Backers....stories?

Colin Colenso

Colin Colenso

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We read some stories here about backers from time to time.

Now I haven't done the kind of road hustling that seems to go on in the US, but in my experience I've never come across any impressive, successful long time backers.

I've backed a few friends from time to time and did ok out of it, never got hussled. When I played for $, I almost always paid my own way.

I've met a bunch of guys, usually drunk who have seem me or my mates played and propisitioned me/them to be their backer on a tour around the country. But it's usually just pipe dream / beer talk stuff from guys who think the movies are real.

I know one guy who met a player in Thailand and flew him to Australia to match up, and the guy got about 4 money games for mediocre amounts and lost the larger amount games to the better of the locals.....so much for that backer's dream of riches.

Anyway, my guess is that most backers are gullible wanabees, that get a sniff of the pool hustler's atmosphere and want to be the cool pimp behind the action. Most back donkeys or get hustled and soon enough give up.

Are any successful...long term?

Just hope this brings out some good backer stories.
 
Colin Colenso said:
We read some stories here about backers from time to time.

Now I haven't done the kind of road hustling that seems to go on in the US, but in my experience I've never come across any impressive, successful long time backers.

I've backed a few friends from time to time and did ok out of it, never got hussled. When I played for $, I almost always paid my own way.

I've met a bunch of guys, usually drunk who have seem me or my mates played and propisitioned me/them to be their backer on a tour around the country. But it's usually just pipe dream / beer talk stuff from guys who think the movies are real.

I know one guy who met a player in Thailand and flew him to Australia to match up, and the guy got about 4 money games for mediocre amounts and lost the larger amount games to the better of the locals.....so much for that backer's dream of riches.

Anyway, my guess is that most backers are gullible wanabees, that get a sniff of the pool hustler's atmosphere and want to be the cool pimp behind the action. Most back donkeys or get hustled and soon enough give up.

Are any successful...long term?

Just hope this brings out some good backer stories.
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I doubt there are many long term successes. Many of these guys have 'funny money' and just like the action.

It's hard to overcome 2-1 for very long which i think is the majority of the deals- Backer takes all losses, splits winnings
 
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I have staked a few players over the years, but not often. Have a profit to show for it, but not a large one.

Being a stakehorse puts you in some unusual sitautions:

1) After a set or two, your horse thinks he should play another set, but you don't. He likes his action, you don't.

2) Your horse wants to raise the bet, but you don't.

3) There was this time when my horse arranged a game for the next day, but the friend with whom he was traveling had to leave town, and left with my horse's cuestick in his car.

4) Your horse's opponent doesn't even show up for the match-up.

5) You think the money should be posted, your horse thinks the opponent is good for it and shouldn't have to.

Lucky to be able to say I've never had a problem with getting paid, but some of these situations are very aggravating.
 
Nostroke said:
It's hard to overcome 2-1 for very long which i think is the majority of the deals- Backer takes all losses, splits winnings
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Vegas only wishes they could get people to accept those odds.
 
Nostroke said:
I doubt there are many long term successses. Many of these guys have 'funny money' and just like the action.

It's hard to overcome 2-1 for very long which i think is the majority of the deals- Backer takes all losses, splits winnings
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That's what I figured, and why stereotypical characters such as the one in Pool Hall Junkies just don't ring true with me.

There are some good players who can never hold onto their money, due to gambling, drinking, drugs or whatever who usually call out for backers to fund them. But any decent player of reasonable sensibilities will back themselves.

Another situation is old friendships, where players let a friend in for some of the action. Sometimes because not risking the full amount reduces the pressure slightly, sometimes because some players play better with friends behind them supporting them and other times just out of a sense of charity....or could it be social peer pressure?
 
Colin Colenso said:
We read some stories here about backers from time to time.

Now I haven't done the kind of road hustling that seems to go on in the US, but in my experience I've never come across any impressive, successful long time backers.

I've backed a few friends from time to time and did ok out of it, never got hussled. When I played for $, I almost always paid my own way.

I've met a bunch of guys, usually drunk who have seem me or my mates played and propisitioned me/them to be their backer on a tour around the country. But it's usually just pipe dream / beer talk stuff from guys who think the movies are real.

