Backer Wanted for Million Dollar Challenge - Mike Davis
- Thread starter Mike Davis
- Start date
Pool will become more interesting when there is more drama=money.Celtic said:
Jim Kuykendall said:
You mean like elbow jabs?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
JoeyA said:
You can check out a list of satellites and locations by visiting www.milliondollar9ball.com/locations.html
Also, if you join our free mailing list, or sign up on the site that you are interested in playing, then you will automatically receive email updates whenever a new satellite is added to our site...
good luck!
i was talking about the Professional Players Championship 2 grand is alot of money to most people espacially if you are backing yourself .at 500 there is 32,000 in the pot why dont sponsors add money valley forge is a very big event and it makes a ton of money i just think there is a way for allen to add money or get sponsors to add money, just a thought ,but i think making the entry fee really high is gonna make it alot harder for most palyers to play in the event, i own my own buisness and couldnt afford to pay that , i know a few very strong open players who are capable of winning there but cant play or wont pay 500 for the event, its a real shame that to make it in this sport it cost more money than its worth unless you are ranked in the top ten on the money list no disrespect to anyone just giving a differant point of veiw hereallen_jr said:
Fatboy said:
I understand what you are saying, but I don't know if million-dollar tournaments will get pool on TV. The IPT, the pool entity that is a controversial subject AT ALL TIMES on this forum, had multi-million-dollar tournaments in Vegas, Orlando, Vegas again, and Reno. I didn't see squat on TV about it. I don't know if the PR for IPT was good, bad, or lacking, but pool on TV seems to be an oxymoron. It just doesn't happen very often. If you think about it, it is embarassing to see first-place prize monies of previous pool events as 8-, 10-, and $15,000. Maybe that is why the media doesn't pay attention.
Allen Hopkins is a rare gem in the pool industry. I know for a fact that his pro events in Valley Forge have a waiting list. If you don't pay your entry fee ahead of time, you snooze and you lose, as they say.
His specialty events like this and Skins Billiards and Texas Hold'em pool events do get TV coverage. The entry fee for Skins was $5,000. The majority players who competed in one Skins event in Atlantic City at the Hilton (not Resorts) were sponsored. I only know of three players who were not sponsored out of 15 or 18. I can't remember how many players there were. For the majority of players I know, coming up with $5,000 as an entry fee is extremely difficult.
I can't wait to talk to Allen Hopkins, Sr., on the upcoming the tournament trail. He is always a delight to talk to. In fact, we may just call him up on the phone, but I would rather speak to him in person. If we are lucky, we may run into him in Atlantic City. We're going up there to play poker soon. There's a few things Keith and I both want to relay to him. :smile:
Every event Allen Hopkins, Sr., puts on is a success, and he has the respect of the pool community. He always seems to come up with innovative ideas. He's truly one of the good guys in this pool world. I am so happy he got inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame this year, along with Pat Fleming, another pool jewel. It couldn't have happened to better person.
That said, Allen is trying to make this million-dollar event affordable by having qualifing tournaments for the entry fees. That's a great idea, and I hope it works.
JAM
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JAM said:
I honestly don't mean this in any way negatively, quite the reverse.
When you cut away all the chaff, at the end of the day Allen is simply offering anyone of any level of pool ability from anywhere a $5,000/- dollar place in a tournament to be run under his reliable auspices.
He also certainly, and quite rightly so, doesn't seem to have any stipulations about how any particular group of people pool their money to send an entrant to the event and even if he did, how would he police it?
Only one of those ways for groups of players to pool money is via qualifying events. These are plain common sense in order to make it affordable but according to the website Allen doesn't organise those qualifying events nor have any rules over their format, that's entirely down to any room or club or group of players who are inclined to run one.
If alternatively you want to hold a raffle between 10 of you at $500 each there's nothing to stop you and you could then can give the winning ticket holder the $5,000 dollars and he can buy and send in his own entry independently or he could even sponsor another player of his choosing. Two guys can play each other at golf for $2,500 and the winner buy his entry. There appears to be no added benefit to someone gaining entry through a qualifying event to him gaining entry by winning the $5,000 dollars in a raffle or a bare knuckle fight or at the race track. He will just be another entrant.
What Allen has uniquely got and deserves is the level of trust that should never have been given to this idea's recently deceased uncle. There can be precious little doubt that he will fulfil his promise of paying out promptly a prize fund commensurate in total with the actual number of entries.
