Attn: Mr. Wilson and all American players

[Terry Ardeno]

Great post Terry but one little typo can bring all of the "big a-holes" out of the woodwork.:smile:

Super Bowl<-- championship football
Super Bowel<-- extraordinary colon

Ooops!
I never claimed to be a football fan. When I looked at it, it didn't look right. I hit spell check to make sure I spelled it right and it didn't come up red....

For being a dummmy, I'll just leave it as is. Nice catch, I guess!

It's nice to laugh. Thanks buddy!

 

[BigDogatLarge]

Wpa

I just sent this note to the two board members. I want to thank Memikey and Ste for telling me the answers to my questions in the previous post.

Dear Madam and Sir,

I am writing to tell you about the reaction to the recent WPA decision concerning world championship status. The people in this forum have expressed ideas and I wanted you both to know what is on the minds of the actual player, room owners, and champions of the various cuesports. Please read the entire forum and feel free to join in the discussion with us on this subject. Please wear your thick skin, as there may be a certain level of passion shown for our sport. Here is the link,

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=109328

Respectfully,

Dwight Sisson
850-510-3103

 

[SpiderWebComm]

You mean to say it aint like this already?
Then the title is BS if even one good player is denied the chance to compete.
Perhaps the WPA used the WWF as its model as how to run its biz.

I believe Hopkins recently tried to get into the world championships (10-ball maybe?? he didn't specify) and was denied.

He said, "C'mon now. I'll even put up an entry fee to play - I just wanna play."

(DENIED)

He then mentions to me, "Dave, I only have at least 5 world championships and finished 5th in the last two world 14.1s....c'mon now....WHO ARE THEY INVITING??????????????"

WPA..... if you guys are reading this thread..... MAYBE, just MAYBE you should add precursor champions to your short little list. On the blind, I'd put Hoppy in against a HIGH % your entire list in an all-around and he can't get an invite?????? Save yourselves from this embarrassment and fix the problem--- make your world titles open events or invite past world champions.

It's a joke.

GO GRADY....

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Spider:

I am not defending WPA here, but will try to explain how the system works in Europe.

For each World Championship each continent gets spots, and it is up to the regional federation to pick the players. For example the European spots are given by the ranking of the Eurotour. (Last year Europe had about 40 spots) (For those of you wondering why so many spots for Europe, Europe is a continent consisting of more than 50 countries. During the European Championships played this week more than 700 players from 40 countries compete)

That means that for example Norway do not have any players in the World Ten Ball Championship, World 8-ball Championship and World 9-ball Championship, simply because we don't have players that participate in every tournament at the Eurotour (7 during a year, spread all over Europe), and because of that they fail to finish high enough on the ranking.

Because of this system used in Europe, a top player such as Darren Appleton didn't have a spot in the past 2 World 9-ball Championship, or the last 2 World 8-ball Championships, and was forced to play the qualifiers the week before these tournaments. And those qualifiers are HARD. Last year, WC 9-ball 2007, 160 players from 23 countries participated in Manila for the last 10 spots. (so does this mean that the World Championship had 128 players + 160 from the qualifiers, which is about 275 players?)

Was Darren good enough to participate? Of course! He's even good enough to win the tournaments. But the rules in Europe are made in stone - if you don't participate on the Eurotour, which is open for any player from all over the world (www.eurotour.nu) (or finish top 8 in European 9-ball Championship), you won't get a spot.

I think the system for Europe is fair, and what is even better with it, it makes a strong tour! The Eurotour has almost 256 players on every tournament. (Darren has been forced to compete on the eurotour, and his reward has now been some great results and $$ + now he is high enough on the ranking, so he's in for the next Championships)

Now it is up to the players, tours, organizations in USA and North America to get together and decide how they will use their spots, and make it known to all players minimum a year in advance.

Tournaments like the World Championship can't be open to all players. It has to have a limit, just like the US Open, who has a limit of 256 players. They need to know in advance that they can finish the tournament the day they have said the final will be played.

