arraignment next month in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles, officials said. Chau did not respond to messages left at his business Tuesday.

Chokchoyma could spend up to 53 years in prison. Gilchrist said prosecutors will monitor the Thai case before deciding whether to seek his extradition.

Tuesday's indictment reflects a fraction of an illegal trade in wildlife and endangered-animal products that, by various estimates, generates up to $20 billion a year.

"More than 10 metric tons of African elephant ivory have been seized in Southeast Asia during 2009 alone," Freeland Foundation said in a news release. "However, until this case, there had not been any arrests of ivory traffickers in the region."

kim.christensen@latimes.com

Copyright © 2010, The Los Angeles Times
 
This is the first time I have ever seen a story about someone being arrested for it, pictured is a LOT of Ivory!! It's kind of silly but I am glad they didn't mention pool cues as one of the items that are commonly used in illegal business, the guy wasn't smart to use Ebay as a fence though. He is looking at quite a bit of time, is Ivory that expensive these days?

Click me!!!

Anyone have any Ivory stories to tell?

I don't know but 10 METRIC TONS of African Elephant Ivory being seized in Southeast Asia and NOT ONE ARREST? That's quite a story by itself.

I will not order any cues in the future with ivory in them any longer, no matter if the cue makers call them pre-ban ivory or whatever... It's the right thing to do. It is apparent that market demands, keep the poor people killing the endangered species with reckless abandon.

I guess this is just another example of if the market demands it, the banditos will provide it.


JoeyA
 
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I don't know but 10 METRIC TONS of African Elephant Ivory being seized in Southeast Asia and NOT ONE ARREST? That's quite a story by itself.

I will not order and cues in the future with ivory in them any longer, no matter if the cue makers call them pre-ban ivory or whatever... It's the right thing to do. It is apparent that market demands, keep the poor people killing the endangered species with reckless abandon.

I guess this is just another example of if the market demands it, the banditos will provide it.


JoeyA

10 metric tons? The average tusk weight on 60yr. adult elephants is 77.5lbs., which is 135lbs for males & 20lbs for females. At 77.5lbs each, 155lbs per elephant, for 10 metric tons of tusk to be harvested in a year that means a general number of 142 elephants were killed. Given the world's elephant population of 700,000+, that's a decrease of population by .02%. That's 2 tenths of a single percent of the population being affected by poaching. 0.0000% of that .02% of illegal harvested tusks are being used in American made custom pool cues. And you feel urged to boycott ivory in custom cues over this?

I think this whole ivory thing is being blown way out of proportion. We assume that 142 elephants were killed for the 10 tons of ivory. But how many of those tusks, which only equal 284, were scavenged off of naturally deceased animals? That, too, is illegal but is not nearly as ethically wrong as killing an animal. We won't know because it doesn't matter to the law & doesn't make an exciting story. So assuming all 142 elephants were killed by poachers & didn't die of natural causes, that's still way less than the elephants that do die each year from natural causes. And exactly what happens to the tusks of the naturally deceased animals?

Either way, my point is that people don't understand this whole ivory situation nearly well enough to form the opinions that they so strongly hold on to. More humans die daily in a 700,000 population city than elephants are poached in a year. I'm by no means saying that killing elephants for decorative ivory is ok. It is wrong, ethically & morally wrong. But it's not so huge an issue that people shouldn't buy cues with ivory. It's nowhere near that big an issue. Especially considering that NO illegal ivory is even used in cues, it seems a bit fanatical to me to hear poeple claim they won't buy cues with ivory. Just my opinion, based on actual facts & not media BS.
 
i agree jamie. in life too. i had an arguement with a older guy in the pool room about ivory. he insisted the ivory in cues isnt real ivory bc real ivory is illegal.

after about 30 minutes i said what the hell do you think thast mcdaniel you playing with has. 8 ivory diamonds in the butt 4 in each point ivory joint and ferrules.

i wanted to say you GD idiot. what do u think that stuff is?!?!?!? lol.. but i didnt

LOL, happens all the time with McDaniel cues. Bill used the whitest nerve Ivory, you could hardly see the grain with the naked eye. Many people were wrong when they thought it was not Ivory.
 
"From what I have read new ivory is worthless since it has to age for something like 30 years or so."

OK, let's explore this statement a little further. I may be a little confused with your motivation for making it.


Yes, you are confused, because he was referring to seasoned Ivory used in cues, nothing else.
 
10 metric tons? The average tusk weight on 60yr. adult elephants is 77.5lbs., which is 135lbs for males & 20lbs for females. At 77.5lbs each, 155lbs per elephant, for 10 metric tons of tusk to be harvested in a year that means a general number of 142 elephants were killed. Given the world's elephant population of 700,000+, that's a decrease of population by .02%. That's 2 tenths of a single percent of the population being affected by poaching. 0.0000% of that .02% of illegal harvested tusks are being used in American made custom pool cues. And you feel urged to boycott ivory in custom cues over this?

I think this whole ivory thing is being blown way out of proportion. We assume that 142 elephants were killed for the 10 tons of ivory. But how many of those tusks, which only equal 284, were scavenged off of naturally deceased animals? That, too, is illegal but is not nearly as ethically wrong as killing an animal. We won't know because it doesn't matter to the law & doesn't make an exciting story. So assuming all 142 elephants were killed by poachers & didn't die of natural causes, that's still way less than the elephants that do die each year from natural causes. And exactly what happens to the tusks of the naturally deceased animals?

