BCALeague, Mark Griffin & Professional Pool Players

watchez said:
A handicap (sandbagging) system like the APA will ruin the BCA. Obviously what klockdoc meant was that if the BCA went to a numbered handicap system like the APA, it will be disastrous. Yes, the BCA has tiers but not handicaps. Handicaps imply that two players of different skill levels play each other and some sort of spot is involved.
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Sorry, guess I wasn't clear enough. Thanks Watchez for you input.
 
I believe that an individual BCA league is free to run their league as they see fit. If the one that ScottW plays in feels that promoting sandbagging increases participation & overall play, then that is why they continue to do so. I just hope that the national BCA tournament isn't ever effected by the same mentality.
 
klockdoc said:
I hope Mark doesn't change to a handicap system. I thoroughly love the non-handicap system that BCA employs. This is why I left the APA.
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There's continued confusion here. How do we stop it?

The BCA Pool Leagues can and have used any handicap system they want at the local levels. EVen if it's the APA system. That's been the case for years, and there's nothing to indicate that anyone is discussing changing it. At the national competition, it's a different story.

The BCAPL National 8-ball Championship is run in tiers, no handicapping. That's also been the case for years with an additional Grand Masters tier being added just a couple of years ago. I didn't hear anyone indicating that would change either.

Mark Griffin is talking about a venture that is only related to the BCAPL in the fact that he is the CEO of that league and with it, he has a structure and contacts that allows him to consider other growth potential in leagues and league structures apart from the BCAPL.

So, there's no indication that Mark wants to change directly anything with the BCAPL that he owns/runs due to this new venture, which is separate.

Fred
 
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There is no one better than Mark Griffin IMHO, to handle a situation like this. He is all class and knows the game as well as anyone.

I do think however he needs to do two things to be really, really respected...

A- Get an infomercial hawking natural cures....

B- His right hand man needs to be an Ooompa Loompa registered sex offender.

JV :D
 
watchez said:
I believe that an individual BCA league is free to run their league as they see fit. If the one that ScottW plays in feels that promoting sandbagging increases participation & overall play, then that is why they continue to do so. I just hope that the national BCA tournament isn't ever effected by the same mentality.
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Woot, you even managed to put words into the mouth of someone who isn't involved in this conversation. Go, you!

As best I can tell, this league started the 150% handicap thing to even things out more, to give the weaker teams more of a chance to compete. As it turns out, it appears to have been TOO much, and is going to be changed this session. Talk is of reducing it to 125% or eliminating the bonus altogether.

As far as this one team sandbagging - that's not the case. They're playing at their speed. The handicap system is simply overcompensating.
 
bestkites said:
Also had a brief conversation with Bill in Vegas and BCA will come out with a new handicapped system to be applied on all leagues. That same system will also be applied on the BCA Nationals in Vegas and APA is going to start having some real competition. There is a lot of stuff coming down the pipe from BCA, not only the support for pro players but to the sport of billiards as a whole.
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Fred - the confusion starts from this post by a poster that was NOT KLOCKDOC above.

Again, it is understood that any local BCA league can handicap as they wish but per bestkites and his source of Bill - a new handicap system will infect the national event.
 
sjm said:
Take a deep bow, Joey, for what may be your single finest post as a member of this forum.

Pro pool players need to come to the realization that it's the man behind the venture, not the money behind the venture, that will save the day.

In December 2005, before the first IPT event was even played, I recall being rubbed the wrong way by posts suggestng that Kevin Trudeau's riches were the very guarantee that tournament players had always sought, and somewhat angrily, I posted the following:



As importantly, Trudeau had no history of doing anything for pool and refused to tie the future of his organization to anything or anyone concerned about the general well-being of both amateur and pro pool. He lacked the track record, and he lacked the passion to be the man who would see to pool's future as a sport. As many pointed out before the IPT held it's first tournament, he also lacked integrity.

Mark Griffin is the anti-Trudeau. He has the track record of being a continual and passionate supporter and benefactor of pro pool. He has given to our sport in so many ways, and his recent actions only serve to remind us of his unswerving commitment to pro pool and its future. He is a man who understands that the future of pool is about both amateur and pro pool. He is a man with vision, passion, and integrity, a man in whom the players should trust.

