best all around player ever

real bartram said:
not even close


efren
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Yeah, the man with the 'girly man break'. Yeah, that's the ticket.

btw, what does top players picking Efren have to do with anything?!!! Does that make you a top player too? Duh! The top players who post on this forum have never seen some of the old players shoot. And there are many old players on this forum who have seen the old timers shoot. I would put my faith in the old guys on this forum, certaintly not you. :grin-square:
 
parvus1202 said:
Are there any other player on the planet living or dead still winning international tournament at the age of 56? Yes, there are lot of great players past and not so present, have show great skills, winning world championships, but when they reach their forties they slow down. They can't cope with younger generation's onslaught. But one 56 year old still spanking these youngster's behind.
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Irving Crane won world titles at ages 54, 55, 57, and 59.
 
Another player who deserves an "honorable mention" in this category is Danny DiLiberto! He won Titles in 4 consecutive decades and beat Efren out of a thousand playing one-pocket and beat him in a 9-ball tournament 11-1! He didn't consider himself a bank pool player, but he played all games at world class level and banked as good as anyone in one-pocket. He just never matched up playing bank pool.
 
If you watch the accu-stats match Alex vs Efren semi finals one pocket Derby city classic 2006, at the end of the march Billy Incardona says "no one has played there sport better than Efren" Freddy the beard says only Jordan comes close, followed by Billy saying "he's the best I've ever seen in my lifetime". How strong is that!
 
PoolBum said:
I think Sigel would be his only competitor then.
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Sigel and Mizerak. BUT, Luther could do it for the cash too! I'm not saying that Mike didn't gamble (Steve rarely did) but Lassiter was at his best with all the money on the line. Sorry but I can't say the same for Mike. At tournament play, it's too close to call. They were both WINNERS!
 
jay helfert said:
Sigel and Mizerak. BUT, Luther could do it for the cash too! I'm not saying that Mike didn't gamble (Steve rarely did) but Lassiter was at his best with all the money on the line. Sorry but I can't say the same for Mike. At tournament play, it's too close to call. They were both WINNERS!
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Jay, how would you rank those three players individually against each other in both 9-ball and straight pool? (tournament play only)
 
greyghost said:
uhhhh NEGATIVE.......

that award would go to HAROLD WORST
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I don't know. I'm almost thinking that Shorty looks better here.

[I'm assuming that "Shorty" is the short guy :D ]

I don't think either one would stand up well to today's 9-ball competition.

I have to say, in fitting with the phrase "all around," that Efren Reyes is definitely the best I'VE ever watched. The guy can do it all at (more or less) the pinnacle of perfection.

Although I will say, when his head is right, that Earl Strickland can pocket balls and get fine position over long distances better than anyone else I've ever seen play (9-ball). I couldn't, in good conscience, give Earl the "all around" title.
 
Best All around player

snarzberry said:
I think the best all-around cue sport player ever is Walter Lindrum.

Many of you probably haven't heard of him before but he was the greatest billiards player ever. He has the highest ever break, over 4000, which consisted of approx. 1900 consecutive scoring shots.

I started out playing snooker - the same type of table used in billiards - but now play 9 ball pretty much exclusively. But I've played a bit of billiards in my time and know how difficult it is.

Check out this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXEW4Wzh5Ps it's from the 30's so it's black and white, but from 0:40 to 2:20 is a display of some the most brilliant cuemanship you will ever see.

The nursery cannon sequence is nothing short of genius, and if you think it looks easy then give it a try some time! ;) In this clip he takes a nursery cannon sequence around a corner pocket, something I've never seen done live although I knew he was able to do it from his incredibly high breaks. To call doing that difficult would be the understatement of the century! :wink:
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Walter was probably the best at 1 game there ever was...he single handedly destroyed the game of English Billiards because he was so much better than everyone there was no competition. He was the reason Joe Davis started playing snooker. When he was 12 years old HW Stevenson the reigning champion went on a worldwide tour and when he got to australia he played Walter and promptly got his brains beat in. Then the poor guy went to the Phillipines and played several people and lost to all of them . He went home and never played again.
 
