AZB Player Money List - top 10 last 5 years (After IPT)

[Roy Steffensen]

Here is the top 10 earners from each of the last 5 years. Please note that many tournaments are not included. Many European and Asian tournaments are missing, but these numbers are from the AZ Money List which is probably the best updated list in the world right now.

There have been a different top earner each year, with Europe having 4 and America the last one in Shane.

Europe have been on top 10 a total of 22 times during the last 5 years, while Asia have been 16 times and America 12.

Asia been represented with 4, 4, 1, 3, 4 players
Europe with 3, 4, 5, 5, 5
America with 3, 2, 4, 2, 1

The last 5 years a total of $ 4,749,928 have been paid out to those finishing top 10. Only once have a player managed to win more than $ 200,000 in a year, with Mika Immonen in 2009 winning $ 238,320.

Top earners total.
1. Shane Van Boening $ 591,543
2. Mika Immonen $ 539,606
3. Ralf Souquet $ 481,460
4. Darren Appleton $ 470,810
5. Niels Feijen $ 307,202
6. Dennis Orcullo $ 293,651
7. Thorsten Hohmann $ 240,359
8. Johnny Archer $ 226,385

Shane Van Boening is the only player that have been on the top 10 list each year. That surprised me, as I thought Ralf Souquet would be up there too, but in 2007 he "only" cashed in about $ 43 000.

Shane has been top 3 a total of 4 times, with Mika and Ralf making top 3 a total of 3 times each.

2007:
Daryl Peach $123,000
Shane Van Boening $116,307
Niels Feijen $113,665
Ronnie Alcano $76,787
Dennis Orcollo $76,121
Johnny Archer $75,140
Jung-Lin Chang $69,000
Ching-Shun Yang $66,055
Corey Deuel $65,125
Mika Immonen $59,636

2008:
Ralf Souquet $171,852
Mika Immonen $149,582
Shane Van Boening $147,420
Darren Appleton $128,751
Niels Feijen $123,775
Dennis Orcollo $99,942
Francisco Bustamante $83,403
Chia-Ching Wu $72,588
Alex Pagulayan $71,780
Johnny Archer $70,745

2009:
Mika Immonen $238,320
Ralf Souquet $101,037
Shane Van Boening $90,975
Thorsten Hohmann $83,752
Johnny Archer $80,500
Darren Appleton $79,385
Niels Feijen $69,762
John Schmidt $57,150
Lee Vann Corteza $56,700
Corey Deuel $56,395

2010:
Darren Appleton $118,494
Efren Reyes $93,709
Mika Immonen $92,068
Francisco Bustamante $81,851
Karl Boyes $78,483
Shane Van Boening $76,391
Lee Vann Corteza $66,842
Rodney Morris $62,187
Thorsten Hohmann $59,507
Ralf Souquet $58,527

2011:
Shane Van Boening $160,450
Ralf Souquet $150,044
Darren Appleton $144,180
Dennis Orcollo $117,588
Thorsten Hohmann $97,100
Alex Pagulayan $89,360
Pin-Yi Ko $87,500
Chris Melling $84,141
Huidji See $80,377
Si Meng Chen $76,479

 

[Nostroke]

Im sure someone will say "That's pretty good money". But look at #7-8, averaging 30k/yr before travel/entry fees/hotels etc. Yes i know some have sponsors but even some of these guys dont have MONEY sponsors.

 

[Playin4Dinner]

Prob greatest run ever...

Mika cleared 200k of that in the last 5-6 months of 2009.... Prob is the greatest tourney run ever.....

Winning every tourney below....


Qatar Int Open 40k (July)
World Classic 10 25k (Sept)
US Open 9 ball 40k (Oct)
I.C.C. 25k (following week)
World 10 ball 60k (Nov)

Preeeeetty strong.....:wink:

 

[JB Cases]

Who would have thought with all the talk about how American players suck and are doomed to obscurity that the number one earner would be from the USA and that Johnny Archer would be in the top 8?

I bet that someone could have gotten some sizable bets down that an American wouldn't be the top earner post-IPT.

Furthermore, of the top 8 five of them live full time in the USA.

So much for the idea that pro pool is dead in America. It's not where we want it to be, nor where it should or could be, but it's not dead.

