Bar Table Champions

[jay helfert]

In 9 Ball whoever is breaking the best on a bar box will generally win. On a 9 footer you still have to play very good to get out.

In 8 Ball there are alot of moves on a bar box. I have seen two players in the Pacific Northwest get out from almost everwhere on a bar box playing 8 Ball. These two players (consider pros in my book) would give the top teer players fits. Strategy is alot tougher on a Bar Box playing 8 Ball since there are more clusters.

Glenn Atwell and Stan Tourangeau? How many people know these guys and yet they can play bar table Eight Ball with ANYONE! Edwin Montal is another champion player from the great North country. Brady Gollan is one more from up your way. And for 20 years Dan Louie beat everyone!

You'd have to look long and hard to find four or five players who could take on this crew. That might make an interesting match up for TAR. A little bar table Eight Ball. Say a doubles match with Atwell and Montal vs. Mills and Bartram. Something a little different for the pool fans, but all excellent players. I know these things aren't easy to organize but I'd love to see a match like this on a small box.

 

[DrawtheRock]

Any Game

yeah theres guys who have the best of it against pga tour players and nobody heard of them.lol

the reason people look like champions on bartable is because its much easier to play what looks like perfect pool on a tiny table with big pockets.

ill tell you what ill play these so called unknown champions on a bartable and then we can play on a bigtable until someone wins both sets.

oh by the way i know alot of golfers who can shoot 62 from the 6000 yard tees in golf including me.
but these same people including me couldnt make a cut in 50 tries in a pga tour event.

John--definitely respect your game and love that you post your opinion on here. I would have to ask you though. You would play a bar table champion on the bar box as long as he played you on a big table..would you play him any game? and of course for a lot of money?

 

[DrawtheRock]

any more mexican players

I've seen some bar tables that are not so soft. Diamonds come to mind first.
9-Ball is a 'joke' for top players on an easy bar box. In fact, usually when good players match up on a small table they are playing Ten Ball. That makes a little more sense. I prefer Eight Ball on a bar table. The run outs can be tricky and there are many moves that can be made. The table is congested and position can be very tough to achieve. I have a lot of admiration for the guys who win the Master's division at the major "amateur" championships. These guys are "Players"!

As far as undercover players who can beat the top pros. Very Doubtful. There are some pretty good players out there who are not well known, but would I put them up against a top pro. No way! Not that it hasn't happened. No one knew who Cannela was when he beat everybody he played on the bar box. And when Parica first came over here, he robbed a who's who of champions, although that was big table pool. Even Morro snuck up on a lot of good players before he got outed 20 years ago. More recently Mike Dechaine and Justin Bergman stayed undercover for a while, but that didn't last long. Amar Kang and Tony Chohan had a pretty good run for a couple of years. And Steve Knight from England won a ton of money before he retired to poker. It's a very short life span to try to go undercover today. Maybe a year or two at best.

Jay--not to out anyone--but do you know of any mexican champions that stayed away from the big table tournaments and have only hustled bar pool? Again, you dont have to name anyone by name but I do think you might know of somebody that definitely plays very strong on the bar box

 

[muttley76]

Jay--not to out anyone--but do you know of any mexican champions that stayed away from the big table tournaments and have only hustled bar pool? Again, you dont have to name anyone by name but I do think you might know of somebody that definitely plays very strong on the bar box

Don't think I'm "outing" him, but I played Ismael Paez on the small track once, and he didn't miss a whole lot:angry:

 

[Yancey]

Jay,

You are absolutely correct. Glen Atwell I knew in Anchorage AK and in the lower 48, he can play with anyone on a bar box in 8 ball. As can Jason Kirkwood.

Now after being in Omaha, dont forget John Shupet , Omaha John.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay--not to out anyone--but do you know of any mexican champions that stayed away from the big table tournaments and have only hustled bar pool? Again, you dont have to name anyone by name but I do think you might know of somebody that definitely plays very strong on the bar box

There were and are several who fit that bill. Come around the BCA tournament in Vegas sometime and keep your eyes on the gambling tables out front. Same goes for the Super Expo. That's where the undercover champions show up, many of them hispanic.

For many years back in the 60's and 70's the Mexican players ruled on the bar boxes out here. I saw quite a few big table champions go down trying to beat these guys. Sergio, Mario, Little Al, Tracy Joe, Al Nicaragua, these guys could play on that little box. And weren't afraid of any name player.

The other great bar table players who were around back then would pretty much leave the Mexican champs alone. The action was too tough. Peter Gunn and Bakersfield Bobby are two who come to mind. Both great players. And of course Junior Weldon and Ronnie were just as good.

