Bad rolls - what's your definition?

[JB Cases]

One of the players on my 8 Ball team (BCA league) and I were talking about bad rolls last night. His contention is that he gets more than his share of bad rolls and it's very frustrating to him.

I started thinking about this and wondered what constitutes a bad roll?

For example, I can understand that equipment can cause a bad roll; I've had a ball that I slow rolled, roll off line. I can understand that random occurrences can cause bad rolls; I break and squat the rock in the middle of the table and a ball kisses it into a pocket for a scratch. Those are both bad rolls and we all get our share of them.

My teammate's contention is that sending a ball 3 rails for position and having it end up behind his opponent's only ball is a bad roll. Or that having a ball roll too far and scratching is a bad roll.

I contend that those are bad shots, that you're supposed to keep control of as many of those things as you can; that's the art and science of this game, minimizing your mistakes or chances for mistakes at all times. Perhaps if he gets more than his share, or perceives that he gets more than his share, he's taking the wrong pattern for his runout and not controlling the opportunities for error as a result.

I'm not looking to decide who's right and who's wrong on this, by the way. We all have different ways of looking at a rack and running it differently based on what kinds of shots we prefer.

I'd like to know how everyone else characterizes a bad roll. And are there good rolls, too? And what constitutes those?

Brian in VA - believes he gets his share of both and is okay with that.

I halfway agree with you. Sometimes when you have to pull off something really tricky and you do and the ball just falls out of line or gets hooked then I consider it a bad roll.

But mainly I consider a bad roll to be when something unexpected happens that's just unlucky and not something that I did to myself.

A good roll is when something fortunate happens to you that's unexpected. One person's bad roll is often a good roll for the opponent.

 

[Scott Lee]

Rotarded...Agreed!...and the better your process, the more trust you will have in your stroke...which translates to having more control over what happens at the table...when it's YOUR turn (you can't do anything about controlling what the other guy does, when he/she is at the table!).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I do believe in life you can put yourself in position to be lucky, or unlucky, but you will always have some degree of control over your destiny in anything.

 

[Scott Lee]

Brian...and it starts with the pocket ALWAYS being much larger than just one ball! Shoot the right speed (for the shot), shoot for the center of the pocket, and you'll rarely miss, or jaw the ball! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

That's just another reason why I love this game - plenty of gray areas. It's not always black and white, is it?

I wish you all good rolls!

Brian in VA

 

[$TAKE HOR$E]

There are only 2 true bad rolls. One happen's on the break when the cue ball is kissed in a pocket or you are left with a terrible shot because of the cue ball being hit by other balls and the other is because of faulty equipment. Everything else is human error.

 

[12310bch]

rolls

A good roll is any roll which enhances my chance of winning. A bad roll is any roll that decreases my chance of winning. I take no responsibility for what happens on the table after the CB leaves contact with the tip of my stick.:grin:

 

[Paul Mon]

???

There are only 2 true bad rolls. One happen's on the break when the cue ball is kissed in a pocket or you are left with a terrible shot because of the cue ball being hit by other balls and the other is because of faulty equipment. Everything else is human error.

Respectfully, reread mine above (#38) and explain how these are human error.

regards........Paul

 

[n33njah]

Bad rolls Don't exist

I dont believe in good rolls and bad rolls. Granted there are things that I can and Can not control. I look at the bad vs good as preparation and determination overcoming luck.


Though IMO if you want to define a good roll it would be something along the lines of ' Hitting the ball in the worst possible way to play your next positional shot, and getting the most amazing position in the world against all odds.'


Bad roll defintion "Playing the smarter shot, and ending up in bad position, hooked, or just in general playing the greater percentage, but ending up on the lesser side."


Like a couple of poster's had stated. Anything other than a few shots aren't contributed to roll [ granted I do play on some shit ass tables where this isnt true.] but as far as My opponent getting a roll in a particular situation, He didn't. He got lucky and he may or may not get out. But I'm determined to play the higher percentage shots, Prepared to safety battle til i bleed from the ears. If those don't work I lose. No need to blame my inability to beat someone on anything other than the fact that I did not[/B] show up and perform at my best.