 

[billbOK]

Top earners total.
1. Shane Van Boening $ 591,543
2. Mika Immonen $ 539,606
3. Ralf Souquet $ 481,460
4. Darren Appleton $ 470,810
5. Niels Feijen $ 307,202
6. Dennis Orcullo $ 293,651
7. Thorsten Hohmann $ 240,359
8. Johnny Archer $ 226,385

Funny that it is exactly the composition of the 2009 european Mosconi cup team.

They have lost 11-8 to the USA team in wich JA and SVB were in.

 

[jason]

Efren is on the list only once. I wonder if he has lost the desire to play after the big IPT payday?

JA is strong on the list...mark one up for the middle age class. (thats me too Johnny!)

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Efren is on the list only once. I wonder if he has lost the desire to play after the big IPT payday?

JA is strong on the list...mark one up for the middle age class. (thats me too Johnny!)

FYI, Ralf Souquet and Johnny Archer were both born in November 1968

Regarding Efren, he is soon 60 years old, he only compete abroad when there is big money to win, if it suits his schedule etc. You can't expect him to travel the world like a youngster anymore, he is making an ok living in Manila, playing money games.

 

[Grilled Cheese]

Ouch.


That's a big reason as to why so many good players prefer to do other things and not fully devote themselves to pool. You basically have to be amongst the world's ELITE...and maintain that, in order to make a basic living. Divide up those winnings over the 5 years, subtract a lot of expenses the players have (it's not all sponsored), figure in the times they've been stiffed by tournaments and promoters...they don't take home those numbers posted above.


Now, consider this:

#200 Michael Letzig $169,973

That's #200 on the PGA (golf) Tour for the year of 2011.

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/current/money_projections-1.html

They make more than that. Their sponsors cover more, they get more free stuff and more comps. Not to mention, that only counts PGA sanctioned events.



There you have it, #200 in golf, who doesn't even get a tour card, is making more a year than than pool's #1. Now, a golfer would argue that #200 on their tour is more of a professional and more of a professional athlete than #1 in pool. I disagree, but there are those who believe that there is a direct correlation between how difficult something is, or how much work it takes it become elite, or how much raw talent is needed and how much money is involved. In other words, Tom Brady makes that money, because only he and a few other elite QB's can play that level. And, by extension - those sports are popular and followed because of these reasons, the difficulty, the talent required. I don't agree. I think those are more popular for other reasons. I also find such arguments as condescending and insulting of the skills and talent required for cue sports. There's also the theory, that if pool had golf's money, the current champions would be left in the dust by a new breed of champions who are better athletes or who have more talent (because the talent pool has been opting for other sports and games).


Anyway,


How much is #200 in pool making a year? Heck, no one can even determine who is #200. Pool is so highly decentralized, spread out, with so many events, organizations and such...there's no list or commonality of tournaments played by a bulk of the top players. Pool cannot even determine a top 25 ranking list. There are so many great Taiwanese players, Filipinos, Europeans and others who just don't play on other continents. Thus, money is the only way to judge and with that in pool we can get a rough estimate of the rankings. The difference is that in golf, there's so much money in it, that it's worth it for more players to make the effort to travel and go to tournaments all over - because you can make a living being #200. That's just not possible in pool. Because of that, there's all kinds of great players all over who are "unknown" beyond their locale. You hardly see that in golf. The money brings everyone out.



All the pro pool players know this. Which is why there's a little bitterness, and they're disillusioned with pro pool. Especially American players. They know what's up. It's utterly brutal to be amongst the elite of pool, just to fight for a living. It's a small, small club for those who can live on pool. Not much room in there for others. It's nearly a king of the hill kind of situation. Again, just for a living. It's not like they are playing for some kind of huge prize or riches. It's about survival, not about dreams.

Everyone here can put together a list of 50 top pros where it's hard to tell who might come out on top of the other in head to head challenge matches, such as TAR for example. There's players with little to show on money or ranking lists that can play even or nearly even with some of the elite. Then there are all those lesser known players from around the world.


A lot of players cannot avoid that thought in the back of their head. That terrible, terrible thought. It's very undermining and destructive. It's the thought that, was it wise to spend so many thousands and thousands of hours, days, years of their life learning the game and getting close to pro speed or they are pros and are nearing top level? Could they have put that same amount of effort, time, desire, and drive toward something else - like golf? They do possess a certain higher level of hand eye coordination talent. Pool IS NOT ALL MENTAL. That whole thing, which is for another thread, is wildly abused by amateurs to make excuses as to why they cannot excel. The physical aspect is severely underrated and underestimated. Pro pool players know that they achieved a level of excellence in something. They know they know how to learn. They know they know how to sacrifice and work hard to achieve high level play.


