AZ Buildoff Cues

[Poolplaya9]

(Continued from the post above...)

Cue #4

John Morra and fellow Candian Jarrod Spence joint review
1. Balance was very well distributed
2. Looks of cue were best of all six cues
3. Quality of work was very good
4. Taper of shaft was a little too thick, butt was perfect
5. Feel of hit was medium but very good

Melissa Little
Ok

Unknown player at Olathe tournament
This was the fourth best hitting cue of the 5 reviewed (did not review cue #6)
I did not like this cue

Rob Moore from Willard, Mo.
Solid but no draw and has high deflection

ftgokie
Nice clean finish, good solid hit
Felt good in my hand, nicely balanced. Irish linen was kinda rough in my hand though, could have been smoother
Shaft was nice and smooth
I give this cue a 7

BENFICA
Never did submit his review for this cue

Safety
Never did submit his review for this cue

JoeyInCali
Never did submit his review for this cue

Graciocues
Never did submit his review for this cue

Klink
Never did submit his review for this cue

SK Custom Cues
4 stars (on a 4 star scale?)
This cue was built in a superb manner.

ugotactionTX
Overall comfort of feel rates a 10
Balance rates a 10
Weight of cue rates a 10
Feedback rates a 7
Stiffness rates a 10 (with 10 being highest maximum stiffness)
Feel of hit rates a 7
Sound quality rates a 7
Playability rates a 10

Cueballdg
Craftsmanship - 7
Feel and Playability - 6
Overall rating - 5 of 6
Comments - Again the craftsmanship was also very good but did not like feel (butt size and shaft taper).

TWOFORPOOL
Craftsmanship: 8
Feel & Playability: 8
Overall: 8
RANKING: 4TH Place
You can feel changes in materials (plastic to wood). Hit was just ok.
I would not buy this cue as it is just a regular cue that needs improvement.

asiasdad
This cue looks like a high school kid made it in wood shop for extra credit.
It may as well have been a McDermott pre-production test case.

HollyWood
2nd tightest grain, I like the dark color. The collars and joints (over sized) needed a little more sanding to fit perfectly. I don't like the squeaking aluminum pin. Has the most popular linen wrap.

John Biddle, Randy Mobley, Dan Whitten, James Roberts, and various other friend's scores (total of 15 people) all averaged together, followed by their various comments
Fit and finish rates a 7.00
Wrap rates a 7.00
Rolls Straight rates a 6.53
Joint rates a 6.79
Balance rates a 7.31
Feel rates a 7.50
Feedback rates a 7.36
Gets Results rates a 7.57
Stiffness rates a 6.50 (10 is maximum stiffness)
Sound of Hit rates a 3.73 (10 is maximum loudness)
Overall Rating is a 6.93
This cue scored the second best out of the 6 cues in the "wrap" category.

Action, wrap, comfort and balance excellent. Warped. Wrap bad; has gaps & ends too high. Joint didn’t match. Finish is good, parts don’t fit.
Shaft was slightly bent. Cue feels skinney. Throws cue ball on long shots.
Doesn’t stand out, but is a good piece of equipment. Average in all visual regards. Good quality cue, nice shaft.
Wrap very coarse.
Great feel and hit.
Joint loose up to very end, with noticeable unevenness.
Unpressed linen looks great, a tad coarse to the touch. Has a slight bump at the seam with the wood.
Noticeable wobble. Z shape taper, with slope change well back by joint.
Cue weighs 18.625 oz, shaft = 3.75 or 20.13%, butt = 14.875




Cue #5

John Morra
1. Balance of cue was fair but heavy at the joint
2. Dont like the looks of the cue
3. Quality of the work was just under fair
4. Feel was medium and smooth hit good
5. Taper of the shaft was too thick in the middle and too thick in the butt

Jarrod Spence
1. Taper was thick and so was butt
2. Tip felt hard
3. Quality of work wasnt good
4. Didnt like the looks of the cue
5. Cue felt very heavy

