Balance point

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
i believe i have read that a back weighted cue helps your cue stay on line
anyones thoughts on this?
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
If you grip the cue at the very butt end and aim and play with the cue at or near your chin, wouldn't you want the weight to be in the back of the cue ? Most Phillipines I've watched over the years grip the very back end of the cues... Guy
Plenty of short Filipinos out there. Those guys def have their hand on the wrap.
PJ explains the benefits of back weighted cues very well.
More weight farther back = more inertial resistance to sideways movement.

Maybe why Earl likes his cue extended? Does he still?

pj
chgo
Yes he does. Earl's cue is up to his eyeballs when standing. Besides the physics of it, for any player actually swinging the cue (and I've been on record saying Earl plays with the purest arm swing there could be when he lets his stroke out) the weight behind the grip hand, or maybe the grip hand being a little closer to the balance point than a standard length cue would allow for a taller player, makes that type of stroke feel even more effortless than it already is. It allows for the epitome of 'let the cue do the work'.
 
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7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
58" cue
BP from butt end = 18 3/4"
BP from tip end = 39 1/4"
weight: 20.4 oz

+ 4" mid cue extension (=62" length)
BP from butt end = 20 3/8"
BP from tip end = 41 5/8"
weight: 21.6 oz

+ 8" rear extension (=70" length) my preferred configuration
BP from butt end = 23 3/4"
BP from tip end = 46 1/4"
weight: 24.85 oz
 
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Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The balance point affects the weight distribution on the bridge and in the shooting hand.

I don't hold the cue at the very butt, even though I am 6'3". I like a forward heavy cue so I have more feel on the bridge. My current cue is under 16.5oz, and very forward balanced.
The balance point is less important than your grip hand placement.
I realize it might change based on the cue ball position but if you look
at my CL wraps, you can see & also feel where I mostly hold the butt.

Repositioning your grip hand affects the way the cue balance feels
and a 20 oz. cue can feel like 18 oz by moving your grip hand up on
the butt. The cue maker builds the cue’s fulcrum point and your grip
position affects how it feels. A couple of inches changes it quite a bit.
 

DeeDeeCues

Well-known member
The balance point is less important than your grip hand placement.
I realize it might change based on the cue ball position but if you look
at my CL wraps, you can see & also feel where I mostly hold the butt.

Repositioning your grip hand affects the way the cue balance feels
and a 20 oz. cue can feel like 18 oz by moving your grip hand up on
the butt. The cue maker builds the cue’s fulcrum point and your grip
position affects how it feels. A couple of inches changes it quite a bit.

Please don't quote me if you want to explain high school level physics. I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest that they should move their grip hand to change the perceived weight of a cue. That is little-league baseball where you 'choke-up' instead of buying a bat that works for you.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Please don't quote me if you want to explain high school level physics. I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest that they should move their grip hand to change the perceived weight of a cue. That is little-league baseball where you 'choke-up' instead of buying a bat that works for you.
I didn’t say where you should place your hand on the cue butt, nor did I imply there was any magical sweet spot in regard to the cue’s balance point. And there are many reasons why a cue’s balance point may be what it is ranging from the weight of the shafts to heavy weight bolts. All I observed is that a slight adjustment in your hand position changes the way the cue feels and very likely the way it plays for the player when they rely on the feel of their stroke in deciding what velocity to use. So I’ll just ignore you in the future and if you responded in kind, I would appreciate it. That seems like a suitable solution, IMO.
 

Guy Manges

Registered
Plenty of short Filipinos out there. Those guys def have their hand on the wrap.
PJ explains the benefits of back weighted cues very well.

Yes he does. Earl's cue is up to his eyeballs when standing. Besides the physics of it, for any player actually swinging the cue (and I've been on record saying Earl plays with the purest arm swing there could be when he lets his stroke out) the weight behind the grip hand, or maybe the grip hand being a little closer to the balance point than a standard length cue would allow for a taller player, makes that type of stroke feel even more effortless than it already is. It allows for the epitome of 'let the cue do the work'.
I wonder if that equates to Earl's platform shoes... Guy
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i believe i have read that a back weighted cue helps your cue stay on line
anyones thoughts on this?

to me this seems variable, if not counterintuitive
so many cues come rear-weighted as a stock dimension
very few of them feel secure in my bridge..their shafts move around
obviously where I'm holding the cue, etc. has an effect
but I don't think my technique is too unusual

