Bank shots...

[Kickin' Chicken]

I guess nothing huh???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glF7eSQE8hM&t=72m30s


Look John, I don't mean any offense but what you're saying here doesn't really mean much, for a champion to come on and say, hey all you have to do is just do it, hit it right, put the ball in the hole, doesn't really help the majority of non champions out there.

That's the same as a champion feel based player (like John Schmidt) saying that no aiming systems work, oh yeah that's right, he recently recanted that.

Sure, it is possible to become a champion just by hitting balls forever... IF you are capable of doing so JUST from hitting balls, but not everyone is capable of reaching their own top notch playing ability by just hitting balls, and it does those people a disservice when a champion comes on and says just put em in the pocket...

Jaden

p.s. the logic also fails there to.

I did it just by feel, so you can too...

It's a much better statement for someone who had difficulty doing it by feel and then found a system that helped him. I can't make that claim. I was a good player before I ever started using any systems...but I can tell you, my kicking DID get more accurate when I figured out the contact point and started using that as a baseline...

I had a much different take on what JB wrote.

though he didn't elaborate, it appears that he figures there's a difference between aiming systems and the method he (and others) use for banking balls in.

that's how I read it.

best,
brian kc



best,
brian kc

 

[Jaden]

I make kicks like that all the time... it wasn't luck...

I don't believe you hit where you aimed and the original aim line you measured was to acute of an angle. And also I believe you think some system will automatically cause to to make banks/ kicks. What John is saying I believe is that it won't snap in like you think. One must practice a ton to see these things. Almost all top players are feel players. All the pinoys and Europeans are. They play a ton of pool. Then you add in table conditions and what ever else. I don't believe your videos proves anything and the fact you made it and didn't scratch is just lucky. Point is feeling shots well is a result of playing a lot. Playing a lot will make you better with the right state of mind.

I make those kicks ALL the time, ask Beau, ask Oscar... ask anyone who's seen me play on a regular basis...

Jaden

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=362538

Above is the first thread I described what I do in and two posts down you can see JB (John Barton, not John Brumback) saying that he saw it and that it works...That's because I showed it to him in person and demonstrated it on the blue label diamond nine footer at Jamaica Joe's in OKC...

 

[Cornerman]

I keep missing my banks today.

 

[Jaden]

Fred...

I keep missing my banks today.

You must be using running English on them, try backspin....:thumbup:

Jaden

 

[jalapus logan]

I guess nothing huh???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glF7eSQE8hM&t=72m30s


Look John, I don't mean any offense but what you're saying here doesn't really mean much, for a champion to come on and say, hey all you have to do is just do it, hit it right, put the ball in the hole, doesn't really help the majority of non champions out there.

I think that what JB is driving at with this comment is that a player needs to understand the mentality and approach to reliable banking before putting an emphasis on any aiming system - call it a banking philosophy if you will. For instance, cutting the bank off of the rail to straighten out the shot as it approaches the pocket, as opposed to just angle in/angle out, which is not the best approach for many bank shots. In fact, if players limit themselves to angle in=angle out, then they will never execute banks at a high level and will not understand the full spectrum of available banks, nor will they likely select the correct approach to, say, a straight back at an angle and speed required in order to make the pocket play "larger".

Pool requires an understanding of geometry as its relationship with practical, actual world physics in order to understand (really feel) how a ball/shot will react. To that end, I personally believe that the best and only way to really "get there" as a player is to HAMB. Sorry, but shortcuts may get you to the neighborhood, but will not get you to the house. Not speaking for JB, obviously, but is all IMHO.

 

[Jaden]

I absolutely agree with that...

I think that what JB is driving at with this comment is that a player needs to understand the mentality and approach to reliable banking before putting an emphasis on any aiming system - call it a banking philosophy if you will. For instance, cutting the bank off of the rail to straighten out the shot as it approaches the pocket, as opposed to just angle in/angle out, which is not the best approach for many bank shots. In fact, if players limit themselves to angle in=angle out, then they will never execute banks at a high level and will not understand the full spectrum of available banks, nor will they likely select the correct approach to, say, a straight back at an angle and speed required in order to make the pocket play "larger".

