Arrest made for Ivory smuggling

The cuebuilders I know are very careful about who they buy ivory from and some of it is getting expensive.

Personally, I have never heard any stories about cue builders using illegal ivory, but I do know that the United States Fish & Wildlife is really cracking down on the laws, as well as the USPS.

Using Ebay to fence illegal ivory in this day & age wasn't too smart but it had nothing to do with cue building.
These days stuff that just looks like ivory is getting held up in customs.

My concern is getting straight answers on sending legally made cues with ivory into or out of the United States.
Can it be done, and do other countries care?


I am certainly no expert, but the way I understand it is that you cannot transport or ship ivory from one "State" to another. "State" meaning a country. Legal ivory is just ivory that we here in the US before the CITES ban on importing.

Having said that, if you ship or transport a cue with ivory out of the US, or into another "State", then it will be confiscated if they find it.

If I am wrong on this would someone please straighten me out as I would like to know. I did read up a little on this, but I can't be certain that my sources were 100% correct. I have not read the link listed earlier yet, but will tonight if I can.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
I guess I'm some kind of "fanatic" because I wouldn't have ivory in one of my cues, but truth of the matter is, I ONLY like wood inlays in my cues, or no inlays at all. I have nothing and I mean NOTHING against the use of ivory in a pool cue. I just want my cue to be all wood construction (except for the butt cap, joint, and ferrule/tip of course).

Of course, this thinking could get me in trouble with a serious "tree-hugger" I suppose.

Then there's the bovine/swine lovers that could rip me a new one for the materials used in the tips of my cues.

Geez, you just can't win, can you???

Maniac
 
ivory

It would be interesting to have some accurate data on how much legal ivory is available for cue making use in the USA.
 
Choosing not to get ivory in your cue because you simply do not like the material is completely a normal & acceptable choice anybody can make.

My word of "fanatical" was directed at people boycotting ivory in cues because they feel animals are being slaughtered to extinction just for the ivory & feel by not getting ivory in a cue will in some way put pressure on the poachers to stop. That is fanatical. As I pointed out, the problem is trivial & doesn't in any even cross ways with cues. So yeah, doing something or believing something extreme without cold true facts is indeed, "fanatical".
 
It would be interesting to have some accurate data on how much legal ivory is available for cue making use in the USA.


Me too. I do know of LOTS & LOTS of it but don't know about all of it. There's a bunch, to say the least. We'll run out of certain exotic woods before we run out of legal, pre-1972 ivory.
 
"From what I have read new ivory is worthless since it has to age for something like 30 years or so."

OK, let's explore this statement a little further. I may be a little confused with your motivation for making it.
These people risked half (if not more) of their remaining lives for something that is worthless?

The primary reason that ivory is poached is because there is a demand for it.
Demand creates the market and the level of demand sets the price.
Hardly worthless.

"Hopefully the ivory that they are confiscating is somehow making its way into the market. it would be a shame if its just being destroyed."

Is there no concern for the lives that were taken when the ivory was stolen from them? The elephant is a magnificent creature. I'm going to be very interested in the argument that man's vanity takes precedence over God's creations.

I hope the ivory that was confiscated goes into law enforcement to protect these animals.
 
My concern is getting straight answers on sending legally made cues with ivory into or out of the United States.
Can it be done, and do other countries care?

Can it be done? Yes. Does anyone do it? No. Why? Because its a huge hassle to process the paperwork necessary to legally export... You have to show proof that it is pre-BAN ivory that can be proven to be legal.


I hope the ivory that was confiscated goes into law enforcement to protect these animals.

I was under the impression that most items confiscated by law enforcement are sold at auction too, does that include items like these? Would that be considered a double standard? I honestly don't know what they do post-confiscation, but would like to know if someone can shed some light on it.
 
"From what I have read new ivory is worthless since it has to age for something like 30 years or so."

OK, let's explore this statement a little further. I may be a little confused with your motivation for making it.
These people risked half (if not more) of their remaining lives for something that is worthless?

The primary reason that ivory is poached is because there is a demand for it.
Demand creates the market and the level of demand sets the price.
Hardly worthless.

"Hopefully the ivory that they are confiscating is somehow making its way into the market. it would be a shame if its just being destroyed."

Is there no concern for the lives that were taken when the ivory was stolen from them? The elephant is a magnificent creature. I'm going to be very interested in the argument that man's vanity takes precedence over God's creations.

Didn't the gods also create cows.

I'm just saying...

Dale
 
10 metric tons? The average tusk weight on 60yr. adult elephants is 77.5lbs., which is 135lbs for males & 20lbs for females. At 77.5lbs each, 155lbs per elephant, for 10 metric tons of tusk to be harvested in a year that means a general number of 142 elephants were killed. Given the world's elephant population of 700,000+, that's a decrease of population by .02%. That's 2 tenths of a single percent of the population being affected by poaching. 0.0000% of that .02% of illegal harvested tusks are being used in American made custom pool cues. And you feel urged to boycott ivory in custom cues over this?

I think this whole ivory thing is being blown way out of proportion. We assume that 142 elephants were killed for the 10 tons of ivory. But how many of those tusks, which only equal 284, were scavenged off of naturally deceased animals? That, too, is illegal but is not nearly as ethically wrong as killing an animal. We won't know because it doesn't matter to the law & doesn't make an exciting story. So assuming all 142 elephants were killed by poachers & didn't die of natural causes, that's still way less than the elephants that do die each year from natural causes. And exactly what happens to the tusks of the naturally deceased animals?