Melissa Little
Butt was too fat, and not a good taper

Unknown player at Olathe tournament
This was the fifth best hitting cue of the 5 reviewed cues (did not review cue #6)
I did not like this cue

Rob Moore from Willard, Mo.
Plays good, compares to cue #3 but with a harder hit

ftgokie
Great finish, builder took pride in making this cue
Cue has a good hard hit to it
Really good looking cue, super nice shaft......smooth as silk
Handle area was a little big around for my liking, but overall the cue was really good
I give this an 8

BENFICA
Never did submit his review for this cue

Safety
Never did submit his review for this cue

JoeyInCali
Never did submit his review for this cue

Graciocues
Never did submit his review for this cue

Klink
Never did submit his review for this cue

SK Custom Cues
2 stars (on a 4 star scale?)
This cue was built in a superb manner.

ugotactionTX
Overall comfort of feel rates a 10
Balance rates a 10
Weight of cue rates a 10
Feedback rates a 9
Stiffness rates a 10 (with 10 being highest maximum stiffness)
Feel of hit rates a 9
Sound quality rates a 9
Playability rates a 10

Cueballdg
Craftsmanship - 10
Feel and Playability - 9
Overall rating - Top 1 of 6
Comments - I really like the balance of the cue as well as shaft taper and butt size. My favorite cue of the 6.

TWOFORPOOL
Craftsmanship: 10
Feel & Playability: 9
Overall: 9.50
RANKING: 2ND Place
Excellent finish and craftsmanship. Very well balanced and great hit. I really liked this cue and it was a tough decision between this cue and cue 6. I liked the shaft taper on this cue better than 6.
I would buy this cue.

asiasdad
This cue looks like a high school kid made it in wood shop for extra credit.
As far as playability, this cue is a well tuned instrument. extremely well balanced, and had excellent feedback. It played as well as a TAD, better than a SW, and nearly as well as a Lambros. It would make a great chunk of wood to pull out of a case as it does not draw attention to itself in the fact that it looks like just another cheap import cue. That is part of its' appeal to me. I would buy raffle tickets for it.

HollyWood
Stunning Birdseye and purple heart- best player. I must say again all the shafts are $100. Soft hit but made ALL the balls.
This cue was tied with cues 2 and 7 as the most liked by my friends.

John Biddle, Randy Mobley, Dan Whitten, James Roberts, and various other friend's scores (total of 15 people) all averaged together, followed by their various comments
Fit and finish rates a 8.27
Wrap rates a ----
Rolls Straight rates a 9.13
Joint rates a 8.50
Balance rates a 8.31
Feel rates a 8.21
Feedback rates a 7.93
Gets Results rates a 8.00
Stiffness rates a 8.00 (10 is maximum stiffness)
Sound of Hit rates a 2.93 (10 is maximum loudness)
Overall Rating is a 8.36
This cue scored the best out of the 6 cues in the "fit and finish," "rolls straight," "joint," "balance," "feel," "feedback," "gets results (tied with cue #7)," and "overall rating" categories, making it a clean sweep.

Good middle of the road cue
Not a fan of no wrap. Excellent cue.
Front weighted, middle thick. Do not like taper. Reasonable performance, stiff.
Sold.
Love it.
Good feel, butt is clean (not wrapped) solid hitter!
Hope to bid on it.
Great joint makeup.
Joint moderately loose up to the end, but seam was extremely smooth.
This cue was perfectly straight, the only one, though #2 was very close. I was very surprised that so many cues were so noticeably unstraight.
Shaft has a z taper which I like, but the slope change point is a little too far forward which can get in the way during long follow-through.
This cue was a close 2nd choice, I would buy it.
Cue weighs 19.25 oz, shaft = 4.125 or 21.43%, butt = 15.125




Cue #6

John Morra and fellow Candian Jarrod Spence joint review
1. Balance too heavy
2. Shaft and butt too thick
3. Feel of hit medium smooth and too much deflection
4. Dont like looks
5. Quality of work descent

