They should fist fight to see who breaks
The coin flip or lag is old school
If you get caught on 3 fouls you get kicked in the ass and slapped in the face just for getting caught on 3
Article on "What's holding pool back"
- Thread starter Keith Jawahir
- Start date
They should fist fight to see who breaks
The coin flip or lag is old school
If you get caught on 3 fouls you get kicked in the ass and slapped in the face just for getting caught on 3
this is an awesome idea....i think it would make one pocket bad ass for anyone to watch if they understood whats going on....i love it and it is very boring in general but the shot making is nothing short of spectacular. que in when a guys got a run out going....great idea buddy!
Anyone into chess? Go look at what the St. Louis Chess Club has done with their instructional videos, lectures and match coverage. You'd think they were covering the world series. It's professional, it's entertaining, it attracts a lot of attention.
With all due respect to the people who work hard to bring us any coverage at all, what we normally get is crooked webcams, crappy audio, no commentary or very very bad commentary, etc. There was one I saw where the commentator was actually making fun of one of the players, laughing at him, etc. This was from POVPool. Give me a break.
Doesn't anyone remember how we used to do it in the 80s and 90s? Knowledgable commentators, Madden style scribbles on the screen, etc. What advertiser is going to get embroiled in all the nonsense surrounding pool, cancelled tournaments etc just so they can be shown on some amateurish production that will reach 5 people?
With all due respect to the people who work hard to bring us any coverage at all, what we normally get is crooked webcams, crappy audio, no commentary or very very bad commentary, etc. There was one I saw where the commentator was actually making fun of one of the players, laughing at him, etc. This was from POVPool. Give me a break.
Doesn't anyone remember how we used to do it in the 80s and 90s? Knowledgable commentators, Madden style scribbles on the screen, etc. What advertiser is going to get embroiled in all the nonsense surrounding pool, cancelled tournaments etc just so they can be shown on some amateurish production that will reach 5 people?
Someone mentioned "mainstream appeal" earlier in the thread. I think the APA (regardless of my opinion) has tapped into that market and has a pretty firm grip on it. They just haven't traditionally played nice with others.
I don't think so.
There is nothing even close to mainstream about pool in the US.
Ask anybody:
How is the local high school pool team doing?
They are likely to think you are asking about swimming.
Think about it. What is interesting about pool to pool players is not interesting to the general public. Most of the people spending all that money to watch things like football, basketball, baseball, etc DO NOT PLAY THOSE SPORTS.
Want to make pool more broadly appealing and "mainstream"? Stop worrying about what pool players want to see. Stop thinking like pool players. Think about the general public. Think about what they want to see and hear.
How did Mizerak break out into the mainstream? He was a showman!
Why does the general public recognize the name Minnesota Fats more than Willie Mosconi? He was a showman!
Fast Eddie Felson? Not even real! But he is part of the public lexicon! Why? They made a movie and, you guessed it...He was a showman!
Think about what people want to see and show it to them.
Don't be afraid of the reputation of pool and pool players...PLAY IT UP! Capitalize on it!
.
Somewhat true, but look at professional darts, bowling, & bass fishing, all not very easy to watch for the non-participant, but all have much higher purses for their pros.
but guys spend 10-50k on a bass boat on the regular.......id bet fishing is a monsterous industry compared to pool.....so companies like ranger boats put out.
so things like how much does simonis or mcdermott put back into the pot that feeds it? bca and such not withstanding....i have no idea really but its nothing like some of those fishing prizes ive seen when i rarely tune in on a lazy sunday.
Very insightful article. We have had this discussion over the years and I would point out that the cost of learning to play pool prohibits new talent from entering the game. No young person can afford to learn to play the game AND many cities prohibit kids under 21 from entering pool rooms. So where does potentially new talent get its start? I own a room and I have a license where I can allow any age to enter. I have special rates for kids and so far one of my kids is the current Junior National Champion and one more is on the way to achieving that title. But its tough to find new talent. I held some junior qualifiers for our region and only 5 kids showed up to play. You can't promote pool without new stars.....
I agree and it is boring because the players play so good they never have to shoot a tough shot. Nothing more boring than perfect. These players can all bank, make caroms, combinations and break balls out but you never see it. They need a game where they are forced to shoot tough shots. But as long as you have a game that rewards safe play with ball in hand that is what you are going to have a boring game. I have been playing competitive pool for 50 years and even I can;t stand to watch rotation pool.