Thus, some of them wonder - should they have done something else?


That's a terrible thing to think after they've essentially invested their lives into something. But it's hard not to. I think this is at the heart of several players who struggle with pro pool. They don't have to. They could be greats. But for what? Not everyone can drive or desire to be great, just for the title of being great. Some people need or want the financial gain, the other prizes that goes along with being elite at something.


It's like what I said in the Mosconi Cup thread about American vs. Euro players....the Euros are, on average, more interested in pool for the the titles than the American players are. They both want the money of course. But the titles and the status of being a top pro means more to the Euro players. The Euro players are more accepting of pool as how it is. Filipinos aren't really as big on titles or the status of being a pro or elite. They are even more money-centric than Americans by far. It's just that they come from a poor country, and the money in pool is good for them by their standards.



It's hard for new young players to have dreams of greatness when they know they have to become as good as SVB in order to basically make what a plumber in a busy city makes. Most of the time, less.


It's sad.


That said, no matter how dumb you are, no matter how bad you were at school - college is a lot easier and cheaper, with a much higher percentage chance of payoff, than a career in pro pool.

 

[Black-Balled]

Muchos palabras...

Difficulty has little to do with value.

We have a poor perspective on its place in the World- we all love pool.

Support your local artist.
Support your local cyclist.
Support your local gardener.
Support your local drummer.
Support your local skater.
etc...

Ouch.


That's a big reason as to why so many good players prefer to do other things and not fully devote themselves to pool. You basically have to be amongst the world's ELITE...and maintain that, in order to make a basic living. Divide up those winnings over the 5 years, subtract a lot of expenses the players have (it's not all sponsored), figure in the times they've been stiffed by tournaments and promoters...they don't take home those numbers posted above.


Now, consider this:

#200 Michael Letzig $169,973

That's #200 on the PGA (golf) Tour for the year of 2011.

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/current/money_projections-1.html

They make more than that. Their sponsors cover more, they get more free stuff and more comps. Not to mention, that only counts PGA sanctioned events.



There you have it, #200 in golf, who doesn't even get a tour card, is making more a year than than pool's #1. Now, a golfer would argue that #200 on their tour is more of a professional and more of a professional athlete than #1 in pool. I disagree, but there are those who believe that there is a direct correlation between how difficult something is, or how much work it takes it become elite, or how much raw talent is needed and how much money is involved. In other words, Tom Brady makes that money, because only he and a few other elite QB's can play that level. And, by extension - those sports are popular and followed because of these reasons, the difficulty, the talent required. I don't agree. I think those are more popular for other reasons. I also find such arguments as condescending and insulting of the skills and talent required for cue sports. There's also the theory, that if pool had golf's money, the current champions would be left in the dust by a new breed of champions who are better athletes or who have more talent (because the talent pool has been opting for other sports and games).


Anyway,


How much is #200 in pool making a year? Heck, no one can even determine who is #200. Pool is so highly decentralized, spread out, with so many events, organizations and such...there's no list or commonality of tournaments played by a bulk of the top players. Pool cannot even determine a top 25 ranking list. There are so many great Taiwanese players, Filipinos, Europeans and others who just don't play on other continents. Thus, money is the only way to judge and with that in pool we can get a rough estimate of the rankings. The difference is that in golf, there's so much money in it, that it's worth it for more players to make the effort to travel and go to tournaments all over - because you can make a living being #200. That's just not possible in pool. Because of that, there's all kinds of great players all over who are "unknown" beyond their locale. You hardly see that in golf. The money brings everyone out.



All the pro pool players know this. Which is why there's a little bitterness, and they're disillusioned with pro pool. Especially American players. They know what's up. It's utterly brutal to be amongst the elite of pool, just to fight for a living. It's a small, small club for those who can live on pool. Not much room in there for others. It's nearly a king of the hill kind of situation. Again, just for a living. It's not like they are playing for some kind of huge prize or riches. It's about survival, not about dreams.

Everyone here can put together a list of 50 top pros where it's hard to tell who might come out on top of the other in head to head challenge matches, such as TAR for example. There's players with little to show on money or ranking lists that can play even or nearly even with some of the elite. Then there are all those lesser known players from around the world.