Melissa Little
Butt was too fat, and not a good taper

Unknown player at Olathe tournament
Did not review Cue #6

Rob Moore from Willard, Mo.
Ok, but has a soft hit and no draw

ftgokie
Best overall finish, best looking cue, craftsmanship was the best out of the whole bunch
Had an excellent hit
Butt was a touch too fat for me, shaft was way too big around for me (13.2mm)
Great playing cue though
I rate this a 9

BENFICA
Never did submit his review for this cue

Safety
Never did submit his review for this cue

JoeyInCali
Never did submit his review for this cue

Graciocues
Never did submit his review for this cue

Klink
Never did submit his review for this cue

SK Custom Cues
4 stars (on a 4 star scale?)
This cue was built in a superb manner.
This cue was tied with cue #1 for the most solid hit.

ugotactionTX
Overall comfort of feel rates a 10
Balance rates a 10
Weight of cue rates a 10
Feedback rates a 8
Stiffness rates a 10 (with 10 being highest maximum stiffness)
Feel of hit rates a 8
Sound quality rates a 9
Playability rates a 10

Cueballdg
Craftsmanship - 10
Feel and Playability - 9
Overall rating - Top 3 of 6
Comments - I liked the hit of this cue but the butt size was to large for me.
The shaft taper between cue 5 and cue 6 were fantastic.

TWOFORPOOL
Craftsmanship: 10
Feel & Playability: 9.5
Overall: 9.75
RANKING: 1ST Place
Excellent finish and craftsmanship. Very well balanced and great hit. I really liked this cue also. Although the shaft taper was stiffer it seemed to be a little more efficient and a hair more solid than cue 5. Again it was a tough decision between this cue and cue 5 as to which cue was best.
I would buy this cue.

asiasdad
This cue looks like a high school kid made it in wood shop for extra credit.
This cue has too much junk in the trunk.

HollyWood
Unique pin, butt cap work. Stunning Birdseye and purple heart. This shaft was different taper than the others, it was thicker shaft too. SWEET

John Biddle, Randy Mobley, Dan Whitten, James Roberts, and various other friend's scores (total of 15 people) all averaged together, followed by their various comments
Fit and finish rates a 8.20
Wrap rates a ----
Rolls Straight rates a 8.40
Joint rates a 8.36
Balance rates a 7.15
Feel rates a 7.67
Feedback rates a 7.73
Gets Results rates a 7.43
Stiffness rates a 7.79 (10 is maximum stiffness)
Sound of Hit rates a 3.60 (10 is maximum loudness)
Overall Rating is a 7.57
This cue scored the second best out of the 6 cues in the "fit and finish," "joint," and "feedback" categories.

Balance off. Powering the cue comes up short.
Not a fan of no wrap, but this was my favorite cue because of a very solid hit.
Feels great, one of the top 3. High deflection. Thick taper ruined it. Overall nice cue.
Seemed too heavy in back.
Taper is too thick.
Great stick! Loved it!
Hard tip will make a great break cue.
Good feel, very solid and basic. Hits good!
Great taper and cue.
Flat tip. Good joint makeup, even taper.
Joint tight all the way, seam was very smooth.
This cue is slightly off being straight.
Shaft has a long slow taper.
I would buy this cue if the price was not exorbitant.
Cue weighs 19 oz, shaft = 4.25 or 22.37%, butt = 14.75

 

[Poolplaya9]

(Continued from the post above...)

Cue #7
(Cue #7 is an "extra" cue that is also being passed around with the other six, but it is not a part of the six cuemaker buildoff, and did not adhere to the same build criteria, so it cannot be directly or fairly compared with the other six.)

Vasilios Cocobolo 2 point Sneaky Pete, no picture available, and not all players are reviewing this cue.

ftgokie
This cue is awesome... The wood is some of the best you will see
Cue plays great, almost a flawless cue
Nice clean hard hit, feels good in my hand
The butt is a touch too big around for me though
I would highly recommend this cue to anyone....Super Nice cue!

BENFICA
I did not care for this cue. The blank was like beyond "el cheapo", and I did not like this one at all.

Safety
Never did submit his review for this cue

JoeyInCali
This cue and cue #1 were the best hitting cues.