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So with that:
Gambling to a point.
Pro players by definition can't gamble or are banned.
That is about it. The culture is not lending itself to big money interest.
Small minded, who is to say.
Seems to be doing great in Asia!
But in Asia if you cross the wrong path life is cheap.
Be it for honor or fear of reprisal it is the culture.
Sponsors do not want to be party to being cut up by the players that are competing.
Non existent in Asia? British snooker?
Here?
Don't bet on it.
You will loose that bet in the local poolroom.
Yes sir sign me up!
They only way for pool to be elevated is for it to be promoted as a game.
Game?
No one wants it as a sport. They aint buying.
And truthfully is it not just a game?
Nick Serdula
So with that:
Gambling to a point.
Pro players by definition can't gamble or are banned.
That is about it. The culture is not lending itself to big money interest.
Small minded, who is to say.
Seems to be doing great in Asia!
But in Asia if you cross the wrong path life is cheap.
Be it for honor or fear of reprisal it is the culture.
Sponsors do not want to be party to being cut up by the players that are competing.
Non existent in Asia? British snooker?
Here?
Don't bet on it.
You will loose that bet in the local poolroom.
Yes sir sign me up!
They only way for pool to be elevated is for it to be promoted as a game.
Game?
No one wants it as a sport. They aint buying.
And truthfully is it not just a game?
Nick Serdula
I don't think it's a case where pool missed out on television....it's a case where the television audience didn't choose pool.
Some sports just didn't translate well to the general television audience. Pool's had many chances on television, but obviously it couldn't sustain or grow a good sized audience or else it would still have major network coverage.
Somewhere there's a bowling forum asking the question...."What's holding bowling back?"
Personally I think the only thing that would have catapulted the game forward would be to have made it a gambling sport and got the full support of Vegas and Atlantic City.....but Buddy Hall ruined that.
Boring?
I don't think the game itself being boring is nearly as detrimental to it's success as the fact that the players are unknown.
Without hometown teams for people to invest their time or interest into, the personality of the players, the rivalry's and the history should be exposed. The Mosconi cup taps into a little of this because of the country vs. country and they generate 'rivalries' based on previous outcomes.
Tell a story, get more people to hate on Earl, create some good guys, bad guys and underdogs. Give people a reason to be emotionally invested and they will watch just about anything. Find a way to organize a tour or 'season' so the storylines are tied together to a progression that people can get behind.
I think if marketed correctly, the diversity of players and the historical 'shadiness' of the game and it's players could be the exact thing that needs to be exposed and managed rather than swept under the carpet.
b
I don't think the game itself being boring is nearly as detrimental to it's success as the fact that the players are unknown.
Without hometown teams for people to invest their time or interest into, the personality of the players, the rivalry's and the history should be exposed. The Mosconi cup taps into a little of this because of the country vs. country and they generate 'rivalries' based on previous outcomes.
Tell a story, get more people to hate on Earl, create some good guys, bad guys and underdogs. Give people a reason to be emotionally invested and they will watch just about anything. Find a way to organize a tour or 'season' so the storylines are tied together to a progression that people can get behind.
I think if marketed correctly, the diversity of players and the historical 'shadiness' of the game and it's players could be the exact thing that needs to be exposed and managed rather than swept under the carpet.
b
When all the local pool rooms finally close their doors because they can't make a living off of table time, then pool will be dead. It's happening where I live and probably where you live, too. The only thing that has kept them going as long as they have is liquor sales.
Liquor sales, however, does not bring in pool players. Liquor sales does not bring in the youngsters who, like those before them, spend endless hours learning the craft. The only thing liquor sales brings is liquor drinkers, and drinkers can always find ways to amuse themselves besides playing pool. That is one of the reasons why my pool room is now called Billiard's Sports Bar and Grill. It's only a matter of time before the pool tables are replaced by booths and a dance floor.
We are in the end times of pool, make no mistake about it. :sorry:
Liquor sales, however, does not bring in pool players. Liquor sales does not bring in the youngsters who, like those before them, spend endless hours learning the craft. The only thing liquor sales brings is liquor drinkers, and drinkers can always find ways to amuse themselves besides playing pool. That is one of the reasons why my pool room is now called Billiard's Sports Bar and Grill. It's only a matter of time before the pool tables are replaced by booths and a dance floor.