It has to be hoped that when the first event next month almost inevitably falls short of the full number of $5k entrants required for a full million dollar prize fund, the pool playing and supporting public are astute and patient enough to realise that Rome wasn't built in a day and to stick with it for future events to give the numbers a fair crack of the whip to build up. Someone walking off with a first prize of even $75,000/- in the first event will be good news for the sport if viewed in perspective.
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memikey said:
Those are some very good thoughts, and I agree with much of what you say.
I guess I should state the obvious. When world beaters come on AzBilliards Discussion Forum a la John Schmidt, it should speak a little bit about the state of the pool economy. Most pool players -- to include world champions, Hall of Famers, UPA Rookies of the Year, UPA Players of the Year, BCA Open winners, U.S. 9-Ball Champions -- cannot afford a $5,000 entry fee and the associated expenses with attending the tournaments, i.e., travel and lodging expenses.
The qualifiers are a GREAT idea, but I am not sure how many of them there will be for competent players to enter. I hope there are MANY. However, that said, in today's pool world, a first prize of $5,000 (entry fee to this event) is the exception rather than the norm.
If anybody can pull this off, though, it would be Mr. Allen Hopkins. He has the trust of the pool community, enjoys a sterling track record in the industry, and can deliver the goods.
JAM
Fatboy said:ok that's twice in this thread that Mike has been named one of the good ones, I agree 100%.
Who are the bad ones???
That Mike Fuller is a real butthole! LOL!! Just kidn'=) Mike and his dad are some of my best friends and they both can really roll the rock..
I don't know any bad guys really....
gpeezy
for sale!
I think pool on TV can really only be enjoyed by those that have already fell in love with the game. I think if people got to watch some woofing on TV they may become more interested from a non player base. People do pick favorites in the pool world. People love to sweat their favorite player in action. Someone had mentioned before of maybe a reality TV show of poolrooms, players, tournaments, etc. I have friends that can't stand watching pool on TV. They will watch the trick shots for a while but even that doesn't last long. I can tell them stories from say the Derby or whatever, and I'll have their attention till I finish and then they will ask questions wanting to know more. Pool players are intriguing. The whole hustler, gambler, rambler life style is what most wish they could do. Any slice of that pie grabs ones attention whether it be TV or internet. Threads about action on here go forever. Be nice to see if a TV show could have a similar run.JAM said:
gpeezy said:
I, of course, agree with you 100 percent. :thumbup:
Unfortunately for you and me, though, there is one school of thought, especially in the American pool culture, that believes that the "whole hustler, gambler, rambler lifestyle" is what is keeping pool from advancing.
There are two completely opposite opinions about pool that exist. Maybe this would be a good poll for a thread. LOL! Hmm...
JAM
So... does anyone know if Mike has found a backer yet? Or is there going to be a raffle-type thing?
memikey said:
Thanks for pointing all of this out. This is precisely what we are trying to achieve. Although we would prefer that people don't have a bare-knuckle fight for the entry fee
The point is correct, we want the average player to be able to qualify into this event for $25 or $50. This is VERY reasonable. Let me give a scenario:
Suppose you are the best player in your local poolroom. Lets say you are a solid 6 in the APA. You are not a world champion, or even state champion, but in the small bar/poolroom you hang out in, you are the best. Not unbeatable, but a small favorite against everyone. You could persuade the owner/manager to organize some mini-satellites there. Get the room owner to host 8-man $25 tournaments a couple nights a week. These could be handicapped, your choice. You figure to be a favorite. Make it known that eventually there will be a $200 tournament that people can win their way into... this can be handicapped also, doesnt matter. The eventual winner of that tournament will now be playing in the $5000 buy in event. Now, you can repeat the whole process and then 2 players can be in the main event...
So now, come August, you show up in Valley Forge and you find out that 150 other poolrooms around this huge country did the same thing. Unfortunately, 25 of the World's best poolplayers have posted $5000 to play in this event. Even worse, another 25 of some of the most talented, completely unknown road player have gotten their backers to sponsor them for the entry (all handled by Allen Hopkins Productions, so there is no worry for the sponsors about getting paid or players running off)...
So now, here you are. You have just made it into the 3rd annual $1,000,000 9 Ball Shootout. You have paid $25 to play in this event. So have another 149 of the total 225 players in this event. There is a staggering $1,125,000 in prize money. You are guaranteed $1000 just for showing up....