Mark Griffin may not be the only man worthy of such trust, but he is a passionate, credible, long-term benefactor of our sport. To pro players, with due respect, all I can say is:

"Despite his appalling track record, Trudeau's credit was good enough for you. Mark Griffin has a far greater track record, so, perhaps you need to have a little faith rather than trying to financially strong arm him to the point that he might lose interest in this venture."

Joey A hit the nail on the head.
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I remember during that IPT time you (sjm)posted the most logical and insightful posts. I TOTALLY agreed with you on everything. Even the part of hoping and praying that it would somehow work, when everything else said otherwise.

I don't know Mark G. personally - I have read a lot about him. I even e-mailed him once to get some feed-back. I'm no longer an "active" player, but I let Mark know that if things were to shape up, I'd be there supporting him and his cause. The neat thing about his visions/ideas are they cover the WHOLE pool community - men, women, pro, amateur, etc. I wish I was a membr of the BCA so I could get a feel for his leadership....but sadly I don't think there is a BCA league, or ANY other Leagues/associations for that matter, anywhere in the state of Hawaii.....yes very sad for me:(

I was pretty shocked (to tell you the truth) on his response to me...like I said before, I USED to play, I no longer play anymore. He didn't care...if you care and love the game and are concerned about where the game is headed in the future - he wants to hear what you have to say. Now, my father owns his own financial planning business here in Hawaii for 30+ years now - he always told me "One of aspect a great leader must have is the ability to listen." Another thing my dad always says "The best way to judge a person is by their performance." - and apparently Mark is unscathed in that area.

Also, a million macadamia nuts to Mark for helping the players get paid!!! Who does that??? I mean seriously - who does? That is simply genuine and unique in this pool world. THAt alone, shows that he cares. If all else fails.....at least we know he truly cared and truly had the pool players best interest at heart.

Phoebe
 
phoebe choy said:
I remember during that IPT time you (sjm)posted the most logical and insightful posts. I TOTALLY agreed with you on everything. Even the part of hoping and praying that it would somehow work, when everything else said otherwise.

I don't know Mark G. personally - I have read a lot about him. I even e-mailed him once to get some feed-back. I'm no longer an "active" player, but I let Mark know that if things were to shape up, I'd be there supporting him and his cause. The neat thing about his visions/ideas are they cover the WHOLE pool community - men, women, pro, amateur, etc. I wish I was a membr of the BCA so I could get a feel for his leadership....but sadly I don't think there is a BCA league, or ANY other Leagues/associations for that matter, anywhere in the state of Hawaii.....yes very sad for me:(

I was pretty shocked (to tell you the truth) on his response to me...like I said before, I USED to play, I no longer play anymore. He didn't care...if you care and love the game and are concerned about where the game is headed in the future - he wants to hear what you have to say. Now, my father owns his own financial planning business here in Hawaii for 30+ years now - he always told me "One of aspect a great leader must have is the ability to listen." Another thing my dad always says "The best way to judge a person is by their performance." - and apparently Mark is unscathed in that area.

Also, a million macadamia nuts to Mark for helping the players get paid!!! Who does that??? I mean seriously - who does? That is simply genuine and unique in this pool world. THAt alone, shows that he cares. If all else fails.....at least we know he truly cared and truly had the pool players best interest at heart.

Phoebe
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If you know any professional pool players, pass the word on to them and tell them they need to get in touch with Mark to let him know they are behind him 100%. ;)

JoeyA
 
I do have a question, and I am not sure if this is the right thread to ask it.

When they say they are looking for 500 pro players to send their e-mail in, does that mean the BCA is looking for 500 pro players and that's it?

Is there not a 500 number and I mistakenly have picked it up somewhere in another thread, having nothing to do with this prospective tour?

Thanks in advance for the reply! :)

JAM
 
JoeyA said:
If you know any professional pool players, pass the word on to them and tell them they need to get in touch with Mark to let him know they are behind him 100%. ;)

JoeyA
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I want Pheobe to come back... Back to playing pool (professionally) and making a statement or two.

S.:)
 
JAM said:
I do have a question, and I am not sure if this is the right thread to ask it.

When they say they are looking for 500 pro players to send their e-mail in, does that mean the BCA is looking for 500 pro players and that's it?

Is there not a 500 number and I mistakenly have picked it up somewhere in another thread, having nothing to do with this prospective tour?

Thanks in advance for the reply! :)

JAM
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JAM,

Jerry F. also wants contact information for the pro pool players and I believe it is for managing of the pro rankings that now falls to the responsibility of AZBilliards. No, it has nothing to do with Mark G's request for 500 pool players.