Either way, my point is that people don't understand this whole ivory situation nearly well enough to form the opinions that they so strongly hold on to. More humans die daily in a 700,000 population city than elephants are poached in a year. I'm by no means saying that killing elephants for decorative ivory is ok. It is wrong, ethically & morally wrong. But it's not so huge an issue that people shouldn't buy cues with ivory. It's nowhere near that big an issue. Especially considering that NO illegal ivory is even used in cues, it seems a bit fanatical to me to hear poeple claim they won't buy cues with ivory. Just my opinion, based on actual facts & not media BS.

Well, if you are going to stoop to using facts.:)

Here's another one you prolly already know. Tho poaching is an
unfortunate fact af life for the Elephants in Africa<and elsewhere too>,
it's effect on populations is miniscule compared to what is really
killing them off. That is, plain and simple, loss of habitat - like most
other wildlife all over the planet.

Encroachment by overpopulating humans outweighs all other influences
to such an extent that they are insignificant by comparison.

Dale<somebody had to say it>
 
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Well, if you are going to stoop to using facts.:)

Here's another one you prolly already know. Tho poaching is an unfortunate fact af life for the Elephants in Africa<and elsewhere too>,
it's effect on populations is miniscule compared to what is really
killing them off. That is, plain and simple, loss of habitat - like most
other wildlife all over the planet.

Encroachment by overpopolating humans outweighs all other influences
to such an extent that they are as a dorp of pi$$ in the ocean.

Dale<somebody had to say it>

And isn't it tough because the preserves can't manage the herds anymore because they no longer have an income from the sell of ivory from culls and naturally deceased animals?

Elephants are very destructive to their habitat. They need a massive amount of acreage per member of the herd....or intense management. Nearly every renewable resource requires intense management, and that resource is what usually pays for it.

Those who care that much about the elephant should make donations to the preserves in Africa to help care for them and maintain habitats.

One issue that many people ignore is the right of the African natives to manage their renewable resources the way they see fit.

If responsible management of elephants was allowed, ivory and other elephant products was responsibly harvested in conjunction with that management, and the bodies charged with their management were powerful enough to deal harshly with poachers and illegal activity, it would guarantee the survival of the elephants.

Here is an intelligently written essay on the very complex matter, dated 2001 but still relevant.
www.utdallas.edu/~kruti/managing_elephants_in_africa.pdf

Here is the summary, unchanged from that essay.

"Sitting in an air-conditioned environment, it is easy for the environmentalists to say that African Elephants must be preserved for the good of the world, which in itself is not a wrong sentiment, but in practical contexts it is important to consider the various factors that go hand in hand with the actual preservation of these gentle creatures. For one, indiscriminate and cruel poaching methods can be easily avoided by making fewer but stronger rules against it. This would also affect the animal psychology and they can be more peaceful in their own environments. Co-existence of the various species of animals, including human beings in the vast wilderness of Africa is not as impossible as we have begun to deem it to be. After all it is a ‘survival of the fittest’ world, and human beings have far since realized that they can be the fittest only if the environment around them is conducive to it. If the elephants become an important economic source, there is no need for concern about their extinction because rationality dictates that they will be able to survive the indiscriminate slaughter by selective few.
On a more sociological front, we can see that once the African tribes are given the exclusive rights to preserve and manage the elephants, their dealings with respect to elephants will be more protective and personal. The intruders can be easily dealt with once they realize that elephants as a resource is theirs to maintain and if profits are shared they will simply start diminishing.
Thus in my opinion, the African tribes should be given the exclusive managing rights to the elephants in Africa and further ideological pursuits by people who do not even live in that environment should be discouraged strongly to avoid various social costs to the African economy as a whole."
 
I was once talking to a black woman about ivory.She told me of her distaste for ivory,and how she felt that if I knew more about the ivory
trade,I would share her viewpoint. I like to read and have read quite a
lot about Africa so I asked her to please educate me.Her response was that even "legal" ivory was often harvested in rather unscrupleous ways-
tribes were cheated-slaves were used-govt. officials were bribed etc.
My response was;"All that you say is true.The ivory trafficers were not my
people.I don't approve of what has gone on.I believe elephants are
amazing creatures.".
I then asked her what she thought of her country,the U.S.{mine as well}
I asked what she knew of our history? She was miffed by my response
and was mumbling about having to go,when I hit her with,"And how do
you feel about DIAMONDS?".Her reply was,"Were we not talking about
ivory? What the hell does U.S. history,or diamonds,have to do with
those poor elephants?".
 
This is the first time I have ever seen a story about someone being arrested for it, pictured is a LOT of Ivory!! It's kind of silly but I am glad they didn't mention pool cues as one of the items that are commonly used in illegal business, the guy wasn't smart to use Ebay as a fence though. He is looking at quite a bit of time, is Ivory that expensive these days?

Click me!!!

Anyone have any Ivory stories to tell?
Not all trade in ivory is illegal. Japan seems to be able to get permits: http://earthhopenetwork.net/CITES_Permits_60_Tons_Elephant_Ivory_Sold.htm

Googling will reveal another shipment about 1999.
 
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