Graciocues
Never did submit his review for this cue

Klink
Never did submit his review for this cue

ugotactionTX
Overall comfort of feel rates a 8
Balance rates a 7
Weight of cue rates a 10
Feedback rates a 8
Stiffness rates a 10 (with 10 being highest maximum stiffness)
Feel of hit rates a 8
Sound quality rates a 7
Playability rates a 9

HollyWood
This cue had the most wood to wood contact. Very solid player. Finish is a little thin. Again I say great shaft wood. NICE POINTS AND PIN.
This cue was tied with cues 2 and 5 as the most liked by my friends.

John Biddle, Randy Mobley, Dan Whitten, James Roberts, and various other friend's scores (total of 15 people) all averaged together, followed by their various comments
Fit and finish rates a 6.07
Wrap rates a ----
Rolls Straight rates a 5.36
Joint rates a 5.83
Balance rates a 6.67
Feel rates a 7.92
Feedback rates a 7.46
Gets Results rates a 8.00
Stiffness rates a 8.08 (10 is maximum stiffness)
Sound of Hit rates a 4.86 (10 is maximum loudness)
Overall Rating is a 7.00
This cue scored the best out of the 6 cues (tied with cue #5) in the "gets results" category.
This cue scored the worst out of the 6 cues in the "fit and finish" and "rolls straight" categories.

Warped. Great feel & feedback. A touch too light in front. Fix it and I’d buy it.
Cue hit excellent. Shaft felt a little skinnier than what I’m used to. Couldn’t get used to that, but really like the feel of the cue.
Surprisingly best taper, great feel.Quality of wood low, shaft great. Looks crap, plays well. Great tool, very “sneaky”.
Good solid cue.
Great hit sneaky pete.
Bad warp, otherwise a solid player.
Joint extremely loose up to the end, with a noticeable seam. I really didn't like the gritty feel of the pin as it screwed in.
There was very minor chipping of finish at joint and the points were poor.
Cue has a bad wobble. Shaft has a z taper with the slope change point well back toward the joint.
The cosmetic technical deficiencies don't seem to affect the good play of this cue.
Cue weighs 19.875 oz, shaft = 3.375 or 16.98%, butt = 16.5

 

[John Biddle]

Additional Commentary

One of the first things I noticed about these cues was that they were not all as similar looking as they were supposed to be. Several makers did not follow some of the requirements. It seems to me that if one is going to rate custom cuemakers, one of the criteria should be his ability to follow directions. If you order one thing and get another, are you going to be happy?

Now, I know that all these generous cuemakers donated cues to this project, and it may seem unreasonable to hold them to strict standards, but I think this is actually a minimum standard. They stand to gain significantly if their cue out ranks the others, so for them this was at least as much business as philanthropy.

Only 2 of the 6 cues met all of the original requirements. One criterion, no ringwork, may have been interpreted as no fancy ringwork. If we are lenient and give the makers the benefit of the doubt on this, then 4 met all requirements.

Requirement.......................................#1....#2....#3....#4....#5....#6
BEM Forearm and Butt.......................... Y ..... Y ..... N .... N ..... Y .... Y
Handle = Maple/Purple Heart/Wrap......... Y ..... Y ..... N .... Y ..... Y .... Y
Black Phenolic Joints and Butt Caps..........Y ..... Y ......Y......Y...... Y .... Y
Weight = 19 oz +/- 0.2 oz.....................Y ..... Y ...... Y .... N ..... Y .... Y
No Rings, Inlays, Points, Marks or Sigs.....Y .... N ...... N .... N ..... Y .... N

As nice as some nonconforming cues were, I wouldn't give them passing grades.

Another point is about straightness. I was amazed at the poor quality of most of these cues in this regard. Only 2 & 5 were perfect, and to me, straightness is another minimum requirement. It surprised me even more that so few people noticed that the nonstraight cues were not straight.

Rolling the cue flat on the table is a poor method of detecting a straightness problem. If you get your eyes right down on the cloth and watch the gap between the shaft and the cloth as you roll the stick you can learn useful info, but looking down on the cue while standing over it will tell you nothing that isn't immediately obvious by just looking at the cue.