I know one guy who met a player in Thailand and flew him to Australia to match up, and the guy got about 4 money games for mediocre amounts and lost the larger amount games to the better of the locals.....so much for that backer's dream of riches.

Anyway, my guess is that most backers are gullible wanabees, that get a sniff of the pool hustler's atmosphere and want to be the cool pimp behind the action. Most back donkeys or get hustled and soon enough give up.

Are any successful...long term?

Just hope this brings out some good backer stories.
Click to expand...


Backers are rarely in it for the money they like being around players and it is a way of being one of the guys. I never really understood a players desire for a backer. If you manage yourself and your money right, you are better off on your own. When you go on the road you really don't need a backer, the whole reason for going on the road is for a change no one knows how you play and you can move better and you figure to most always be winning if you can play at all. You are rarely really gambling so why be giving up part of the action. If you want to just gamble you can stay home and make games.
 
sjm said:
I have staked a few players over the years, but not often. Have a profit to show for it, but not a large one.

Being a stakehorse puts you in some unusual sitautions:

1) After a set or two, your horse thinks he should play another set, but you don't. He likes his action, you don't.

2) Your horse wants to raise the bet, but you don't.

3) There was this time when my horse arranged a game for the next day, but the friend with whom he was traveling had to leave town, and left with my horse's cuestick in his car.

4) Your horse's opponent doesn't even show up for the match-up.

5) You think the money should be posted, your horse thinks the opponent is good for it and shouldn't have to.

Lucky to be able to say I've never had a problem with getting paid, but some of these situations are very aggravating.
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Those examples ring some bells!

Most the matchups I saw never eventuated. The player was busy, outta cash, whatever. Most of the set ups were drunk talk. In fact, the most fun I had was listening in on the constant woofing between players challenging each other but almost never setting a final date or venue out of hidden fear that they may actually lose.

Most of the match ups eventuated at around 3am when both players were inebriated enough to lose their fears and respect for the value of their money that was supposed to pay next week's rent.

I used to back a good friend who often took a while to warm up. He nearly always won eventually, but he had to work his Stricklandesque magic to force the opposition into some mediocre play, and seeing this weakness he'd start to thrive and play like a genious. A couple of times I gave up on him and went home, and he'd brag the next day that he had won and how I should know he'd always win eventually. Maybe so I'd think, but I when it's 2am and I'm tired of waiting for a return, I'd rather cut my losses and get a good sleep...lol.
 
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macguy said:
Backers are rarely in it for the money they like being around players and it is a way of being one of the guys. I never really understood a players desire for a backer. If you manage yourself and your money right, you are better off on your own. When you go on the road you really don't need a backer, the whole reason for going on the road is for a change no one knows how you play and you can move better and you figure to most always be winning if you can play at all. You are rarely really gambling so why be giving up part of the action. If you want to just gamble you can stay home and make games.
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Depends on where you live!!
 
I used to back this total bust-out for very small action sets. He was probably the most miserable male i ever knew- not a single identiafiable positive quality-none!

The thing was when you backed this guy, it came with full rights to criticize, laugh, second guess and generally torture him while he was playing. He used to beg me to back him.

No one else would go near him and we would go through this argument where he would try to explain to me how he couldn't lose and i would remind him of his record and how he couldn't win but would eventually give in. He didnt care cause he had nothing to lose and was a total desperado. I usually had a partner for these $20-$30 sets too so that would just add to the fun.

I know statistically this may sound impossible but he won once out of well over 30 efforts. It was the first time i backed him. Once he lost the first set on the hill because " I stretched, I stretched- I should have used the bridge"! Maybe you guessed it, he lost the 2nd set on the nine ball on the hill because " I used that damn bridge", Damn that bridge" Of course someone yelled out- "You shoulda stretched"!

There was always a bad excuse. Once he said he would have easily beaten this guy if he (himself) hadnt 'missed so many ducks' We all agreed. Backing him and losing was well worth the money. Lots of fun nights at the pool hall.
 
Personally, the days of Real backers are few n far between. I really only know of one guy who will back a player. And thats cuz the person is REALLY GOOD, so there tends to be a payoff too.

