Bar Table vs Big Table

[FeelDaShot]

Up until this year I've been primarily a bar box 9-ball player. I owned a bar box, played in bar box tournaments, and rarely played on big tables (9' footers). I always considered big table pool to be a million times more challenging than bar table pool and I know most others do too.

Well, I bought a big table a few months back and have been playing on it so much that big tables are no longer a problem for me. I can play my best game on a big table just like I used to on a bar table.

Now that I have become a big table player, I expected bar tables to be super easy. That was hardly the case. Sure, the shots were shorter and more automatic, but I was really struggling with position and often found myself against the rail or on the wrong side of the ball. Also, I rarely got a make-able shot after the break and always had a few clusters to deal with.

With that being said, which table is actually harder? I see pro's put together big packages on the big tables with ease. I guess there aren't too many winner break tournaments on bar boxes so it's hard to compare.

If you bet on a pro to run a 5 pack in 9-ball, which table would you put him/her on??

To clarify, I'm talking about Diamond bar boxes. Valleys are a different story...

 

[shoxy]

If you bet on a pro to run a 5 pack in 9-ball, which table would you put him/her on??

without a single doubt or any hesitation, If were to bet on a pro running a 5 pack of 9 ball for the $$$? It would have to be the bar box.

I can't see a pro that isn't breaking well to not run out on a barbox: especially in 9 ball where the soft break can be so-so strong. For example: take a look at SVB at the USBTC 9 Ball Championships or any 9 ball bar box tournament … they're all SOFT breaking and running out 98% of the time.

 

[jasonlaus]

Up until this year I've been primarily a bar box 9-ball player. I owned a bar box, played in bar box tournaments, and rarely played on big tables (9' footers). I always considered big table pool to be a million times more challenging than bar table pool and I know most others do too.

Well, I bought a big table a few months back and have been playing on it so much that big tables are no longer a problem for me. I can play my best game on a big table just like I used to on a bar table.

Now that I have become a big table player, I expected bar tables to be super easy. That was hardly the case. Sure, the shots were shorter and more automatic, but I was really struggling with position and often found myself against the rail or on the wrong side of the ball. Also, I rarely got a make-able shot after the break and always had a few clusters to deal with.

With that being said, which table is actually harder? I see pro's put together big packages on the big tables with ease. I guess there aren't too many winner break tournaments on bar boxes so it's hard to compare.

If you bet on a pro to run a 5 pack in 9-ball, which table would you put him/her on??

To clarify, I'm talking about Diamond bar boxes. Valleys are a different story...

If you cant get shape on a barbox it's your fundamentals that are the problem. Same for clusters, so easy to break apart on a BB. BB is way easier than 9'
Jason

 

[GideonF]

Assuming that the pro is used to playing on both 9' and 7' tables, and given that your question is about 9b, I would rather bet on them running a 5 pack on a 7' table than a 9' table.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Up until this year I've been primarily a bar box 9-ball player. I owned a bar box, played in bar box tournaments, and rarely played on big tables (9' footers). I always considered big table pool to be a million times more challenging than bar table pool and I know most others do too.



Well, I bought a big table a few months back and have been playing on it so much that big tables are no longer a problem for me. I can play my best game on a big table just like I used to on a bar table.



Now that I have become a big table player, I expected bar tables to be super easy. That was hardly the case. Sure, the shots were shorter and more automatic, but I was really struggling with position and often found myself against the rail or on the wrong side of the ball. Also, I rarely got a make-able shot after the break and always had a few clusters to deal with.



With that being said, which table is actually harder? I see pro's put together big packages on the big tables with ease. I guess there aren't too many winner break tournaments on bar boxes so it's hard to compare.



If you bet on a pro to run a 5 pack in 9-ball, which table would you put him/her on??



To clarify, I'm talking about Diamond bar boxes. Valleys are a different story...

Your question needs clarification. Are you asking on which table you might be most likely to establish a personal best high run or something? Or are you asking on which table are you more likely to win? My point is what is your definition of "harder"? For example, I'm a decent amateur player. Against the typical armature player, I'm likely to win more on a big table. However, if I'm playing pros, I have a better shot on a bar table, particularly playing 8 ball.

I don't believe one is harder. They are different games with different demands. The differences are there for both you and your opponent. Bar table pool I believe places a greater emphasis on knowledge focus and determination. When everyone can play near perfect, that's where the differences show up. Big table shifts that emphasis towards pure execution. So what makes a table "harder" depends on where an individuals best strengths lie, and also where the strengths of their competition lie.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

 

[Black-Balled]

I am no pro and I've had a 5 and many 3+ packs in tourneys on ye olde bar box.