Keith was the first guy who came along that went looking for the Mexican bar table champions. He did a number on just about all of them, earning him the nickname El Diablo.

 

[real bartram]

Glenn Atwell and Stan Tourangeau? How many people know these guys and yet they can play bar table Eight Ball with ANYONE! Edwin Montal is another champion player from the great North country. Brady Gollan is one more from up your way. And for 20 years Dan Louie beat everyone!

You'd have to look long and hard to find four or five players who could take on this crew. That might make an interesting match up for TAR. A little bar table Eight Ball. Say a doubles match with Atwell and Montal vs. Mills and Bartram. Something a little different for the pool fans, but all excellent players. I know these things aren't easy to organize but I'd love to see a match like this on a small box.

jay make this a game me and donny will play.

 

[DrawtheRock]

Visalia Bob

There were and are several who fit that bill. Come around the BCA tournament in Vegas sometime and keep your eyes on the gambling tables out front. Same goes for the Super Expo. That's where the undercover champions show up, many of them hispanic.

For many years back in the 60's and 70's the Mexican players ruled on the bar boxes out here. I saw quite a few big table champions go down trying to beat these guys. Sergio, Mario, Little Al, Tracy Joe, Al Nicaragua, these guys could play on that little box. And weren't afraid of any name player.

The other great bar table players who were around back then would pretty much leave the Mexican champs alone. The action was too tough. Peter Gunn and Bakersfield Bobby are two who come to mind. Both great players. And of course Junior Weldon and Ronnie were just as good.

Keith was the first guy who came along that went looking for the Mexican bar table champions. He did a number on just about all of them, earning him the nickname El Diablo.

Jay..you had a pool room in bakersfield..did you every see Visalia Bob play on the bar box? I think he told me that he would play in Bakersfield from time to time. Was a solid player..busted Davenport on the barbox and broke even with Swanee after a long session. Also, how did Billy Ray play on the bar box? Saw his speed on big table but heard he was much better on the bar table

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

Glenn Atwell and Stan Tourangeau? How many people know these guys and yet they can play bar table Eight Ball with ANYONE! Edwin Montal is another champion player from the great North country. Brady Gollan is one more from up your way. And for 20 years Dan Louie beat everyone!

You'd have to look long and hard to find four or five players who could take on this crew. That might make an interesting match up for TAR. A little bar table Eight Ball. Say a doubles match with Atwell and Montal vs. Mills and Bartram. Something a little different for the pool fans, but all excellent players. I know these things aren't easy to organize but I'd love to see a match like this on a small box.

Jay you read my mind. Glen and Stan are great 8 Ball players on the Bar Box and they are a threat to anyone.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

To the topic creator- Your talking as if the top pros can't string rack after rack on a barbox. Even if one of these undercover monsters hits a top pro with a 10 pack, its not gonna faze them, because the pros know they can do that too. I have seen undercover monsters that really impressed me, but in the long run I dont think there is anyone that can rob the top pros.

 

[JCIN]

The myth of a total unknown beating top pros over the long haul is just that. Sounds good but it just ain't so.

You bring someone to Derby that no one knows and have him match up with Shane, Alex, Schmidt, Appleton, Frost or someone of that caliber and if they can win you will have more money than you can carry.

The action pool world is tiny. It is very very hard to stay under the radar while playing for any serious money. Just because you or I haven't heard of a guy doesn't mean the people who do this for a living have no idea.

Perfect example is Matt Clatterbuck when he played Ronnie Wiseman at the Open. Some people knew nothing about Matt thought Ronnie was stealing. Just because certain people don't know a guy doesn't make him unknown.

I am sure most top pros would drool over the chance to play an real unknown with an overconfident stake horse.

 

[The Saw]

Just a question for opinions from those who know undercover bar table monsters. Which undercover, or even known, guy has made the most $ on bar tables in the past ten years?

 

[The Saw]

I've seen some bar tables that are not so soft. Diamonds come to mind first.

Some Diamond bar tables have a real deep slate fall (similar to the old PBT tables) and play real snug....

 

[jay helfert]

Jay..you had a pool room in bakersfield..did you every see Visalia Bob play on the bar box? I think he told me that he would play in Bakersfield from time to time. Was a solid player..busted Davenport on the barbox and broke even with Swanee after a long session. Also, how did Billy Ray play on the bar box? Saw his speed on big table but heard he was much better on the bar table

Bob Teppit or something like that. He was very tough to beat on his home court. A lot of guys tried and most didn't do well. Only very good players would go to Visalia looking for him. I went up there one time, but really just to see him play. I didn't want any part of him on a bar table. He never came in my room looking to play me. I would have played him on a big table.