I could kind of see where "throwing" it would help a rear-weighted cue move forward in a straight line
but in my experience, I don't get it.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
to me this seems variable, if not counterintuitive
so many cues come rear-weighted as a stock dimension
very few of them feel secure in my bridge..their shafts move around
obviously where I'm holding the cue, etc. has an effect
but I don't think my technique is too unusual

I could kind of see where "throwing" it would help a rear-weighted cue move forward in a straight line
but in my experience, I don't get it.
It's much easier to throw or slip the opposite.
Rear balanced cues are for death grippers.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
makes more sense to me..at least some weight has to be in front of the grip hand
I'm holding a baby bird over here, but am open to learning about other styles
thanks for your pennies, joey
Efren is a darter.
He darted that cheap $15 cue in his best days.
It was a freaking forward balanced 60"+ 21+ oz'r.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
The opposite is true imo.
PJ laid out the physics of why back-weighted will tend to resist moving off line more due to increased inertia.
I could kind of see where "throwing" it would help a rear-weighted cue move forward in a straight line
but in my experience, I don't get it.
Many teachers actually teach the stroke as a throw. This is def a type of stroking technique. Also, any technique with a vertical component to it like the pros you see with the cue moving up and down a lot more than they need to for a linear delivery will tend to favor a back-weighted cue.
Efren is a darter.
He darted that cheap $15 cue in his best days.
It was a freaking forward balanced 60"+ 21+ oz'r.
That's really interesting that Efren would have a forward weighted cue. Where'd you come across that info? I would have expected the opposite based on conversations with players that play that type of stroke (mine included). Mentioned it above but will repeat for convenience, when my friend visited the Philippines last year, the vast majority of players played heavier, back-weighted cues.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
PJ laid out the physics of why back-weighted will tend to resist moving off line more due to increased inertia.

Many teachers actually teach the stroke as a throw. This is def a type of stroking technique. Also, any technique with a vertical component to it like the pros you see with the cue moving up and down a lot more than they need to for a linear delivery will tend to favor a back-weighted cue.

That's really interesting that Efren would have a forward weighted cue. Where'd you come across that info? I would have expected the opposite based on conversations with players that play that type of stroke (mine included). Mentioned it above but will repeat for convenience, when my friend visited the Philippines last year, the vast majority of players played heavier, back-weighted cues.
Where?
I played with his Jessie cue in Riverside, CA.
It had a heavy ss collar.

Vast majority of the Filipino players now don't dart the cue. Aranas and Chua are the only two notable players who consistently slip the cue.
Most are elbow droppers.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
More weight farther back = more inertial resistance to sideways movement.

Maybe why Earl likes his cue extended? Does he still?

pj
chgo
Not really imo
If you have a soft hold at near the end of the wrap and that heavy added bolt is behind your grip, it doesn't help.

Let's not even include Earl in this discussion.
He drove Babyface nuts.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
It's much easier to throw or slip the opposite.
Rear balanced cues are for death grippers.

One of those things that I don't think matters a whole lot when the balance point is between our hands. I'm not a fan at all of a balance point that can get behind the rear hand.

I will leave the back weighted cue theory to those that like theories. When I designed race cars I got as much weight as I could inside the four tires and as close to center as possible with a little left weight bias. Not relevant here but I also located the fuel tank so the weight shifted to be an advantage as the tires lost bite and the fuel load got lighter.

My gut and comfortable playing cues both tell me to get the weight between my hands. I have never liked a rear weighted cue. I suspect that this works for people that grip well back towards the butt cap so the weight is still between the hands. I do that sometimes but see it as a flaw to correct.

Hu
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
Where?
I played with his Jessie cue in Riverside, CA.
It had a heavy ss collar.

Vast majority of the Filipino players now don't dart the cue. Aranas and Chua are the only two notable players who consistently slip the cue.
Most are elbow droppers.
Pretty sweet you got to actually touch the magician's wand.

What do you mean by 'darter'? I don't see much similarity between Chua and Aranas' techniques and Efren's.
One of those things that I don't think matters a whole lot when the balance point is between our hands. I'm not a fan at all of a balance point that can get behind the rear hand.
A balance point behind rear hand is pretty much impossible lol. It would literally fall backwards and you would struggle to keep shaft on your bridge hand.

I'd say my cue is very back-weighted with a balance point about 15" from the butt, which still gives me over a foot of cue to grab and stay behind it. And I play a very loose grip too so the back weighted cues are for death grippers comment is pretty off base. (Not by you Hu, someone else above)

People will have their preferences for how they want the cue to feel. For me, back-weighted cues have a feel of 'shooting themselves' and are ideal for any technique that aims to let the cue do the work.
 
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