I've only had 1 4pk in tourney on 9' and have prob played about 1000 more big table events than little ones

 

[jrctherake]

Up until this year I've been primarily a bar box 9-ball player. I owned a bar box, played in bar box tournaments, and rarely played on big tables (9' footers). I always considered big table pool to be a million times more challenging than bar table pool and I know most others do too.

Your correct, the bigger the table the harder the play is. The longer the table, the longer your shots are gonna be which means your accuracy has to be tighter.

Some people think that shape is EASY on a big table. LOL, it's actually just as hard only instead of a smaller space to "hit" you have a much bigger space to "cover".



Well, I bought a big table a few months back and have been playing on it so much that big tables are no longer a problem for me. I can play my best game on a big table just like I used to on a bar table.

Exactly, I tell everyone to not be scared of the bigger tables. They can play just as strong on a big table.



Now that I have become a big table player, I expected bar tables to be super easy. That was hardly the case. Sure, the shots were shorter and more automatic, but I was really struggling with position and often found myself against the rail or on the wrong side of the ball. Also, I rarely got a make-able shot after the break and always had a few clusters to deal with.

Yes, the shots are easier. Your shot alignment can be off a great deal more and still make the ball.

Like I said before, on a big table you do not get to bunt balls around the table at pocket speed and the cue ball still have enough juice to go two or three rails for shape. Just no gonna happen.


On the smaller table your position area is smaller but you do not have to travel nowhere near as far to get there which means less power which equals more accuracy for most. Again, now you are just bunting balls around at pocket speed or little more unless you are out of line a lot.


Clusters after the break is more likely on small table but, if you have a very good break you should not have to worry much about clusters. Plus, clusters are easier to hit when they are closer to the cb to begin with. Much harder to hit a target (cluster) with a cb if it has to travel 15 to 20 feet vs traveling 6 to 10 feet.



With that being said, which table is actually harder? I see pro's put together big packages on the big tables with ease. I guess there aren't too many winner break tournaments on bar boxes so it's hard to compare.

Any pro that cannot perform at a very high level on either is obviously a very weak pro.

IMO, players that are "A-" and below are most likely gonna feel a difference from one to another. The weaker the player, the more they will notice.

Shortstop level players should have no problems playing their best on either with very little adjustment.



If you bet on a pro to run a 5 pack in 9-ball, which table would you put him/her on??

5 pack of 9 ball? Either one is dead lock for a pro.

Any mediocre "A" can put a 5 pack together on big and small tables.

To clarify, I'm talking about D

First off, its not just the table that makes a difference. The games we practice can make a huge difference in our progress in other games.

Think about this, after the break in 10 ball or 9 ball it comes down to the following:

1. Being able to choose the correct pattern
2. Being able to pocket balls at high %
3. Being able to control CB speed and accuracy for position
4. Being able to "keep" my focus where it needs to be at all times

Now, ask yourself which of the following games will help you with 1, 2, 3, and 4 that comes into play after the break?:

10 ball
9 ball
str8 pool
American Rotation
Equal offense

There are other games but those are the bread and butter for most. Now, which games do you think are best and why?

Do not know about others but, to me, the only reason I rack 10 ball or 9 ball is to practice the break for each. That's it.

Sure, ever so often I will play a ghost race as a way to check my progress and find areas of my game that may be weak at the time. Other than safety play the ghost is a terrific way for people that do not like smoke filled rooms or have to play by themselves a lot. My health is more important than pool.

Bottom line:

play str8 pool to be a ball runner
play AR to learn to be more creative with combos, caroms.....etc

Str8 pool and AR is best to help with pattern play and everything else other than:

9 ball and 10 ball break.

 

[AtLarge]

... I see pro's put together big packages on the big tables with ease. ...

...5 pack of 9 ball? Either one is dead lock for a pro.

Any mediocre "A" can put a 5 pack together on big and small tables.

The frequency of large B&R packages in pro-tournament 9-Ball on 9-foot tables is often exaggerated.

Results vary quite a bit depending on the rules, equipment, etc. But for a hint at the answer, let's look at the streamed matches I have tracked in the US Open 9-Ball Championship for the last 7 years combined (2011 through 2017).

Total matches -- 239
Total games -- 4,145
B&R games -- 929
B&R % -- 22.4%

B&R's by size of "package"

• 1 -- 535
  2 -- 114
  3 -- 35
  4 -- 11
  5 -- 1
  6 -- 2

So, that's just 3 packages of 5 or larger in 239 matches -- about once for every 80 matches.

In the recently concluded International 9-Ball Open, the number of 5-packs in the 40 streamed matches was 1 (and nothing larger).

 

[easy-e]

I've only had 1 4pk in tourney on 9' and have prob played about 1000 more big table events than little ones

HAHAHA, you suck!

