Bank shots...

[John Brumback]

If you want to become a better banker,start thinking about the method to hit the "bank shot" instead of worrying about some system about how to aim the bank shot.
If you know the best method for the bank shot at hand,you will not have to AIM so precise anyway..
Champions use methods..suckers use.........you can fill in the blanks. John B.

 

[rjbigfish]

If you want to become a better banker,start thinking about the method to hit the "bank shot" instead of worrying about some system about how to aim.

Champions use methods..suckers use.........you can fill in the blanks. John B.

Advice from the best, simple yet to the point

 

[Zphix]

If you want to become a better banker,start thinking about the method to hit the "bank shot" instead of worrying about some system about how to aim.

Champions use methods..suckers use.........you can fill in the blanks. John B.

Can you elaborate John?

Maybe explaining how I bank will help me to understand this. Basically, when I'm banking a ball, I see the lines but don't measure them and I adjust from there with inside/outside, etc. Is that what you mean here? Not measuring to find a contact point but instead seeing the line and adjusting with English, or stroke?

 

[greyghost]

If you want to become a better banker,start thinking about the method to hit the "bank shot" instead of worrying about some system about how to aim.

Champions use methods..suckers use.........you can fill in the blanks. John B.

John this makes much sense tho some will scratch their heads....

At the new orleans bank ring game Mark Jarvis and I were playing some on the 10ft. A guy asked us how do you bank?, I laughed and said into the side pocket is a great place.

He asked if we knew systems....we both sure....then i mentioned but in top competition i rarely even use them....which blew him away.

mark says "yea its just pictures man" i said exactly.......thats why when the balls are close and you hit the little reverse cut bank its so easy its wired.....not that its 1/4 90 overlaps and all that stuff....you play. you practice. you learn all those systems.....comes down to it your just going to know your right on target because it looks the same as the picture the file man pulled out the cabinet in your brain.....and i just make that reality

thats what that means to me personally

-keebie

 

[336Robin]

The Pictures

GreyGhost,
I read and like your pictures post. Ive got this diagram I draw in my head on the table because Im looking for the position of a point. I know that once I find that point I can see a little closer what to do and those pictures start coming through. I had a friend I played banks with once and he beat me so bad at times it made me let loose and I would make banks I just didn't normally and I used to ask myself, how am I doing that? Yesterday I just set a few balls near the rail and one railed em didn't miss many of them, could I tell you how I did it? Yeah I guess I could but the truth is I saw the pictures in my mind and I knew I was going to come in close and I made the most of them. What an awesome feeling.

 

[Ak147]

If you want to become a better banker,start thinking about the method to hit the "bank shot" instead of worrying about some system about how to aim.

Champions use methods..suckers use.........you can fill in the blanks. John B.

Sorry, what do you mean by method? Please elaborate.

 

[Colonel]

I don't know about others but several above posters seem to understand the key that turns the lock for me, not just in banks but in all shots, that's the picture in your minds eye.

I'm not an instructor, don't claim to be. So I really don't know how well this will work for novice players as while I was young when this was relayed to me, I was a seasoned player.

It was explained to me that I needed to "see" the shot before dropping on the ball. That I needed,as the Greyghost put it, to pull the picture file out of the file in my brain. To "see" in my minds eye the perfect execution of the shot and resulting position of the cue ball with the proper angle for the next shot.

That once you've "seen" this clearly in your minds eye, drop on the shot & execute the shot. It's really that simple.

I have never understood all the back & forth and bickering & carping on this forum about "aiming systems", "banking systems" etc. perhaps those things actually work, I don't know as I've never consciously utilized them. In fact I don't believe the conscious mind has any real place in this game other than holding people back. That little voice in your head walking you through the steps of your aiming line, sweeps etc is not your friend, it's your enemy. I'll give an example, how many times have you faced a shot you weren't confident in and that little voice starts to blabber, "be careful, don't want to jaw this" & then you jaw the ball. Do you know why? By thinking about jawing it you inadvertently created the picture of the ball jawing & that's what you executed as a result. You're furious but your mind is pleased as it feels it executed exactly what you requested.

You need to learn to put a gag on that inner voice, stop focusing on the 42,000 intricate steps of some obscure aiming system dreamed up by others & just use your God given imagination to visualize the picture of what you wish to transpire & drop on the shot & let your subconscious take that positive visualization & do its job. Just a thought.

 

[Maxx]

If you want to become a better banker,start thinking about the method to hit the "bank shot" instead of worrying about some system about how to aim.

Champions use methods..suckers use.........you can fill in the blanks. John B.

John,
Does the same go for kicking for a ball?

 

[WillyCornbread]

Not much to add other than when that 'picture' starts to come in and you learn how to recognize it and just know the ball is going in and the shape will be perfect, man that's a great feeling...

This has just started happening for me, and the game is becoming more enjoyable, I'm not fighting myself so much. In the past I might struggle to decide between a sharp cut or a bank, lately it feels like my mind just knows which shot it can pull a picture of for me.