A lot of players cannot avoid that thought in the back of their head. That terrible, terrible thought. It's very undermining and destructive. It's the thought that, was it wise to spend so many thousands and thousands of hours, days, years of their life learning the game and getting close to pro speed or they are pros and are nearing top level? Could they have put that same amount of effort, time, desire, and drive toward something else - like golf? They do possess a certain higher level of hand eye coordination talent. Pool IS NOT ALL MENTAL. That whole thing, which is for another thread, is wildly abused by amateurs to make excuses as to why they cannot excel. The physical aspect is severely underrated and underestimated. Pro pool players know that they achieved a level of excellence in something. They know they know how to learn. They know they know how to sacrifice and work hard to achieve high level play.


Thus, some of them wonder - should they have done something else?


That's a terrible thing to think after they've essentially invested their lives into something. But it's hard not to. I think this is at the heart of several players who struggle with pro pool. They don't have to. They could be greats. But for what? Not everyone can drive or desire to be great, just for the title of being great. Some people need or want the financial gain, the other prizes that goes along with being elite at something.


It's like what I said in the Mosconi Cup thread about American vs. Euro players....the Euros are, on average, more interested in pool for the the titles than the American players are. They both want the money of course. But the titles and the status of being a top pro means more to the Euro players. The Euro players are more accepting of pool as how it is. Filipinos aren't really as big on titles or the status of being a pro or elite. They are even more money-centric than Americans by far. It's just that they come from a poor country, and the money in pool is good for them by their standards.



It's hard for new young players to have dreams of greatness when they know they have to become as good as SVB in order to basically make what a plumber in a busy city makes. Most of the time, less.


It's sad.


That said, no matter how dumb you are, no matter how bad you were at school - college is a lot easier and cheaper, with a much higher percentage chance of payoff, than a career in pro pool.

 

[JB Cases]

That said, no matter how dumb you are, no matter how bad you were at school - college is a lot easier and cheaper, with a much higher percentage chance of payoff, than a career in pro pool.

Yeah, but then you don't get to travel the world and get paid for playing pool.

That's why there are people on this forum making a great living with health care and savings and the like and still they WISH they were good enough to play at the elite level.

There are plenty of other sports and activities in the world that pay less than pool.

At some point it's not really about the money. It's about having a skill that is better than 99.9% of the world's population, not being beholden to anyone else, not having to show up every day at 9am and slogging through a job you hate until 5pm when you face another 90minutes fighting traffic.

It's about being somewhat of a gunslinger, the last of a breed. Traveling the world matching up with the other gunslingers to see who will live and who die that day.

 

[thintowin]

word. there is something to be said for not being in the rat race of guaranteed paydays, healthcare, 401ks and corporate sponsorships. granted these things become more important as someone grows older but while you are young and full of $#@; matching up everyday for your "daily bread" has a certain allure doesn't it?

 

[Grilled Cheese]

Yeah, but then you don't get to travel the world and get paid for playing pool.

That's why there are people on this forum making a great living with health care and savings and the like and still they WISH they were good enough to play at the elite level.

There are plenty of other sports and activities in the world that pay less than pool.

At some point it's not really about the money. It's about having a skill that is better than 99.9% of the world's population, not being beholden to anyone else, not having to show up every day at 9am and slogging through a job you hate until 5pm when you face another 90minutes fighting traffic.

It's about being somewhat of a gunslinger, the last of a breed. Traveling the world matching up with the other gunslingers to see who will live and who die that day.

Definitely a very romantic depiction of the pro pool player.

You've been around long enough to know the variations of "he over cut the rent/room" ...

If you're in the top, amongst the elite. It's not bad. Never said it was. However, a lot of players out there have spent many nights sleeping in their car and living off of grilled cheese sandwiches.

If they feel like gunslingers or badasses to be amongst that 1/10 of 1% of pool players. That's great. More power to them. I just don't see how one can feel like they are conquering the world sleeping at truck stops. Wearing dirty clothes. Not having any financial stability. Not knowing if the bills can be paid, or if dinner is on.

People wish for a lot of things. They wish for the skill, but they don't wish for the lifestyle as it really is lived. Everyone wants to play like a pro. But I bet most don't want to live a life on the road, slugging it out all day long against other top players to win pathetic amounts in most tournaments. Most tournaments in America, for most players, barely covers expenses for the players. It's dismal out there.


The idea is to be the man, to be that guy who can play that way - AND get paid for it. Only a few do, relative to the masses of pro speed players out there. The snooker guys, they got the money.