But its funny i have seen kids who "back" other friends only to get burned cuz they lost lol. I seen one kid, lose 20$ on a set, and then is like ok, lets go for 60$ on this set. And seriously it was just some ball bangers. Well the guy who just lost 20$ is on the hill in a race to 7, and the other guy has 4 games.

Well of course the guy who is up is trying to play cautiously, but the other guy is just slopping the 9ball in. Well after he slops the 9ball in again to get on the hill, he snaps the 9ball in to win. And the look on the guy who just lost another 60$ and his friend who was stupid enough to back him was priceless lol.
 
We have several backers here, one is a friend of ours, a Philipino that has brought in Efren, Parica, Andam, and Luat to play Harry Platis. And Harry has backed players too. For smaller amounts, like up to $3000, there are a few others. Except for one that I can think of, they all play and gamble too, but not at a high level. In other words, they're the ones getting weight and back the ones that give it.
 
> For a really strong player that can't handle money,a dedicated,honest,and high-powered backer can be the influence that keeps them on the right road. The shady things that go on around this sport can make an inexperienced potential backer go nuts though. I've heard several stories about the guy that most often backs James Walden,who must be a great backer. He is said to trust James so completely,that he has backed him in large enough sets that you could buy a reasonably decent house with the same amount,and just sent the money via courier and didn't even bother to show up and watch,for two reasons. One,he has won betting on him enough to be almost certain that James will take it down,regardless of the opponent,and two,he trusts James enough to know it will all be counted accurately afterwards. Tommy D.
 
Colin Colenso said:
...A couple of times I gave up on him and went home, and he'd brag the next day that he had won and how I should know he'd always win eventually. Maybe so I'd think, but I when it's 2am and I'm tired of waiting for a return, I'd rather cut my losses and get a good sleep...lol.
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That is a miracle that he won, in your absence!!;)
 
Backers come in two different molds, (IMO).......

I had always had a distain for backers in general and had never had one. Like Colin said, if I knew I was going to win and always had the bankroll, why use a backer. I actually made quite a lot of big scores by going after the backers (as a salesman) and avoiding their players. Common sense told me they would lose more on themselves (because of ego), and they did.
As I see it, there are two very different kinds of backers.
There are the ones who are just looking for some recognition and notoriety because they can't get any playing themselves. All they have to offer is money and usually just want to control and demean the player. For years I (and many other players) had declared "Open Season" on these types of backers.
Lately though, I see and notice a different type of backer. They are really good gamblers who believe they know a player well enough to invest in the outcome. It really is a good partnership that can benefit both parties. Some of them are on a plus/minus basis and some are on a day-to-day basis. The ones that are on a game-to-game or set-to-set basis are just plain stupid.
I now know of a very good backer whom I can and will play my heart out for. He is also a good player who I have known for over 40 years. I don't NEED him and he certainly doesn’t NEED me. I have played for him/me 3 times and am 3 & O. Our agreement is that he bets whatever he wants as long as I agree but I still do the matching up and play when, where and how I want. Now that I don't depend on playing pool to pay my bills (Thank God), it is nice to have someone to ask if they are interested, not at all committed.
I really think what changed my mind about backers was Detroit. Most of the large scores there happened for players with Detroit backers. Pool players were making more money than they had ever seen in one night and were simply the tools of the backers to gamble with other Detroit gamblers. It was heaven on earth for the players and I don't think it will ever be equaled again.

TY & GL
 
Backers stories

Vernon Elliot has told me some of his many matchups during his playing days in Detroit and agrees with OHB that the amounts of money wagered was unimaginable. He has told me about playing many of the HOF players and also playing those who were strictly money players as was he. One story was when he happened to be at a private club and sitting on a bar stool watching a game of banks being played. At the time no one knew Vernon in Detroit. One of the backers player was getting beat and he asked Vernon if he knew how to play banks to which Vernon responded "a little". This was the first time the backer, Jerry Howard, known as The Syrian Prince, had ever seen Vernon. He told Vernon to get a stick and play the guy who was known as "Black Joe" and then told him the game was for $10k. Money was how he kept score but relatively unimportant. Braggin' rights for beating the other players "horse" was the important thing. Those of you who know Vernon ie, OHB and Freddy B. know that the large amount of money only motivated Vernon and he won as he usually did. During this particular matchup Vernon and Black Joe played even but in subsequent matches Vernon gave him 10-8. An insight to how well Black Joe played is that when he and Bugs played Bugs would give him 9-8 but would not play him at 10-8.
 