 

[Dimeball]

The frequency of large B&R packages in pro-tournament 9-Ball on 9-foot tables is often exaggerated.

Results vary quite a bit depending on the rules, equipment, etc. But for a hint at the answer, let's look at the streamed matches I have tracked in the US Open 9-Ball Championship for the last 7 years combined (2011 through 2017).

Total matches -- 239
Total games -- 4,145
B&R games -- 929
B&R % -- 22.4%

B&R's by size of "package"

• 1 -- 535
  2 -- 114
  3 -- 35
  4 -- 11
  5 -- 1
  6 -- 2

So, that's just 3 packages of 5 or larger in 239 matches -- about once for every 80 matches.

In the recently concluded International 9-Ball Open, the number of 5-packs in the 40 streamed matches was 1 (and nothing larger).

Thank you!
I’d say greatly exaggerated on this forum too! Haha!

 

[jrctherake]

The frequency of large B&R packages in pro-tournament 9-Ball on 9-foot tables is often exaggerated.

Results vary quite a bit depending on the rules, equipment, etc. But for a hint at the answer, let's look at the streamed matches I have tracked in the US Open 9-Ball Championship for the last 7 years combined (2011 through 2017).

Total matches -- 239
Total games -- 4,145
B&R games -- 929
B&R % -- 22.4%

B&R's by size of "package"

• 1 -- 535
  2 -- 114
  3 -- 35
  4 -- 11
  5 -- 1
  6 -- 2

So, that's just 3 packages of 5 or larger in 239 matches -- about once for every 80 matches.

In the recently concluded International 9-Ball Open, the number of 5-packs in the 40 streamed matches was 1 (and nothing larger).

No doubt about it. I assumed everyone on this site knew that we are not talking about tournament play or the like only the inexperienced who think otherwise.

The OP, from what I remember (to lazy to look again) ask which table "a" (a pro, meaning 1 person by themselves) pro would be more out to run a 5 pack if we put him or her on?

I (brase yourself..lol) assumed he was talking about a ghost situation where player breaks, takes ball in hand and runs out.

Only an idiot would think that pros are putting 5 packs together during normal competition on a regular basis. Nope, nada, not going to happen.

Again, in a ghost situation, well, the 5 pack would be a dead lock for any pro.

I'm not the only one, there are others on here that feel like a 5 pack is fairly easy with b.i.h. after break and WITHOUT pattern racking OR with pattern racking. To me, not a big difference with b.i.h.

Take b.i.h. away, um well, all of a sudden pattern racking is huge advantage.

Rake

 

[sixpack]

I have recently been watching the 2015,2016 us open 8-ball played on diamond bar tables. It’s alternate break but there were several matches where the player ran all of his from the break. For the elite players, I would say 8-ball on a Bar box most races to 9 would include a 3-4 pack and many would include a 5-pack. Watch the match between Shane and Josh Roberts. I don’t remember the year for sure but 2016 or 2017 - both players ran every table from their break. 17 run outs in a row by two different players.

I used to think 8b on big table was easier but with the ability to break out balls and hit clusters today, the top pros are a favorite to string racks on a bar box more than the 9’ tables.

I bet if you put Corey and Shane in a race to 13 8b bar table winner breaks you’d have two 5-packs. Maybe by the same player.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Every single game under the sun is way easier on a Diamond bar box compared to a Diamond 9' table. (same size pockets on both). This includes the "cluster argument" games such as 8 ball and straight pool.

I would bet my house, plus your house, that from top pro all the way down to C player, that entire range would shoot better on the smaller table. D player and banger I have no clue, as they will each take 5 tries per ball on any table.

 

[Buster8001]

So, I'll qualify my statements by saying I'm just an average player; I'm an APA 6 in 8ball and a 7 in 9ball. I have a CG 1 downstairs and practicing is making me a better player. I have goal set for myself to be a strong local player, at some point. My problem and frustration with going from my big table to the box on league nights, is I feel like I can't let my stroke out like I do on my table. So, I inadvertently end up poking at the cueball. it's definitely an adjustment for me, and it plays hell on my mental game.

Josh

 

[CGM]

So, I'll qualify my statements by saying I'm just an average player; I'm an APA 6 in 8ball and a 7 in 9ball. I have a CG 1 downstairs and practicing is making me a better player. I have goal set for myself to be a strong local player, at some point. My problem and frustration with going from my big table to the box on league nights, is I feel like I can't let my stroke out like I do on my table. So, I inadvertently end up poking at the cueball. it's definitely an adjustment for me, and it plays hell on my mental game.

Josh

This is me exactly, including owning a 9' GC. Owning the big table has improved my game leaps and bounds but I still struggle in 8 ball on a bar box because I have a terrible time breaking out all of the clusters. However, there is no argument whatsoever that the overall game is much easier and run outs much more likely on a bar box, especially a Valley.