You're smarter than most, you make a living selling pool - not playing it.

 

[Maniac]

It's hard for new young players to have dreams of greatness when they know they have to become as good as SVB in order to basically make what a plumber in a busy city makes.

Or, an automobile assembler like I was.

Hell, I made more money than a LOT of pro pool players in my 30 years in the factory. Sad thing is, I've made more money than a bunch of them by sitting around on my ass doing nothing and drawing a pension for the last 10 years (I retired at age 49). How many pro poolplayers do you think are ever going to draw a pension or Social Security for that matter? I'd have to seriously think about other choices if I was a young man or woman thinking about pool as a career. If I live to be 80, I'm going to end up making right at one million dollars in pension alone!!! And.....all I ever had to do was shoot pool for FUN, not to put food on the table and/or a roof over my head.

Maniac (never shied away from a day of hard work)

 

[JB Cases]

word. there is something to be said for not being in the rat race of guaranteed paydays, healthcare, 401ks and corporate sponsorships. granted these things become more important as someone grows older but while you are young and full of $#@; matching up everyday for your "daily bread" has a certain allure doesn't it?

Yes actually it does. It's called freedom. Look at all the people who lost their "guaranteed" jobs/paydays and who are losing their homes now.

I know a guy who isn't a top professional. He is a gambler on pool only and he doesn't even do the road. Still he has a house that's 100% paid for free and clear. He put two kids through college and has no debt as far as I know. He is a superb game maker and manages his money exceptionally well.

That type of player is of course the exception among players whose only "profession" is pool.

The pro pool player is one of the last free spirits in professional pool that there is. Even in pro golf you are not free as you have to work hard to get and maintain that coveted tour card. And when you are on the main tour then you are beholden to sponsors and promoters and press agents and agents and and and.......for now at least most pool players don't have to deal with all that. Of course they will all say they would love to have those problems if the golf money came with it. But we all know that no matter what level you are at there are trade offs.

I wouldn't now trade my family for a life as a pro player. But if you had asked me five years ago if I would take a 9:5 for 100k a year or instantly have the skill to play at the elite level I would have taken the skill and gone "pro" for whatever it would have been worth at the time.

 

[JB Cases]

Definitely a very romantic depiction of the pro pool player.

You've been around long enough to know the variations of "he over cut the rent/room" ...

If you're in the top, amongst the elite. It's not bad. Never said it was. However, a lot of players out there have spent many nights sleeping in their car and living off of grilled cheese sandwiches.

If they feel like gunslingers or badasses to be amongst that 1/10 of 1% of pool players. That's great. More power to them. I just don't see how one can feel like they are conquering the world sleeping at truck stops. Wearing dirty clothes. Not having any financial stability. Not knowing if the bills can be paid, or if dinner is on.

People wish for a lot of things. They wish for the skill, but they don't wish for the lifestyle as it really is lived. Everyone wants to play like a pro. But I bet most don't want to live a life on the road, slugging it out all day long against other top players to win pathetic amounts in most tournaments. Most tournaments in America, for most players, barely covers expenses for the players. It's dismal out there.


The idea is to be the man, to be that guy who can play that way - AND get paid for it. Only a few do, relative to the masses of pro speed players out there. The snooker guys, they got the money.


You're smarter than most, you make a living selling pool - not playing it.

The thing is that winning money on the pool table is a drug. You don't know how easy it is for the best guys when they are running the road. Now not so much but there is still action out there. So the WORST thing that can happen to a good player is to make a decent score.

The adrenaline spike the high you get is incredible. You can't take a drug to get you higher. Walking out after battling for hours and days with thousands, tens of thousands in your pocket is something you have to earn and you ONLY get it by beating everyone in the joint.

So any player sleeping in his car is doing so because he has tasted that euphoric victory. He knows that the next one is going to be the big score, the millionaire who will go off and lose 100k, the a-player who will take the seven and lose 5k etc....just playing good, gonna snap off the Open this year and the get invited to all the big events with a guaranteed spot.......

It doesn't matter what sport you are in. It takes a lot of grilled cheese level players to build a pyramid for the Kobe Beef players to stand on. Everyone eating grilled cheese has to be chasing the dream. And believe me there are sports/hobbies in the world where people chase it for far less financial reward.

It's senseless to compare the money in pool with anything else. It is what it is because of many factors. One could say that the biggest sport of all is comparing sports.