So now, of course there is a draw. Lucky for you, you won't face a World Class player or solid unknown player until at least the third round. By this point, you are guaranteed $10,000.
So yes, most of you are right, the average player may not have a chance to win this. However, they can have a great time and make good money. This is the plan. The satellites are not expensive. The minis are even cheaper. Yes, this event does require a lot of involvement at the local level. No, we cannot be everywhere and make these local events happen. But what we can do is organize an event, show people how it can work, and do our best to promote it. The word will get out, and people will see how great this can be! Yes, it will take time, but it can happen.
If you don't think this model can work, just stroll on over to the Rio and watch the World Series of Poker for about 10 minutes. How many of those 1000's of players posted $10,000 to get in? Yes, poker is different, but money is money. We all want it, we're just trying to create a system to get it. There is NO ADDED MONEY in poker tournaments. Sponsors ARE NOT ADDING MONEY to the prize pool, its quite the opposite, the house is taking a nice cut OUT of the players pockets, and no one says a word. AND, only 10 percent of the entrants will get any cash.
If you read all this, thanks... feel free to discuss. Oh yeah, please check out the "Tournament Announcement" section of the site, because we keep adding satellite events...
the model does work, poker prove that. It should work with pool too, over time. The has to be something in it for the organizers of the qualifers-small poker rooms get a rake. The pool players win the $1000 for showing up and more if they get a soft draw but to get those players to populate your big tournment guys like Mike Janice or Shannon need a piece of the pie too.
There is money built into the satellite formats for promoters... A 32 player $200 entry fee event allows for 1 entry into the main event, $400 for 2nd, $200 for 3rd and 4th each... then: $200 for the promoter and $200 for the location.
It is tough to provide money for the organizer at the mini-satellite level, but the room can profit by having tables full and players lingering...
It is tough to provide money for the organizer at the mini-satellite level, but the room can profit by having tables full and players lingering...
Money issues...
The largest paying event, the World Series of Poker, main event has over 7000 entries. The Rio has TAKEN $600 FROM EVERY PLAYER. That is $4,200,000. Thats 4.2 million. That is just their take. That is just for this event, which is only 1 out of 55 or so "World Series" events, all of which they take a cut out of... There is NO ADDED MONEY. There is NO SPONSOR MONEY ADDED. Yes, there are sponsors, but the Rio gets that money too. Plus the merchandising money, food and beverage, tv money, and the room rentals, and so on... I can't even imagine how much they make by having the "World Series" events in their casino. I could live for 5 years on what the litte Starbucks in the hallway probably brings in during those 6 weeks.
Now I have no problem with that. They offer a product that everyone wants a piece of, and some players will get very rich from this event. However, the truth is still there, all of that money is coming out of the event. Poker players are not winning huge sums of money because sponsors or promoters are adding it to the prize pool. Poker players are posting large sums of money to win large sums of money. They have created the action because they all think they can win. Now I know poker is much more luck based, I am not trying to start a discussion about poker vs pool. I am trying to illustrate the power and necessity of getting the money into these events. Sponsors and promoters cant keep adding money, and players will never survive if payouts don't increase. If you can't afford the entry, find a sponsor or someone who believes in you enough to post the money on your behalf. Once you start winning big tournament money, and all the events pay big money, the top players will have more money...
tattoosbyjay said:
The largest paying event, the World Series of Poker, main event has over 7000 entries. The Rio has TAKEN $600 FROM EVERY PLAYER. That is $4,200,000. Thats 4.2 million. That is just their take. That is just for this event, which is only 1 out of 55 or so "World Series" events, all of which they take a cut out of... There is NO ADDED MONEY. There is NO SPONSOR MONEY ADDED. Yes, there are sponsors, but the Rio gets that money too. Plus the merchandising money, food and beverage, tv money, and the room rentals, and so on... I can't even imagine how much they make by having the "World Series" events in their casino. I could live for 5 years on what the litte Starbucks in the hallway probably brings in during those 6 weeks.