Excuses can be made, but the truth can't be hidden from you. every player knows when they play a dumb shot, and get away with it. They also know everytime they play a dumb shot and don't get away with it.

My .02 cents.

 

[TATE]

A bad roll defined...

Some days you just can't get a good roll if your life depends on it - literally.

 

[rattleryan9]

very well said, but it is amazing how it seems you get the good rolls when you are playing good and the bad one when you are playing well. I also agree most bad rolls are your own fault but not ALL.

Sometimes its the table. Some rails are too high and when there is no heater on the damn rails are frozen. lol

 

[ironman]

One of the players on my 8 Ball team (BCA league) and I were talking about bad rolls last night. His contention is that he gets more than his share of bad rolls and it's very frustrating to him.

I started thinking about this and wondered what constitutes a bad roll?

For example, I can understand that equipment can cause a bad roll; I've had a ball that I slow rolled, roll off line. I can understand that random occurrences can cause bad rolls; I break and squat the rock in the middle of the table and a ball kisses it into a pocket for a scratch. Those are both bad rolls and we all get our share of them.

My teammate's contention is that sending a ball 3 rails for position and having it end up behind his opponent's only ball is a bad roll. Or that having a ball roll too far and scratching is a bad roll.

I contend that those are bad shots, that you're supposed to keep control of as many of those things as you can; that's the art and science of this game, minimizing your mistakes or chances for mistakes at all times. Perhaps if he gets more than his share, or perceives that he gets more than his share, he's taking the wrong pattern for his runout and not controlling the opportunities for error as a result.

I'm not looking to decide who's right and who's wrong on this, by the way. We all have different ways of looking at a rack and running it differently based on what kinds of shots we prefer.

I'd like to know how everyone else characterizes a bad roll. And are there good rolls, too? And what constitutes those?

Brian in VA - believes he gets his share of both and is okay with that.

i believe bad rolls are a huge excuse. Most look at it as a bad roll instead of a bad shot shot or bad decision!

 

[pt109]

@$#&* luck

The break is the only shot that I can accept that I might have gotten a bad roll on. Often even bad results of a break aren't a bad roll but if I break and park the cue ball or pull it back to the head rail and it still gets knocked around and scratches I have to admit that nobody is good enough to control the path of every ball in the rack every time.

After that, any roll I get from my shot be it equipment enhanced or not is my doing. I can say that my opponent misses and I get a bad roll sometimes but I also acknowledge that his particular playing style might be one that lends itself to a lot of out of control rolls, good or bad, so the bad leaves for me are very much a part of his game and have to be factored in when playing him.

The vast majority of the time bad rolls don't exist for me even on the break. As others have already mentioned, accepting that bad rolls exist releases responsibility from yourself. I prefer to take responsibility for everything that happens at the table during my inning.

Hu

I like this one.
2 more thoughts
Ben Hogan said"'The more i practice,the luckier i get."
'Fortune favors the brave'

 

[SpiderWebComm]

This is easy - The good players get the good rolls and the bad players get the bad rolls.
And this is not all meant in jest either. There's a reason why it works that way. But that is another discussion entirely.

Jay has such a way of saying things. I was gonna say there's no such thing as good rolls/bad rolls. Players make their own rolls. If you tend to get a ton of bad rolls, focus on being more accurate with the CB.

 

[12squared]

A quick story relating to good/bad rolls.

I was playing a friend for small money, the whole game he was complaining about the lucky rolls I was getting, which many of them were bad shots on his part that was leaving me shots. I kept quite. After several more games of his whining I couldn't take it anymore. I started pointing out every single "good roll" he would get whether it position, hooking me by mistake, how balls ended up on the break, etc. (I didn't want him to feel left out of the "Good roll" catagory). Of course this was done after every single good roll he got, even during his run.

We didn't speak for 3 months. But I think I made my point. He was getting many more "Good Rolls" than me I just never brought them to his attention...until I blew up :smile:.

Moral of the story, just play the game and don't sweat the rolls, there are many more ways to get a roll then getting lucky to make a shot. Balls are round-anything is liable to happen.

Dave