I look at this list and think wow, I didn't know Shane was raking it in like that. I can still remember when Nick Varner made headlines (in the pool mags) for being the first guy to win 100k in prize money in a single year. And he did that by winning every or nearly every pro event that year. Shane isn't even winning them all and he is still pulling down 170k - that's strong to me.

I don't care what the #20 guy is making. He can quit if he wants to. But he wont' because he knows that his time is coming and he will break into the next level real soon.

 

[Black-Balled]

Definitely a very romantic depiction of the pro pool player.

...a lot of players out there have spent many nights sleeping in their car and living off of grilled cheese sandwiches.

...sleeping at truck stops.
...Wearing dirty clothes.
...Not having any financial stability.
..Not knowing if the bills can be paid, or if dinner is on.

...they don't wish for the lifestyle as it really is lived. Everyone wants to play like a pro. But

...I bet most don't want to live a life on the road, slugging it out all day long against other top players to win pathetic amounts in most tournaments.
...Most tournaments in America, for most players, barely covers expenses for the players. It's dismal out there.

you do realize that basically all 'pro' pool players have chosen to do what they do, right?

It is kinda like moving to the woods and complaining the city is too far away. Well, duh.

 

[trustyrusty]

Yes actually it does. It's called freedom. Look at all the people who lost their "guaranteed" jobs/paydays and who are losing their homes now.

I know a guy who isn't a top professional. He is a gambler on pool only and he doesn't even do the road. Still he has a house that's 100% paid for free and clear. He put two kids through college and has no debt as far as I know. He is a superb game maker and manages his money exceptionally well.

That type of player is of course the exception among players whose only "profession" is pool.

The pro pool player is one of the last free spirits in professional pool that there is. Even in pro golf you are not free as you have to work hard to get and maintain that coveted tour card. And when you are on the main tour then you are beholden to sponsors and promoters and press agents and agents and and and.......for now at least most pool players don't have to deal with all that. Of course they will all say they would love to have those problems if the golf money came with it. But we all know that no matter what level you are at there are trade offs.

I wouldn't now trade my family for a life as a pro player. But if you had asked me five years ago if I would take a 9:5 for 100k a year or instantly have the skill to play at the elite level I would have taken the skill and gone "pro" for whatever it would have been worth at the time.

really? Only way I'd put that much time into something (a game) is if I were REALLY compensated for it. Like, say, Albert Puhols ($254M for 10 years). And at least baseball has an off season to enjoy some of that money. Nonstop travel and living out of a suitcase just doesn't appeal to me. I like coming home from work and playing with my son, and then sitting down to eat dinner with my wife and kid....So, much so, if the Puhols deal did come my way, I might ask my agent to get a SHORTER deal (you can miss al lot in 10 years)...lol

 

[Grilled Cheese]

The thing is that winning money on the pool table is a drug. You don't know how easy it is for the best guys when they are running the road. Now not so much but there is still action out there. So the WORST thing that can happen to a good player is to make a decent score.

The adrenaline spike the high you get is incredible. You can't take a drug to get you higher. Walking out after battling for hours and days with thousands, tens of thousands in your pocket is something you have to earn and you ONLY get it by beating everyone in the joint.

So any player sleeping in his car is doing so because he has tasted that euphoric victory. He knows that the next one is going to be the big score, the millionaire who will go off and lose 100k, the a-player who will take the seven and lose 5k etc....just playing good, gonna snap off the Open this year and the get invited to all the big events with a guaranteed spot.......

It doesn't matter what sport you are in. It takes a lot of grilled cheese level players to build a pyramid for the Kobe Beef players to stand on. Everyone eating grilled cheese has to be chasing the dream. And believe me there are sports/hobbies in the world where people chase it for far less financial reward.

It's senseless to compare the money in pool with anything else. It is what it is because of many factors. One could say that the biggest sport of all is comparing sports.

I look at this list and think wow, I didn't know Shane was raking it in like that. I can still remember when Nick Varner made headlines (in the pool mags) for being the first guy to win 100k in prize money in a single year. And he did that by winning every or nearly every pro event that year. Shane isn't even winning them all and he is still pulling down 170k - that's strong to me.

I don't care what the #20 guy is making. He can quit if he wants to. But he wont' because he knows that his time is coming and he will break into the next level real soon.