We are in the end times of pool, make no mistake about it. :sorry:
:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
Man, I think you got me mixed up with somebody else.
So with that:
Gambling to a point.
Pro players by definition can't gamble or are banned.
That is about it. The culture is not lending itself to big money interest.
Small minded, who is to say.
Seems to be doing great in Asia!
But in Asia if you cross the wrong path life is cheap.
Be it for honor or fear of reprisal it is the culture.
Sponsors do not want to be party to being cut up by the players that are competing.
Non existent in Asia? British snooker?
Here?
Don't bet on it.
You will loose that bet in the local poolroom.
Yes sir sign me up!
They only way for pool to be elevated is for it to be promoted as a game.
Game?
No one wants it as a sport. They aint buying.
And truthfully is it not just a game?
Nick Serdula
The problem with pool isn't the gambling it is the dishonest gambling that we call hustling that has been glorified and associated with pool every time pool comes to the notice of the general public (the Hustler, seminal Mosconi-Fats match on ABC, The Color of Money). The general public doesn't know much more about pool than these things which present the absolute worst side of pool from the perspective of decent people who could support a sport. And that has corrupted a big part of the pool culture.
I know there are a lot of sharps on here who revel in this aspect of pool. And they may even be some of the best players. But THAT is what makes it impossible for pool to even become a real sport.
Or maybe I am wrong and all pool needs is more admiring stories about hustlers cleverly robbing flats to get pool to take off.
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And televised poker is better than pool would be? Yuck.
Johnnyt said:
I agree with Johnny. A lot of people don't have the attention span for pool. A lot of it appears to be pretty automatic based on the Pro talent level and then it becomes an endurance race all the way to 9 racks. There's not really a lot of action for the untrained eye.
They attempted gambling on pool back in the 90s for a show called Ball Breakers... each player (out of maybe 8) was given something like $10k and they battled each other until someone took it all.
Poker is pretty interesting to watch as a matter of fact because it's suspenseful... You know something the players don't. Just like when you're watching a thriller at the movies and you're like "DON'T GO THROUGH THAT DOOR! THE MURDERER IS BACK THERE!" It's exciting and thrilling to watch someone bet on a hand when they're probably going to lose, but it's even MORE exciting when that last card flips and the entire hand changes.
People (general pop, I mean) like to watch exciting pool; bank shots, kick shots, massés. That's part of the reason Trick Shot Magic stayed on ESPN so much longer than regular pool.
If there was a level of suspense, a little more action, and a little personality... people might care. Two people playing against each other shoot like robots in a library. The only person with a little bit of personality right now is Earl, and that's largely why people go to watch him. But many people in this community chastise him for that... which is silly.
If you want to make pool interesting, you have to take it out of the library and remove the robot players.
PS. And some more entertaining announcers might help ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIxx6iuYR6A from the comedy movie Dodgeball ). If you mixed up an intelligent pool-oriented announcer with more of a personality (almost like a comedian or Joe Rogan or something), then you'd have a good mix of banter, random facts, and intelligent pool talk that everyone could subscribe too.
I'm tired of hearing announcer incorrectly "Oh he might shoot this one ball here, whoops, nope he didn't."
You don't hear Joe Buck constantly predicting if Eli Manning is going to run an option or not.
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I don't think so.
There is nothing even close to mainstream about pool in the US.
Ask anybody:
How is the local high school pool team doing?
They are likely to think you are asking about swimming.
Think about it. What is interesting about pool to pool players is not interesting to the general public. Most of the people spending all that money to watch things like football, basketball, baseball, etc DO NOT PLAY THOSE SPORTS.
Want to make pool more broadly appealing and "mainstream"? Stop worrying about what pool players want to see. Stop thinking like pool players. Think about the general public. Think about what they want to see and hear.
How did Mizerak break out into the mainstream? He was a showman!
Why does the general public recognize the name Minnesota Fats more than Willie Mosconi? He was a showman!
Fast Eddie Felson? Not even real! But he is part of the public lexicon! Why? They made a movie and, you guessed it...He was a showman!
Think about what people want to see and show it to them.
Don't be afraid of the reputation of pool and pool players...PLAY IT UP! Capitalize on it!
.
Curling is probably more mainstream than pool. And people only see that every 4 years on the Olympics.