I attribute this to the fact that I've been really really paying close attention where the cue ball goes and what happens during practice and matches, trying to make sure my mind is filing away everything it can...

b

 

[tradr48]

And

Forget about the importance of a straight stroke. Ever take a look at Greenleaf's delivery. You'd think he had a broken elbow. Consistent TIMING is what gets the job done and that comes by beating a million balls.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

I think that while a lot of the "systems" we see are helpful, they are really just starting points. They can save some time for beginner to low intermediate players, imo.

The 'feel' like what most of the guys above have referred to; that, I believe, comes with lots of time at the table.

Slick vs grab, inside vs outside, half tip vs none or one, slow vs rocketing the ball in, how to make the pocket angle bigger, how speed affects the angles, etc etc.

Gotta pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues.

best,
brian kc

 

[Skippy27]

Forget about the importance of a straight stroke. Ever take a look at Greenleaf's delivery. You'd think he had a broken elbow. Consistent TIMING is what gets the job done and that comes by beating a million balls.

Simply one of the stupidest comments ever to appear on this board.

You can certainly learn the timing to shoot "straight" and to make balls. However, it will take you many months, if not years to truly master it to a level that someone that learns to shoot straight will accomplish in a couple weeks.

 

[Skippy27]

I think that while a lot of the "systems" we see are helpful, they are really just starting points. They can save some time for beginner to low intermediate players, imo.

I would agree. The more you bank the more you will just see them. However, in the beginning it is a good starting point to measure it out first so you have a good starting point and foundation to build from. You want to see successful shots over and over and over. You don't want to be constantly missing not knowing if it was because you saw it wrong or because you missed your mark on the bank.

 

[spktur]

If you want to become a better banker,start thinking about the method to hit the "bank shot" instead of worrying about some system about how to aim.

Champions use methods..suckers use.........you can fill in the blanks. John B.

As always John is honest and to the point. Champions don't rely on crutches, they rely on experience based on good solid practice.

 

[Pete]

Oh, nevermind

It's not so much "What He Knows" to me, it's "He's Forgotten More About Banking Than I'll Ever Know":frown:

 

[jalapus logan]

Oh, nevermind

Let's see...the memo on the check in his left hand reads "Master of the Table". Pretty sure that means that JB knows more than just banking...:thumbup:

 

[Jaden]

YEah and what do I know about kicking???

I guess nothing huh???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glF7eSQE8hM&t=72m30s


Look John, I don't mean any offense but what you're saying here doesn't really mean much, for a champion to come on and say, hey all you have to do is just do it, hit it right, put the ball in the hole, doesn't really help the majority of non champions out there.

That's the same as a champion feel based player (like John Schmidt) saying that no aiming systems work, oh yeah that's right, he recently recanted that.

Sure, it is possible to become a champion just by hitting balls forever... IF you are capable of doing so JUST from hitting balls, but not everyone is capable of reaching their own top notch playing ability by just hitting balls, and it does those people a disservice when a champion comes on and says just put em in the pocket...

Jaden

p.s. the logic also fails there to.

I did it just by feel, so you can too...

It's a much better statement for someone who had difficulty doing it by feel and then found a system that helped him. I can't make that claim. I was a good player before I ever started using any systems...but I can tell you, my kicking DID get more accurate when I figured out the contact point and started using that as a baseline...

 

[shinobi]

I guess nothing huh???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glF7eSQE8hM&t=72m30s

I can make the same kick but my cueball then goes in the side pocket. How did you keep it out? :grin-square:

 

[Jaden]

magnets...

I can make the same kick but my cueball then goes in the side pocket. How did you keep it out? :grin-square:

MAgnets!!!!

I was later disqualified...

Yeah I knew it was going to come at the four to give me shape on the two in the other side, but man, i was thinking "You've got to be fuggin shittin' me" when it caromed off the four and started to look like it would scratch.....

Jaden

 

[Dosed]

I guess nothing huh???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glF7eSQE8hM&t=72m30s


Look John, I don't mean any offense but what you're saying here doesn't really mean much, for a champion to come on and say, hey all you have to do is just do it, hit it right, put the ball in the hole, doesn't really help the majority of non champions out there.

That's the same as a champion feel based player (like John Schmidt) saying that no aiming systems work, oh yeah that's right, he recently recanted that.

Sure, it is possible to become a champion just by hitting balls forever... IF you are capable of doing so JUST from hitting balls, but not everyone is capable of reaching their own top notch playing ability by just hitting balls, and it does those people a disservice when a champion comes on and says just put em in the pocket...

Jaden

p.s. the logic also fails there to.

I did it just by feel, so you can too...

It's a much better statement for someone who had difficulty doing it by feel and then found a system that helped him. I can't make that claim. I was a good player before I ever started using any systems...but I can tell you, my kicking DID get more accurate when I figured out the contact point and started using that as a baseline...

I don't believe you hit where you aimed and the original aim line you measured was to acute of an angle. And also I believe you think some system will automatically cause to to make banks/ kicks. What John is saying I believe is that it won't snap in like you think. One must practice a ton to see these things. Almost all top players are feel players. All the pinoys and Europeans are. They play a ton of pool. Then you add in table conditions and what ever else. I don't believe your videos proves anything and the fact you made it and didn't scratch is just lucky. Point is feeling shots well is a result of playing a lot. Playing a lot will make you better with the right state of mind.