Pool requires an understanding of geometry as its relationship with practical, actual world physics in order to understand (really feel) how a ball/shot will react. To that end, I personally believe that the best and only way to really "get there" as a player is to HAMB. Sorry, but shortcuts may get you to the neighborhood, but will not get you to the house. Not speaking for JB, obviously, but is all IMHO.

I absolutely agree with that and if that's what he was saying I agree.

This was just an illustration showing the problem most people make with using angle in/angle out.

It's a starting point for teaching yourself banks and kicks and a reference point for the experience you will develop as you get into more advanced banking and kicking.

I will readily admit that I was known for and good at kicking long before I ever figured this out. I could just see the angles, but that didn't stop me from occasionally missing by a mile on some rail first kick shots too.

Once you understand the somewhat counterintuitiveness of correct angle in/angle out, you can avoid making those mistakes...

I am far from claiming that this is a comprehensive bank and kick "system"

This is an illustration of an idea of that can help many people understand a concept about banking and kicking that many are not aware of...

Just like transfered spin or running english...

Jaden

 

[jalapus logan]

I absolutely agree with that and if that's what he was saying I agree.

This was just an illustration showing the problem most people make with using angle in/angle out.

It's a starting point for teaching yourself banks and kicks and a reference point for the experience you will develop as you get into more advanced banking and kicking.

I will readily admit that I was known for and good at kicking long before I ever figured this out. I could just see the angles, but that didn't stop me from occasionally missing by a mile on some rail first kick shots too.

Once you understand the somewhat counterintuitiveness of correct angle in/angle out, you can avoid making those mistakes...

I am far from claiming that this is a comprehensive bank and kick "system"

This is an illustration of an idea of that can help many people understand a concept about banking and kicking that many are not aware of...

Just like transfered spin or running english...

Jaden

Just a note on reference points - mine is the broad side of a barn...

Oh yeah, happy Friday AZB/Webbernet-land!

 

[John Brumback]

I think that what JB is driving at with this comment is that a player needs to understand the mentality and approach to reliable banking before putting an emphasis on any aiming system - call it a banking philosophy if you will. For instance, cutting the bank off of the rail to straighten out the shot as it approaches the pocket, as opposed to just angle in/angle out, which is not the best approach for many bank shots. In fact, if players limit themselves to angle in=angle out, then they will never execute banks at a high level and will not understand the full spectrum of available banks, nor will they likely select the correct approach to, say, a straight back at an angle and speed required in order to make the pocket play "larger".

Pool requires an understanding of geometry as its relationship with practical, actual world physics in order to understand (really feel) how a ball/shot will react. To that end, I personally believe that the best and only way to really "get there" as a player is to HAMB. Sorry, but shortcuts may get you to the neighborhood, but will not get you to the house. Not speaking for JB, obviously, but is all IMHO.

This is exactly what JB is driving at!! Thanks,I hate to have to type that much:thumbup: JB

 

[John Brumback]

I added a few more words to my post. John B.

 

[JoeyA]

DUDE! Did you put on some weight since we met in New Orleans?

JoeyA

BTW, nice shooting against a very top player.

I guess nothing huh???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glF7eSQE8hM&t=72m30s


Look John, I don't mean any offense but what you're saying here doesn't really mean much, for a champion to come on and say, hey all you have to do is just do it, hit it right, put the ball in the hole, doesn't really help the majority of non champions out there.

That's the same as a champion feel based player (like John Schmidt) saying that no aiming systems work, oh yeah that's right, he recently recanted that.

Sure, it is possible to become a champion just by hitting balls forever... IF you are capable of doing so JUST from hitting balls, but not everyone is capable of reaching their own top notch playing ability by just hitting balls, and it does those people a disservice when a champion comes on and says just put em in the pocket...

Jaden

p.s. the logic also fails there to.

I did it just by feel, so you can too...

It's a much better statement for someone who had difficulty doing it by feel and then found a system that helped him. I can't make that claim. I was a good player before I ever started using any systems...but I can tell you, my kicking DID get more accurate when I figured out the contact point and started using that as a baseline...

 

[Jaden]

Yeah but I've lost some since then too...