S.
 
sunnyday said:
I want Pheobe to come back... Back to playing pool (professionally) and making a statement or two.

S.:)
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She was on her way up the ladder too. Babies...another reason there are less women players at the top. Johnnyt
 
exellent posts people

I dont know of any BCA Legues that dont use a handicap system.In my area we use the standard BCA handicap for the traveling league.The league operator uses 150% spot for the small team tournaments.Regional tournaments both 9 ball and 8 ball are not handicapped nor is the nationals.Hopefully regionals and nationals will not adopt a handicap system.I am not 1 of the stronger league players in my area but i would welcome dropping the spot altogether or reducing it greatly.Handicapping league play is meant to increase participation but i am for giving players incentive to improve and eliminating sandbagging.
 
ShootingArts said:
JAM,

I remain convinced that KT's real passion was m-o-n-e-y ! No question that the man liked pool and likes it still. What had him excited was the thought that he could make pool take off like poker and make many millions off of the IPT. I truly believe that he meant the players no harm. However, he didn't lose a minute's sleep when he hung them out to dry either! The only reason he scratched out the payments to them at all was the fear of returning to prison.

Many people turned their lives upside down and are still dealing with the repercussions of taking KT's word that he had billions and put his personal fortune behind the IPT for the first few years. Also Mark and Mike both have much tougher rows to hoe now with players, venues, suppliers, sponsors, and networks with the specter of the IPT in everyone's minds.

The internet gambling law being passed killing the IPT is purest BS in my opinion. That might have had the last impact but what KT was banking on to begin with was major sponsors and network coverage. In my opinion the great con got conned himself with Mike Sigel leading him down the garden path of how great pool could be if they just rolled back the clock to Mike's glory years. Mike S may have believed it himself but Mike's dreams were just that and he sold them to KT. The IPT was fun while it lasted but it was never more than smoke and mirrors and the players never more than window dressing just like the fancy venues and big payouts. Pool is back in the real world now and is starting from a place further in the hole than it was before the IPT existed. A few players benefited, many players lost and pool itself lost.

Now pool has to start at a real world level. No billionaire sugar daddy that never really existed, no instant jump to glory, hopefully a much slower but real climb to success as at least a second tier sport like bowling. Right now I would be extremely happy to see fifty pro players making a living off of a US tour without having to gamble or have a day job to survive. I'm not against gambling or against day jobs or owning a business, however when a top level competitor has to rely on something else to survive the sport isn't worthy of being called a professional sport in my opinion.

Hu
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I just gotta say.. If Mike had any inkling that he was leading Tru-Dough down the rose garden path, and did in fact get paid $100,000 for being King of the Hill against Loree Jon, then that is probably one of the greatest "pool hustles" of all time.

:D :D :D

Russ
 
Joey

I never got a chance to say hello to JoeyA and a big thankyou for his post. I am hoping to get out some info to the interested parties in the next few weeks.

I am still looking for contact info (name-phone number - e-mail) for the top 500-1000 players. These events will be open to men and women.

Right now, our office is just finishing up the paperwork from the BCAPL national 8-ball event that was in Vegas at the Riv. Over 7,200 players!!!!

Then off to the BCA trade show to talk to various hotshots in the billiard industry. Then I will try and get something in writing to post on AZBilliards.

Everything is still a go! Am looking for the first couple of sites to hold events. Would really like to have one this year.

I will keep evyone posted as things develope. But wanted all to know this is going forward!!!

Mark Griffin
markg@playbca.com
 
Mark Griffin said:
I never got a chance to say hello to JoeyA and a big thankyou for his post. I am hoping to get out some info to the interested parties in the next few weeks.

I am still looking for contact info (name-phone number - e-mail) for the top 500-1000 players. These events will be open to men and women.

Right now, our office is just finishing up the paperwork from the BCAPL national 8-ball event that was in Vegas at the Riv. Over 7,200 players!!!!

Then off to the BCA trade show to talk to various hotshots in the billiard industry. Then I will try and get something in writing to post on AZBilliards.

Everything is still a go! Am looking for the first couple of sites to hold events. Would really like to have one this year.

I will keep evyone posted as things develope. But wanted all to know this is going forward!!!

Mark Griffin
markg@playbca.com
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where can i find out where and when the trade show is
 
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