I never saw Billy Ray play on a bar table, but he was a good hustler so I'm sure he did. I did play him in my pool room.

 

[macneilb]

i don't know exactly what the original poster is trying to say now, before I thought he was trying to say that there are some monsters

like Weldon Rogers (in his heyday) who would, chances are, have the better of it against most pros (apparently even in KY barbox

tourney's w/ fields full of guys like breedlove's and fargo's he was still the favourite to win it) on the box, which I can agree with. The

whole unknown champions lurking around I'm not so sure of, although i guess its possible. On a side note, I do agree that it takes a

different kind of player to be a great 8B player on the box. Yeah, open tables on a barbox are easy runs, but they're just as easy on a 9

footer when its opened up nice w/ nothing touching...but players that can deal with and pick apart the real clusterf*ck tables which

generally come up more often on the barbox are definately players.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

you got action in Tennessee anytime you want.i will take you to a public 6000yrd or under course and you can shoot at 62 for whatever you want to bet.

take it easy killer.

in 05 i was a member a tanglewood cc.
i was playing everyday.

with many witnesses including the head pro.

from 6200 yards par 72 ive shot 62 twice,63 twice 64 3 times and another 50 rounds in the sixties.

i was playing in 20-40 man money games with many witnesses.

so when i say i can do it its because i have done it.
call up tanglewood ,by the way pga tour player and my good buddy who has seen me play like this boo weekley will tell you that is as tough of 6200 yards as you want.

 

[instroke75]

good luck take an unknown player to beat donny if he will not bet what you want pm. me ill bet the rest any unknown player playing donny on bar table big table or on the floor this post was dumb . ill also play the unknown player and give you 25 perc of your money back.

hit the nail on the head! lol

Jeremy

 

[watchez]

In the early 90s Sammy Soto played Buddy Hall a race to 100 with the big ball on a bar table and won. That is one of the few 'unknown' players I can think of beating a pro for money. But too many, Sammy might not have been so unknown. I do know that when he arrived in St Louis, no one knew who he was.

Oldhasbeen (aka Tom Ferry) was another 'unknown' that could have beat a pro on the bar table but Tom would never even put himself in a match like that to get the notoriety.

 

[satman]

Mid 90's I think

In the early 90s Sammy Soto played Buddy Hall a race to 100 with the big ball on a bar table and won. That is one of the few 'unknown' players I can think of beating a pro for money. But too many, Sammy might not have been so unknown. I do know that when he arrived in St Louis, no one knew who he was.

Oldhasbeen (aka Tom Ferry) was another 'unknown' that could have beat a pro on the bar table but Tom would never even put himself in a match like that to get the notoriety.

I think around 93 or 94 Sammy came thru here. I played him twice in 1 week. Lost the first night, about $200 at $20 a game. Took about 5 hours.
3 days later, I lost $120 at $20 a game in about 6 hours. They had about $50 a game in additional side bets, but could have had another $50 or $100 a game if they wanted.
Junior, Weldon Rogers, when he first came to Indiana, I had no clue who he was. But he was a great bar table player. I'm not sure exactly how unknown he was, but he could knock off a lot of top Pro Players on the bar box.

Yea, the bar box is easier, we've all had this discussion here several times. But you take a Top BIG table player, who never plays bar tables, and try to play against an unknown bar box player, who plays around Weldon's speed, they probably won't like it. Most of the top pro's, play the bar boxes too, out of necessity. Trying to make a living just playing on big tables in this country is extremely hard.
Jeanette lee, along with at 3 other players I know, who I won't mention here, play about 2 balls better on a big table than the bar box. These are guys who are not rated as TOP PRO's, but are great players.

As for UNKNOWN bar box players out there who would beat a Top Pro, I'd have to believe there are a few. But you won't ever get to play them. That's why they are UNKNOWN...... Maybe could have played Pro Tourney's, but can make a hell of a lot more money not playing you, or any Known players.
Chris and Billy against Glen and Montal. That would be a great match. They're all great bar table players, {never seen Billy play}

 

[jay helfert]

jay make this a game me and donny will play.

If you guys can come out to the U.S. Bar Table Championships in Reno (late Feb.) I think we can get this one on. It is also a good tournament with some decent money attached (about 25K in added money). Glenn, Stan and Edwin will be there. I'm sure two of these three guys will have the backing necessary to play you and Donnie. We're talking about 5K per team, maybe a Race To Ten (or eleven), Eight Ball. How does that sound.