Perhaps 128 spots on the WC are too few, but then one of WPA's "sub-federation", for example BCA, can ask them to make it 256 instead...

EDIT: with the system used by Europe, it's no doubt that Europe send the players that have been performing well the last year, and deserve a spot. If a former European Champion doesn't play good enough anymore, or doesn't compete as much as he used to, he's out. You need to perform well to grab a spot from Europe!

If every continent had for example 7 open tournaments with 256 players on every tournament, and when the season ended they sent the top 32 players on the ranking, no one could complain about the "invites", because if you want to play the World Championship you have to play on the tour!

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Spider:

I am not defending WPA here, but till try to explain how their system works in Europe.

For each World Championship each continent gets spots, and it is up to the regional federation to pick the players. For example the European spots are given by the ranking of the Eurotour.

That means that for example Norway do not have any players in the World Ten Ball Championship, World 8-ball Championship and World 9-ball Championship, because we don't have players that participate in every tournament at the Eurotour (7 during a year), and because of that they fail to finish high enough on the ranking.

Because of this system used in Europe, players as Darren Appleton didn't have a spot in the past 2 World 9-ball Championship, or the last 2 World 8-ball Championships, and was forced to play the qualifiers.

Was Darren good enough to participate? Of course! He's even good enough to win the tournaments. But the rules in Europe is made in stone - if you don't participate on the eurotour (or finish high in European Championship), you won't get a spot.

I think the system for Europe is fair, and what is even better with it, it makes a strong tour! The Eurotour has almost 256 players on every tournament. (Darren has been forced to compete on the eurotour, and his reward has now been some great results and $$ + now he is high enough on the ranking, so he's in for the next Championships)

Now it is up to the players, tours, organizations in USA and North America to get together and decide how they will use their spots, and make it known to all players a year in advance.

Tournaments like the World Championship can't be open to all players. It has to have a limit, just like the US Open, who has a limit of 256 players. They need to know in advance that they can finish the tournament the day they have said the final will be played.

Perhaps 128 spots on the WC are too few, but then one of WPA's "sub-federation", for example BCA, can ask them to make it 256 instead...

EDIT: with the system used by Europe, it's no doubt that Europe send the players that have been performing well the last year, and deserve a spot. If a former European Champion doesn't play good enough anymore, or doesn't compete as much as he used to, he's out. You need to perform well to grab a spot from Europe!

If every continent had for example 7 open tournaments with 256 players on every tournament, and when the season ended they sent the top 32 players on the ranking, no one could complain about the "invites", because if you want to play the World Championship you have to play on the tour!

Educating. But still not as good as having an open event. Come one, come all, pay $2500 or whatever to play if you're not on the list and play.

If someone isn't up to par, big deal--- they're donating to the winners.

I like what you say, makes sense. But for the life of me, I think OPEN events are most telling.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Educating. But still not as good as having an open event. Come one, come all, pay $2500 or whatever to play if you're not on the list and play.

If someone isn't up to par, big deal--- they're donating to the winners.

I like what you say, makes sense. But for the life of me, I think OPEN events are most telling.

A big part of me agree with you, but a small part disagree.

The small part says:

160 players played the qualifiers the week before the World Championship, to qualify for the MAIN FIELD, of 128 players.

That means that during those 2 weeks 128 + 150 players participated in the tournament, but only 128 made it to the main event.

If you think like this, then all the 900 players that competed in the Eurotour during last season was also part of the qualifiers, so in fact more than 1100 players have had their fair chance of qualify for the MAIN FIELD of the World Championship.

I look at the World Championship as the most prestigous tournament where the BEST players from the PAST year will compete, and to make sure it is the best players who compete, they make it real hard to qualify to the MAIN FIELD. To qualify you have to play good all year, not only the week that the Championship is organized...


The big part of me wants the World Championship to be open, but that is mostly because then even I can play in it, and can perhaps play Earl Strickland or Shane Van Boening etc...