Much better is to put the butt end of the cue in the center of the table and lay the front end of the forearm on the rail. The joint must be beyond the cloth of the rail. Now when you roll the cue and watch the ferule for wobbles you can detect smaller problems with no extra effort. You can see warpage, but also will see the problem if the pin isn't straight or isn't perfectly centered.

 

[qbilder]

Mr. Biddle, you are a fine & thorough judge. I wondered how long before somebody mentioned the cues not conforming to guidlines. With only two of the cues conforming to the set requirements, this competition is faulted beyond the point of fair assessment.

As for the cues with black rings each side of the wrap, I can vouch for them because some cuemakers assemble glued components with phenolic buffer rings, not for design but for their construction methods. I wouldn't consider that a cheat as it's structural, not decorative.

 

[ftgokie]

Mr. Biddle, you are a fine & thorough judge. I wondered how long before somebody mentioned the cues not conforming to guidlines. With only two of the cues conforming to the set requirements, this competition is faulted beyond the point of fair assessment.

As for the cues with black rings each side of the wrap, I can vouch for them because some cuemakers assemble glued components with phenolic buffer rings, not for design but for their construction methods. I wouldn't consider that a cheat as it's structural, not decorative.

Thanks Eric for your input. I am pretty much holding off until I get the cues back before I say what I have to say. But here WERE the guidelines on how the cue should have been constructed....

1. The cue will have a lightly figured BEM forearm and butt

2. Handle will be Maple or Purpleheart, wrapped or wrapless (up to cue builder) if you specifially build all your cues with PH then use PH.

3. Cue builder to decide to core or not to core

4. cue builders personal taper on shaft

5. Cue builder to use Molavia Medium tips provided by Duc Lam

6. Builder's to use black phenolic collars, buttcap

7. Cuemakers choice on ferrule, pin

8. Weight will be 19oz +/- 0.2oz

9. No ringwork, inlays, points, signatures or trademarks

10. have integrity & build the cue as if somebody had ordered it, the same way you'd build all of your cues"

Shawn

 

[Bamacues]

The AZ Build-off cues have been shipped to the next tester---AZB Member Hellfish, George Cheung via FedEx, #0457188810206613. They are scheduled for delivery either Wednesday afternoon or Thursday,,,Signature required.

This was a lot of fun. I will post the data later, when I have had a chance to sort through it all. While there are no losers in the batch, there is a cue or two that had folks asking to buy it.

I can't wait to find out who made what.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[HeLLFiSH]

The AZ Build-off cues have been shipped to the next tester---AZB Member Hellfish, #0457188810206613. They are scheduled for delivery either Wednesday afternoon or Thursday,,,Signature required.

Hey Joe, I just tried to track the FedEx number, it said it was invalid. Did you mis-type, or did they say it would take a while to get it updated?

PS I cant wait to get them. Thanks

 

[ftgokie]

Hey Joe, I just tried to track the FedEx number, it said it was invalid. Did you mis-type, or did they say it would take a while to get it updated?

PS I cant wait to get them. Thanks

It takes a day for the system to update. I am sure we cal log into the FedEx website and be able to see them tomorrow


George, let us know when you get the cues.


Shawn

 

[HeLLFiSH]

Just picked it up from the FedEx office. Damn 19.5 lbs, its true, looks like a bazooka. Havent opened it up yet, I'm still at work.

 

[ARROWCRUSHER]

I was just curious of how much longer it may be till we find out which cuemakers were involved in makeing cues for this review and if anyone knows when we may have some results ? Thanks <<ED

 

[ftgokie]

I was just curious of how much longer it may be till we find out which cuemakers were involved in makeing cues for this review and if anyone knows when we may have some results ? Thanks <<ED

I will be posting the names of the cuemakers this weekend! :thumbup:

 

[ARROWCRUSHER]

I will be posting the names of the cuemakers this weekend! :thumbup:

KOOL !!! Thanks for doing all this Shawn even know I live no where near any of the place to see the cue's I still wanna say we all appreciate you doing all this on your time ...<<ED

 

[ftgokie]

OK, here goes. After about a year on the road, being tested all over the USA. Here is the list of the cuemakers involved.