DUDE! Did you put on some weight since we met in New Orleans?

JoeyA

BTW, nice shooting against a very top player.

After my knee surgery in late 09 I put on some weight, then I lost some, then I put some back on after I tore my achilles tendon last year, and now I'm back down to about 200. I think I was 190 last time we met.

I've also gained some muscle since we last met up...

I had thought it healed and then a couple of weeks ago I started jumping rope and it got injured again (my achilles) I just went to the podiatrist this morning and they figured out that I have a bone spur and a protrusion at the top of the heal that they'll have to go in and shave down...

They're waiting three weeks for the inflamation of the achilles to go down before they schedule the surgery...

Jaden

 

[TheBook]

As always John is honest and to the point. Champions don't rely on crutches, they rely on experience based on good solid practice.

Problem is many champions promote and sell DVD showing crutches, gimmicks, and etc as a means to supplement their income.

 

[GoldCrown]

If you want to become a better banker,start thinking about the method to hit the "bank shot" instead of worrying about some system about how to aim the bank shot.
If you know the best method for the bank shot at hand,you will not have to AIM so precise anyway..
Champions use methods..suckers use.........you can fill in the blanks. John B.

I ordered the Bank Pool DVD thinking it was about banking instruction. Did not realize it is about the game Bank Pool. I guess I have to order the Bank Shots DVD......and move on to bank pool afterward

 

[John Brumback]

I ordered the Bank Pool DVD thinking it was about banking instruction. Did not realize it is about the game Bank Pool. I guess I have to order the Bank Shots DVD......and move on to bank pool afterward

I don't think it could hurt ya but yes you would probably be better served to watch the first one first. "bank Secrets"

To ease your pain I will knock 10$ off the next one. Thanks John B.

 

[Worminator]

John is saying... you need to know the correct "method" of shooting the bank at hand. Do you need firm, med, or soft speed... does it need a touch of right, center-high, low-right, etc. Matching the correct speed to the bank is extremely important.

 

[GoldCrown]

I don't think it could hurt ya but yes you would probably be better served to watch the first one first. "bank Secrets"

To ease your pain I will knock 10$ off the next one. Thanks John B.

ok thank you.....YOU are a gentleman. So am I ( I tend to use a room says Gentlemen). Your PM box is full. I'd like to order the DVD.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

It's real simple.

Good bankers bend the ball and make the pocket "bigger"
Bad bankers don't know how.

Spaeth taught me that a long time ago after demolishing me on the table.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

That's the same as a champion feel based player (like John Schmidt) saying that no aiming systems work, oh yeah that's right, he recently recanted that.

Didn't he recant it, not based on his own experience, but the experience of his friend and trusting his friends word?

I get what you are saying, but it would be totally different if he recanted it because of HIS experience.
Just saying

 

[billiardthought]

Good bankers bend the ball and make the pocket "bigger"

Can anyone please elaborate on this? I consider myself an average banker and would like to hear this in more depth.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Can anyone please elaborate on this? I consider myself an average banker and would like to hear this in more depth.

The way you hit the ball, manipulates it's path off the rail, so that it curves and approaches the pocket from a slightly different angle.

So imagine shooting a cueball directly into the side pocket from frozen to the bottom rail, vs shooting it into the same side pocket from the exact middle of the table.

One of those 2 shots is going to be easier because you have a much bigger pocket target to aim at. Right?

I'm pretty sure that is what J.B. is talking about.
Obviously, we are talking about subtle differences in the size of the "bigger" pocket angle vs the normal angle, but to bankers, that's a HUGE difference.

If you are wondering about the curve i am talking about, stand at the head of the table, and put the cueball away from the top rail one diamond, and one diamond away from the side rail on either side.
Then just start shooting the cueball by itself off the side rail you are closest to, trying to make the cueball 1 rail into the opposite corner pocket that is down table.

Now shoot this same cueball shot with draw at different speeds at the same exact angle each time, and you will see an exaggerated example of the principle i am talking about and how it can be manipulated when you watch the cueball curve after hitting the first rail, and traveling different paths based on your speed and draw.

Now imagine you can curve an object ball kinda like that.