But I think the most prestigous way to do it is if each continent had strong tours, and the top players were sent to this FINAL tournament every year, to determine who's the worlds best player for that year, not only that week...

 

[SpiderWebComm]

A big part of me agree with you, but a small part disagree.

The small part says:

160 players played the qualifiers the week before the World Championship, to qualify for the MAIN FIELD, of 128 players.

That means that during those 2 weeks 128 + 150 players participated in the tournament, but only 128 made it to the main event.

If you think like this, then all the 900 players that competed in the Eurotour during last season was also part of the qualifiers, so in fact more than 1100 players have had their fair chance of qualify for the MAIN FIELD of the World Championship.

I look at the World Championship as the most prestigous tournament where the BEST players from the PAST year will compete, and to make sure it is the best players who compete, they make it real hard to qualify to the MAIN FIELD. To qualify you have to play good all year, not only the week that the Championship is organized...


The big part of me wants the World Championship to be open, but that is mostly because then even I can play in it, and can perhaps play Earl Strickland or Shane Van Boening etc...

But I think the most prestigous way to do it is if each continent had strong tours, and the top players were sent to this FINAL tournament every year, to determine who's the worlds best player for that year, not only that week...

My only comeback is: many of the strong-playing ex-champs don't have the time to run around and play in qualifiers. They'd rather pony up a few grand to "just play." I think if you've won a past world-championship, you should have the option to just pay and play.

No matter what anyone says, the U.S. is "tour-lacking" for sure. While we're messed up internally, let our nit-dogging players pony up some euros and play a little bit

Thanks for the posts- good info.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

My only comeback is: many of the strong-playing ex-champs don't have the time to run around and play in qualifiers. They'd rather pony up a few grand to "just play." I think if you've won a past world-championship, you should have the option to just pay and play.

No matter what anyone says, the U.S. is "tour-lacking" for sure. While we're messed up internally, let our nit-dogging players pony up some euros and play a little bit

Thanks for the posts- good info.

The 5 past World Champions are invited.

It means that for example Mika Immonen (2001) now has to play on the eurotour to get a spot from Europe.

 

[Koop]

But I think the most prestigous way to do it is if each continent had strong tours, and the top players were sent to this FINAL tournament every year, to determine who's the worlds best player for that year, not only that week...

I apologize if this has already been said, and while I tend to agree with you going forward, why can't they just recognize the past accomplishments of former champs and then move forward with something like this?

Koop - just tossing in my $.02

 

[crawfish]

Ok, ok. Here's what I am gonna do. I am having a WORLD BEATER tourney tonight. I am only gonna invite who I want. After I win it, I am a world champion. It starts at 7:00.

 

[Ktown D]

Ok, ok. Here's what I am gonna do. I am having a WORLD BEATER tourney tonight. I am only gonna invite who I want. After I win it, I am a world champion. It starts at 7:00.

What is the entry and can we play a satellite first to get in on the cheap?

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I apologize if this has already been said, and while I tend to agree with you going forward, why can't they just recognize the past accomplishments of former champs and then move forward with something like this?

Koop - just tossing in my $.02

I totally agree with you that the WPA should honour the past Champions, with including them on their list! It's a disgrace that they haven't done so.

My point with these posts are that I don't want anyone to start another big 9-ball tournament and call it for the World 9-ball Championship, because we already have a perfect system for the 9-ball. (Atleast the way it works in Europe).

Unfortunately the Eurotour-ranking (9-ball tournaments only) are also used to determine the players for the World 8-ball Championship and the World Ten Ball Championship. For the World 14-1 Championship I think that EPBF have made a deal with WPA and organizer Dragon P that the top 8 in the European Championship are guaranteed a spot, if they want to go.

I would love to see for example six 8-ball tournaments in each continent (or around the world) every year, deciding by the ranking who will compete in the World 8-ball Championship, and the same for 10-ball and 14-1.

 

[Koop]

I totally agree with you that the WPA should honour the past Champions, with including them on their list! It's a disgrace that they haven't done so.