Cue #1 Scott Gracio http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=17493

Cue #2 B&D Custom http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=43973

Cue #3 Denali Cues http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=5409

Cue #4 Sliprock http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=1163

Cue#5 Sugartree Cues Eric Crisp

Cue #6 Wes Hunter http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=11336

Cue #7 Sneaky Pete vasilios http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=55296

 

[scruffy1]

Thanks for all the work that went into this! I maybe wrong but is cue number one by Gracio the same person that received all of the cues for evaluation? Also,what was the purpose of having a # five cue in there if we do not know the name of the builder. Thanks again to everyone that submitted reviews.

 

[ftgokie]

Thanks for all the work that went into this! I maybe wrong but is cue number one by Gracio the same person that received all of the cues for evaluation? Also,what was the purpose of having a # five cue in there if we do not know the name of the builder. Thanks again to everyone that submitted reviews.

Eric Crisp, Sugartree Custom Cues is the person that recieved the cues first.

#5 cue, this person just wanted to be unknown for his own person reasons, so I will respect his wishes to remain unknown.

 

[John Biddle]

Thanks Shawn

Thank-you Shawn for having this idea, taking the initiative to follow up on the idea and having the fortitude to stick it out until the end. You have done a great service to you fellow AZBers; not just enabling many of them to participate in a one of a kind experiment, but showing all AZBers that such large scale experiments are possible.

Your spirit and your generosity are an example to us all. Congratulations, sir, on a job very well done!

 

[B & D Custom]

Yes Shawn, thank you for the opportunity to get our's and everyone elses cues into the hands of people that would never had the chance any other way. Good, bad or ugly, people shot with them. They either liked them or not, seems as though everyone was someones favorite and I guess that's what makes a cue custom.

Thanks everyone
Bob & Dave

 

[HollyWood]

Thanks for making it happen -Shawn

I 'd like to say thanks as well for getting to be a part of the game. I am disappointed that 1 maker will not reveal his (or her name). My take on it is,his order list is plenty long,and he knows just how good his cue is.He just wanted to see it picked out. I would have liked to know who said they would participate and didn't. But thats life. Thanks again to everyone who didn't get mentioned. I think it is , was a success. I know it increased my pool knowledge in many ways! sign me up again. All players, I would like to say don't be too proud to keep taking lessons-- thanks Scott Lee Mark

 

[Cueballdg]

AZ Cue Build off

I also would like to express my gratitude for the opportunity to test the cues.
I also would like to know who made cue #5 but completely understand.
If that person reads this and would like to respond via PM that would be appreciated.
Cue #5 was my favorite and #6 was a close second.
And YES sign me up for the next one this was a great that you did Shawn.
Hats off to you Man!!!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::clapping::clapping:

Thanks
CueballDG
Danny

 

[ftgokie]

Guys, sorry I havnt responded here much, training here at work on some new Veterans issues, and also closing on a new pool hall in the next 2 weeks has just got me swamped.

Good, bad or ugly, I enjoyed each and every cue!!!

I want to state this publicly, I would not even remotely hesitate to order a cue from any of the cuemakers involved. Everyone has a different feel for cues, and what I do not like, you might. In my opinion, there are no bad apples in this bunch.

B&D Cues had issues with the shaft of thier cue for whatever reason. But, them guys did not want that shaft out there like that and jumped all over it to make a new one. My hats off to you guys!!!! I am 100% confident the other cuemakers would do the exact same thing.

THis was a new endeavor, and maybe the cuemakers didnt put thier best work forward, I dont know, but I have the utmost confidence in each cuemakers abilities. I would not hesitate to recommend any cuemaker on the list.

Got to get back to class now. Thanks to all the testers, you guys are as trustworthy as they come. I had some doubts, but there are no doubts about the guys that recieved the cues!

Thanks everyone
Shawn