 

[Cornerman]

Up until this year I've been primarily a bar box 9-ball player. I owned a bar box, played in bar box tournaments, and rarely played on big tables (9' footers). I always considered big table pool to be a million times more challenging than bar table pool and I know most others do too.

Well, I bought a big table a few months back and have been playing on it so much that big tables are no longer a problem for me. I can play my best game on a big table just like I used to on a bar table.

Now that I have become a big table player, I expected bar tables to be super easy. That was hardly the case. Sure, the shots were shorter and more automatic, but I was really struggling with position and often found myself against the rail or on the wrong side of the ball. Also, I rarely got a make-able shot after the break and always had a few clusters to deal with.

With that being said, which table is actually harder? I see pro's put together big packages on the big tables with ease. I guess there aren't too many winner break tournaments on bar boxes so it's hard to compare.

If you bet on a pro to run a 5 pack in 9-ball, which table would you put him/her on??

To clarify, I'm talking about Diamond bar boxes. Valleys are a different story...

Overall, the 7’ table is going to be easier. But you highlight that switching down from big to small isn’t as easy as people fantasize.

IMO, if you already are a good shotmaker, then going down to a smaller table is more about position navigation. If you’re not a great shotmaker, then going down to a smaller table will seem like an easier transition.

Freddie

 

[jasonlaus]

So, I'll qualify my statements by saying I'm just an average player; I'm an APA 6 in 8ball and a 7 in 9ball. I have a CG 1 downstairs and practicing is making me a better player. I have goal set for myself to be a strong local player, at some point. My problem and frustration with going from my big table to the box on league nights, is I feel like I can't let my stroke out like I do on my table. So, I inadvertently end up poking at the cueball. it's definitely an adjustment for me, and it plays hell on my mental game.

Josh

I had a 10' with ~ 4 1/8 pockets and switched to the BB once a week. I will admit that at times speed control was a bit difficult. Different cloth and temperature didnt help either, but it wasnt that noticable after 10mins..

You should be able to adjust when you get used to the speed of the different cloth.
I would recommend starting out by letting your stroke out and then tightening it up over the course of 10 - 20 mins. You have to get on the BB early and by yourself to do this, it's very difficult to do when you are shooting with somebody else.
Jason

 

[Buster8001]

I had a 10' with ~ 4 1/8 pockets and switched to the BB once a week. I will admit that at times speed control was a bit difficult. Different cloth and temperature didnt help either, but it wasnt that noticable after 10mins..

You should be able to adjust when you get used to the speed of the different cloth.
I would recommend starting out by letting your stroke out and then tightening it up over the course of 10 - 20 mins. You have to get on the BB early and by yourself to do this, it's very difficult to do when you are shooting with somebody else.
Jason

I'll give this a shot. Usually, you're correct, I practice with my teammates.
Thanks, Jason.

 

[Poolplaya9]

For 9 ball, for pretty much everybody the game is a whole lot easier on a 7 ft than on a 9 ft table--like, a lot. For all the other games, for almost all players they are also easier on a 7 ft table than a 9 ft table, but the differences are not nearly as large when talking about games where the table can be crowded with balls (typically 8 ball, but also straight pool etc). Because of the relative skills that are most needed on the various table sizes, there are even some people that play 8 ball better on a 9 ft table than on a 7 ft table for example. In fact I think there is a pretty good chance that the highest 8 ball run ever done by a pro happened on a 9 ft table rather than a 7 ft table.

The table size puts an emphasis on different things and so they affect different players a bit differently. On a 9 ft table, it really puts a premium on shot making strength (all the other skills are still obviously necessary to excel though). On a 7 ft table, it really puts a premium on strength of position play, as well as on strategy and pattern play (all the other skills are still obviously necessary to excel though). Within reason, if your particular strength is shot making, I would always try to match up on a 9 ft table, and if your particular strengths are position play and strategy, I would always try to match up on a 7 ft table to give you your best chance to win against an opponent.

 

[Cornerman]

I had a 10' with ~ 4 1/8 pockets and switched to the BB once a week. I will admit that at times speed control was a bit difficult. Different cloth and temperature didnt help either, but it wasnt that noticable after 10mins..

You should be able to adjust when you get used to the speed of the different cloth.
I would recommend starting out by letting your stroke out and then tightening it up over the course of 10 - 20 mins. You have to get on the BB early and by yourself to do this, it's very difficult to do when you are shooting with somebody else.
Jason

Great, real-world post. The challenge for a lot of us is going to play league once a week without the 10 minutes to figure things out.

Freddie <~~~ lived that nightmare all too often