My point with these posts are that I don't want anyone to start another big 9-ball tournament and call it for the World 9-ball Championship, because we already have a perfect system for the 9-ball. (Atleast the way it works in Europe).

Unfortunately the Eurotour-ranking (9-ball tournaments only) are also used to determine the players for the World 8-ball Championship and the World Ten Ball Championship. For the World 14-1 Championship I think that EPBF have made a deal with WPA and organizer Dragon P that the top 8 in the European Championship are guaranteed a spot, if they want to go.

I would love to see for example six 8-ball tournaments in each continent (or around the world) every year, deciding by the ranking who will compete in the World 8-ball Championship, and the same for 10-ball and 14-1.

Gotcha, thanks Roy.

 

[crawfish]

What is the entry and can we play a satellite first to get in on the cheap?

Entry is $30,000. Payouts are as follows:

1st place $2000
2nd place $1000

As many of you that want to sign up, go right ahead. If you win, you can call yourself the world champ. I changed my mind on the invitational only. My feeling is that "invite only" wouldn't be fair. Start sending me the cash. I will take paypal, also.

 

[Wedge]

Jay, we have a US Open in 9 Ball that was and still is one of the most coveted events in 9 Ball. If we could muster a 14.1 US Open perhaps we would be more solitified as a Striaht Pool power in the world. Until then we can do that we will be playing second fiddle to the Germans and others. Remember the great US Opens in the 70's that Mizerak dominated. I dearly love straight pool but if not for the East Coast, particularly New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Maryland (Sorry if I left out a State(s) 14.1 would be dead in the US.

Your thoughts Jay?

 

[azhousepro]

Or he has to be the top foreign player on the BCA's points list.

Mike

The 5 past World Champions are invited.

It means that for example Mika Immonen (2001) now has to play on the eurotour to get a spot from Europe.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Or he has to be the top foreign player on the BCA's points list.

Mike

That's true, that is how Mika has got his spot the last 2 years.

The World Champions that are invited for the 2008 Chamionship:

Daryl Peach 2007
Ronato Alcano 2006
Chia-Ching Wu 2005
Alex Pagulayan 2004
Thorsten Hohmann 2003

Extra information: The players that finish top 16 in World Championship will automatically get an invite for the coming year. Also the player that win the US Open, and the finalists for each of the 7 Eurotours.

This means that for example Niels Feijen, who finished 9th last year is automatically invited to the WC. If he is on top 32 on the ranking of the eurotour (which he is), his ranking-spot will go to nr 33.

Because of this system, it is normally good enough to be ranked in the top 40 on the eurotour to get a spot in the World 9-ball Championship. The season starts in May every year, and it ends in April. So the top 40 in April is normally invited to the World Championship.

It's not as easy as it might sound, to end up top 40... Believe me, there are lots of players fighting for those spots...

 

[azhousepro]

On the other hand, these rules are for the World 9-Ball. There have been no previous events to use in order to determine players for the World 10-Ball.

Mike

 

[Roy Steffensen]

On the other hand, these rules are for the World 9-Ball. There have been no previous events to use in order to determine players for the World 10-Ball.

Mike

That's true.

I mean they should atleast used the last 2 Dragon Promotions 10-ball tournaments to pick for example top 16 from each year... Then give some spots to BCA, EPBF etc.

 

[Cornerman]

I apologize if this has already been said, and while I tend to agree with you going forward, why can't they just recognize the past accomplishments of former champs and then move forward with something like this?

My feeling is that they're trying to do this. They just aren't being very diplomatic. They come off as a-holes.

They absolutely have to recognize past champions. My goodness, what kind of world would this be if the "world governing body of pool" and IOC representativeof our sport didn't recognize Willie Mosconi as a World Champion???

They could have just said that they don't recognize the players mentioned on the main page as WPA World Champions and left it at that This haughty wording ("indeed... they are not") only fueled anti-WPA sentiments.

Fred