I've always appreciated your posts and insight. I will agree on this, it does make things more interesting. While not exploitation (because they choose to do it), there is a lot of flavor, action and very exciting and interesting things in pool because of the way is today. A lot of that would be lost if pool got big. It would be better for the players though if pool did get big. Those of us who like those unique and special aspects of pool would miss that stuff. These are things created because of the impoverished state of pool. Conditions and situations created because there is a disparity between winners and losers, and there's no outside money. It's a zero-sum game. Leads to some intense struggle. Big risks. Euphoric wins for some, utter misery for others. Makes for great entertainment, but it's ugly at the core.


Given the choice, I would bet that the vast majority of pro speed players would prefer to make their living off of tournament winnings and sponsorships than the road. Imagine being #100 and making a good living? That's a no brainer.


I remember the IPT quite well. I'll never forget the things I saw during that. The way players felt during and then after. Learned a lot from that. I was saddened merely witnessing the sadness of many of the players....

 

[ironman]

The thing is that winning money on the pool table is a drug. You don't know how easy it is for the best guys when they are running the road. Now not so much but there is still action out there. So the WORST thing that can happen to a good player is to make a decent score.

The adrenaline spike the high you get is incredible. You can't take a drug to get you higher. Walking out after battling for hours and days with thousands, tens of thousands in your pocket is something you have to earn and you ONLY get it by beating everyone in the joint.

So any player sleeping in his car is doing so because he has tasted that euphoric victory. He knows that the next one is going to be the big score, the millionaire who will go off and lose 100k, the a-player who will take the seven and lose 5k etc....just playing good, gonna snap off the Open this year and the get invited to all the big events with a guaranteed spot.......

It doesn't matter what sport you are in. It takes a lot of grilled cheese level players to build a pyramid for the Kobe Beef players to stand on. Everyone eating grilled cheese has to be chasing the dream. And believe me there are sports/hobbies in the world where people chase it for far less financial reward.

It's senseless to compare the money in pool with anything else. It is what it is because of many factors. One could say that the biggest sport of all is comparing sports.

I look at this list and think wow, I didn't know Shane was raking it in like that. I can still remember when Nick Varner made headlines (in the pool mags) for being the first guy to win 100k in prize money in a single year. And he did that by winning every or nearly every pro event that year. Shane isn't even winning them all and he is still pulling down 170k - that's strong to me.

I don't care what the #20 guy is making. He can quit if he wants to. But he wont' because he knows that his time is coming and he will break into the next level real soon.

I understand your argument but, how many #20's are there in this country alone? I would dare to say at least 100 and probably far more. Some have the patience and determination toe weather the storm and survive the grilled cheese. Most who don't by age 26-27-28, won't. At some point the grind will wear them down. The end result being so paultry and even depressing.
When the IPT came along many got a breath of fresh air and saw it as the savior. many went into hock and some even playing in suits with the price tags taped to the inner sleeve so that they could be returned. Many were selling their souls to be a part of it. The product produced was even pretty shabby and the level of play not what most dreamed. It was al built on lie and even the biggest liar of all was sold a bill of goods.
A few years later and the game is right back where it was before the whole IPT sham/scam. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? No but there is a grilled cheese sandwich!

 

[cleary]

I understand your argument but, how many #20's are there in this country alone? I would dare to say at least 100 and probably far more. Some have the patience and determination toe weather the storm and survive the grilled cheese. Most who don't by age 26-27-28, won't. At some point the grind will wear them down. The end result being so paultry and even depressing.
When the IPT came along many got a breath of fresh air and saw it as the savior. many went into hock and some even playing in suits with the price tags taped to the inner sleeve so that they could be returned. Many were selling their souls to be a part of it. The product produced was even pretty shabby and the level of play not what most dreamed. It was al built on lie and even the biggest liar of all was sold a bill of goods.
A few years later and the game is right back where it was before the whole IPT sham/scam. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? No but there is a grilled cheese sandwich!

I understand what you're saying but when I think about the IPT, I don't really think it was a scam as much as it was a failure. To my knowledge, the ultimate goal of the IPT was to allow online gambling of matches and in 2006 is when the internet gambling laws came into effect. Which was also the last year the IPT had a tournament.

I don't know the exact numbers but I do know KT put a good deal of money into pool in a very short time. I believe everyone has been paid or close... but reguardless, for a short time players got a good sum of money.

In the long run, yea it sucks. But would it be better if the IPT never threw a few million into pool?