Now I have no problem with that. They offer a product that everyone wants a piece of, and some players will get very rich from this event. However, the truth is still there, all of that money is coming out of the event. Poker players are not winning huge sums of money because sponsors or promoters are adding it to the prize pool. Poker players are posting large sums of money to win large sums of money. They have created the action because they all think they can win. Now I know poker is much more luck based, I am not trying to start a discussion about poker vs pool. I am trying to illustrate the power and necessity of getting the money into these events. Sponsors and promoters cant keep adding money, and players will never survive if payouts don't increase. If you can't afford the entry, find a sponsor or someone who believes in you enough to post the money on your behalf. Once you start winning big tournament money, and all the events pay big money, the top players will have more money...
My plan for this...
This is a good way to promote pool so everyone can play and have fun. I am going to run one tourney a week for 16 players at a $40 buy-in. The winner gets a $400.00 buy-in. At the end of 16 weeks I have 16 players with $400.00 each in the playoff to see who advances to Valley Forge. Repeat two more sessions and wala, I have three players going. 16 week sessions, one week play-off times 3 is 51 weeks. I pay the room the greens fees and whatever is left, I put back into pool. Sounds like a plan to me. I am sure Mr. Hopkins and Allen Jr. with mentor me to make sure I am crossing all the T's and dotting all the I's. Pool is promoted. We all win, in my view.
allen_jr said:Thanks for pointing all of this out. This is precisely what we are trying to achieve. Although we would prefer that people don't have a bare-knuckle fight for the entry fee
Let me give a scenario:
Suppose you are the best player in your local poolroom. Lets say you are a solid 6 in the APA. You are not a world champion, or even state champion, but in the small bar/poolroom you hang out in, you are the best. Not unbeatable, but a small favorite against everyone. You could persuade the owner/manager to organize some mini-satellites there. Get the room owner to host 8-man $25 tournaments a couple nights a week. These could be handicapped, your choice. You figure to be a favorite. Make it known that eventually there will be a $200 tournament that people can win their way into... this can be handicapped also, doesnt matter. The eventual winner of that tournament will now be playing in the $5000 buy in event. Now, you can repeat the whole process and then 2 players can be in the main event...
So now, come August, you show up in Valley Forge and you find out that 150 other poolrooms around this huge country did the same thing. Unfortunately, 25 of the World's best poolplayers have posted $5000 to play in this event. Even worse, another 25 of some of the most talented, completely unknown road player have gotten their backers to sponsor them for the entry (all handled by Allen Hopkins Productions, so there is no worry for the sponsors about getting paid or players running off)...
So now, here you are. You have just made it into the 3rd annual $1,000,000 9 Ball Shootout. You have paid $25 to play in this event. So have another 149 of the total 225 players in this event. There is a staggering $1,125,000 in prize money. You are guaranteed $1000 just for showing up....
So now, of course there is a draw. Lucky for you, you won't face a World Class player or solid unknown player until at least the third round. By this point, you are guaranteed $10,000.
So yes, most of you are right, the average player may not have a chance to win this. However, they can have a great time and make good money. This is the plan. The satellites are not expensive. The minis are even cheaper. Yes, this event does require a lot of involvement at the local level. No, we cannot be everywhere and make these local events happen. But what we can do is organize an event, show people how it can work, and do our best to promote it. The word will get out, and people will see how great this can be! Yes, it will take time, but it can happen.
If you don't think this model can work, just stroll on over to the Rio and watch the World Series of Poker for about 10 minutes. How many of those 1000's of players posted $10,000 to get in? Yes, poker is different, but money is money. We all want it, we're just trying to create a system to get it. There is NO ADDED MONEY in poker tournaments. Sponsors ARE NOT ADDING MONEY to the prize pool, its quite the opposite, the house is taking a nice cut OUT of the players pockets, and no one says a word. AND, only 10 percent of the entrants will get any cash.
If you read all this, thanks... feel free to discuss. Oh yeah, please check out the "Tournament Announcement" section of the site, because we keep adding satellite events...
This is a good way to promote pool so everyone can play and have fun. I am going to run one tourney a week for 16 players at a $40 buy-in. The winner gets a $400.00 buy-in. At the end of 16 weeks I have 16 players with $400.00 each in the playoff to see who advances to Valley Forge. Repeat two more sessions and wala, I have three players going. 16 week sessions, one week play-off times 3 is 51 weeks. I pay the room the greens fees and whatever is left, I put back into pool. Sounds like a plan to me. I am sure Mr. Hopkins and Allen Jr. with mentor me to make sure I am crossing all the T's and dotting all the I's. Pool is promoted. We all win, in my view.