Jerry Howard was..............

Doug said:
Vernon Elliot has told me some of his many matchups during his playing days in Detroit and agrees with OHB that the amounts of money wagered was unimaginable. He has told me about playing many of the HOF players and also playing those who were strictly money players as was he. One story was when he happened to be at a private club and sitting on a bar stool watching a game of banks being played. At the time no one knew Vernon in Detroit. One of the backers player was getting beat and he asked Vernon if he knew how to play banks to which Vernon responded "a little". This was the first time the backer, Jerry Howard, known as The Syrian Prince, had ever seen Vernon. He told Vernon to get a stick and play the guy who was known as "Black Joe" and then told him the game was for $10k. Money was how he kept score but relatively unimportant. Braggin' rights for beating the other players "horse" was the important thing. Those of you who know Vernon ie, OHB and Freddy B. know that the large amount of money only motivated Vernon and he won as he usually did. During this particular matchup Vernon and Black Joe played even but in subsequent matches Vernon gave him 10-8. An insight to how well Black Joe played is that when he and Bugs played Bugs would give him 9-8 but would not play him at 10-8.
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Jerry Howard was one of the best bowling hustlers that ever lived. He made many scores from the top pros such as Ray Bluth and others. He avoided the tournaments and just beat them all gambling. This all was told to me by Cornbread Red who beat Jerry out of a lot of cash playing pool with some reduclious spots.

Ty & GL
 
OldHasBeen said:
As I see it, there are two very different kinds of backers.
There are the ones who are just looking for some recognition and notoriety because they can't get any playing themselves. All they have to offer is money and usually just want to control and demean the player. For years I (and many other players) had declared "Open Season" on these types of backers.

Lately though, I see and notice a different type of backer. They are really good gamblers who believe they know a player well enough to invest in the outcome. It really is a good partnership that can benefit both parties. Some of them are on a plus/minus basis and some are on a day-to-day basis. The ones that are on a game-to-game or set-to-set basis are just plain stupid.
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Well, let me introduce you to a third type of backer. Some of us stake our horses because, although we realize we probably have the worst of it in the long run, we can afford the stake many, many times over and just want to give a player or two with a modest income a chance to make some dough.

We're not stupid and we're not suckers, we're just benefactors of pool that have the financial means to give a player or two an extra chance to make a better income.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Anyway, my guess is that most backers are gullible wanabees, that get a sniff of the pool hustler's atmosphere and want to be the cool pimp behind the action. Most back donkeys or get hustled and soon enough give up.

Are any successful...long term?

Just hope this brings out some good backer stories.
Click to expand...

I would guess that Jack Cooney's backer Mark was very successful long term. I personally saw them take one guy down for about $70,000 over the course of a week and from what I have heard Cooney very, very rarely lost over a very long period of time. From what I have heard he is probably the best pool hustler that has ever lived.

Wayne
 
macguy said:
Backers are rarely in it for the money they like being around players and it is a way of being one of the guys. I never really understood a players desire for a backer. If you manage yourself and your money right, you are better off on your own. When you go on the road you really don't need a backer, the whole reason for going on the road is for a change no one knows how you play and you can move better and you figure to most always be winning if you can play at all. You are rarely really gambling so why be giving up part of the action. If you want to just gamble you can stay home and make games.
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Think both the Hustler, and Color of Money (the movies) showed how the Player/Backer Relationship Worked, or Did Not Work. IMO

Backers want a return on their investment, like most rational businessman IMO.
 
sjm said:
I have staked a few players over the years, but not often. Have a profit to show for it, but not a large one.

Being a stakehorse puts you in some unusual sitautions:

1) After a set or two, your horse thinks he should play another set, but you don't. He likes his action, you don't.

2) Your horse wants to raise the bet, but you don't.



Hi SJM,
Do u remember that little book titled `` Rich man in Babylon`? one of the five rules that were mentioned in that book was ``the man who has gold makes the rules``.That was your money and u set the rules and your horse has to follow.:cool:
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