Either way, my point is that people don't understand this whole ivory situation nearly well enough to form the opinions that they so strongly hold on to. More humans die daily in a 700,000 population city than elephants are poached in a year. I'm by no means saying that killing elephants for decorative ivory is ok. It is wrong, ethically & morally wrong. But it's not so huge an issue that people shouldn't buy cues with ivory. It's nowhere near that big an issue. Especially considering that NO illegal ivory is even used in cues, it seems a bit fanatical to me to hear poeple claim they won't buy cues with ivory. Just my opinion, based on actual facts & not media BS.

It's nothing more than a "feel good" thing, and if that logic was applied to everything in their lives it would soon be abandoned.
 
10 metric tons? The average tusk weight on 60yr. adult elephants is 77.5lbs., which is 135lbs for males & 20lbs for females. At 77.5lbs each, 155lbs per elephant, for 10 metric tons of tusk to be harvested in a year that means a general number of 142 elephants were killed. Given the world's elephant population of 700,000+, that's a decrease of population by .02%. That's 2 tenths of a single percent of the population being affected by poaching. 0.0000% of that .02% of illegal harvested tusks are being used in American made custom pool cues. And you feel urged to boycott ivory in custom cues over this?

I think this whole ivory thing is being blown way out of proportion. We assume that 142 elephants were killed for the 10 tons of ivory. But how many of those tusks, which only equal 284, were scavenged off of naturally deceased animals? That, too, is illegal but is not nearly as ethically wrong as killing an animal. We won't know because it doesn't matter to the law & doesn't make an exciting story. So assuming all 142 elephants were killed by poachers & didn't die of natural causes, that's still way less than the elephants that do die each year from natural causes. And exactly what happens to the tusks of the naturally deceased animals?

Either way, my point is that people don't understand this whole ivory situation nearly well enough to form the opinions that they so strongly hold on to. More humans die daily in a 700,000 population city than elephants are poached in a year. I'm by no means saying that killing elephants for decorative ivory is ok. It is wrong, ethically & morally wrong. But it's not so huge an issue that people shouldn't buy cues with ivory. It's nowhere near that big an issue. Especially considering that NO illegal ivory is even used in cues, it seems a bit fanatical to me to hear poeple claim they won't buy cues with ivory. Just my opinion, based on actual facts & not media BS.

I just said that I wouldn't ORDER any cues with ivory in them.

I didn't even say that anyone who buys a cue that has ivory in it is a bad person but you're suggesting that I am fanatical because I choose not to order any cues with ivory in them is absurd.

Besides, if that is the volume of ILLEGAL IVORY that was confiscated (Just in Southeast Asia alone) , what amount of ILLEGAL IVORY escaped detection by the authorities?

Ivory for ferrules is passe since we now know a lot more about Squirt and end mass.

Holly looks much cleaner and better than Ivory so I would choose Holly as a subsitute for Ivory.

It's just a choice and one that I make for myself.

I can't live your life and don't expect you to live mine.

JoeyA
 
Does anyone else find it interesting that people get worked up over ivory and the death of animals but no one seems to care about the trees that get cut down for cues?


Isn't it like buying an electric car to save the planet and not caring about the strip mining to make the batteries and the fossil fuels to charge them?





<~~~always looks at both sides before taking a stand.
 
"From what I have read new ivory is worthless since it has to age for something like 30 years or so."

OK, let's explore this statement a little further. I may be a little confused with your motivation for making it.


Yes, you are confused, because he was referring to seasoned Ivory used in cues, nothing else.

Thanks for clearing up my comment. This is the point that I was trying to make. :thumbup2:
 
"Hopefully the ivory that they are confiscating is somehow making its way into the market. it would be a shame if its just being destroyed."

Is there no concern for the lives that were taken when the ivory was stolen from them? The elephant is a magnificent creature. I'm going to be very interested in the argument that man's vanity takes precedence over God's creations.

This is why it would be a shame if they just destroy the ivory. since the elephant is already dead :rolleyes:
 
Sorry if I was misunderstood, yes I meant that I am glad it wasn't on their list AT ALL regardless of what they called their list. Sorry about the bad wording, I forgot the AZBilliards semantics police are always out in force.

I'm well aware of pre-ban Ivory and was around when places like Best Billiards had tusks in 1995 when it was traded a little more freely. Again I am sorry for quoting the article wrong when stating how happy I was about pool and pool cues not being thought of as illegal in any way.
 
Ivory

The cuebuilders I know are very careful about who they buy ivory from and some of it is getting expensive.

Personally, I have never heard any stories about cue builders using illegal ivory, but I do know that the United States Fish & Wildlife is really cracking down on the laws, as well as the USPS.

Using Ebay to fence illegal ivory in this day & age wasn't too smart but it had nothing to do with cue building.
These days stuff that just looks like ivory is getting held up in customs.

My concern is getting straight answers on sending legally made cues with ivory into or out of the United States.
Can it be done, and do other countries care?
 
Just think of the Impact?

This is why it would be a shame if they just destroy the ivory. since the elephant is already dead :rolleyes:

10 metric tons?

Would that amount of IVORY being released to the open market diminish the demand, based on the supply and demad curve?:eek::eek:

Destroying it would probably end up in the slaughter of a bunch of more elephants to replace this inventory.
 
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