Blackball75 said:
Yup, he came to my mind, too. But few people under 60 will have heard about English Billiards, sadly. Wonder how he played pool.
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English Billiards consisted of many shots, billiards, cannons in offs etc.
On a 6x12 snooker table Walter shot the lights out pocketing balls. I don't remember him entering any other contests than English Billiards though.
I would say he was also a top player at snooker and 3 cushion only be cause those are the shots that make up the English Billiards game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe9dH3wgU00 heres a video of Walter making in offs but he shot the balls in like a machine also.
He made straight rail billiards so fast in tournaments that it took 2 scorekeepers to keep score correctly for him.
His book "Billiards" by Walter Lindrum is one of the most interesting books about a pool player i ever read.
 
jay helfert said:
My error, thanks! I would put him in my second ten, because his One Pocket game was suspect and many players banked better than him. Cutting the balls was another matter entirely. No one ever sliced balls in better than Luther! If you limited the games to 9-Ball and Straight Pool, Lassiter may have been the best of all time. I don't know why he never learned to play high speed One Pocket. It was the second most popular gambling game, even during his era. Today even a player with the skills of Johnny Archer may refuse to play One Pocket. Some players just don't like the game. My suspicion is there is too much thinking and creativity that goes into it. It can be baffling, even for a good player.
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Funny story I heard of a conversation between 2 top players.
Nick is playing a young player that shoots the lights out cheap nine ball and a year later the kid beats Nick and Mike in several tournaments. Then Nick starts playing the same kid some cheap games of straight pool and a year later the kid is beating both of them at straight pool. One day Mike screams at Nick "I suppose now you will win $500.00 off him playing One Pocket and we won't be able to beat him at anything."
Mike Sigel talking to Nick Varner about Johnny Archer.

By the Way , I must be losing it, I just posted 3 times in a row in the same thread ....thats goofy.
 
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jay helfert said:
Sigel and Mizerak. BUT, Luther could do it for the cash too! I'm not saying that Mike didn't gamble (Steve rarely did) but Lassiter was at his best with all the money on the line. Sorry but I can't say the same for Mike. At tournament play, it's too close to call. They were both WINNERS!
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As a teenager Sigel tool Mizerak to the cleaners in 9 ball for money. Back then, Sigel "was 85 pounds in soaking wet clothes".
 
too many unqualified responses here, I'll speak for the 80's onwards

Ronnie O Sullivan is the man

nobody has ever tortured the best in the world at their sport like he has

if you had an all round championship today, carom, pool, snooker, a motivated Ronnie would win by a wide margin

it's not even close really, if you doubt that, you lack experience both playing and watching carom and snooker at the high levels

Efren on his best day loses bad and that's as good as it gets for pool players
 
When I consider skill in so many games I must also consider the player's attitude and class and what a player gives to the sport or has given. So like the thread says Best All Around. My vote must go to Nick Varner.
 
I agree Jay . . .

jay helfert said:
Sigel and Mizerak. BUT, Luther could do it for the cash too! I'm not saying that Mike didn't gamble (Steve rarely did) but Lassiter was at his best with all the money on the line. Sorry but I can't say the same for Mike. At tournament play, it's too close to call. They were both WINNERS!
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The only other guy I'd consider throwing in the ring against Lassiter for cash would be Buddy "The Rifleman" Hall . . . he was tough when the chips were down.
 

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Well most of you are not old enought but I have seen them all.

The best player period was Eddy Taylor. He plaid 9 ball, banks, one pocket, one handed and did I mention straight pool. After a few days practice at straight he beat everyone.

I once watched him play Beenie 50-37. He robbed him. Miz had just won the world's straight pool championship and lost with the same game.

If Eddy tried to get in a ring game everyone groaned and quit.

I traveled with him on the road for a year and the only reason was that no one, and I mean no one would play him anything even. He just found a way to win at all games. Not always pretty but win he did.

Those of you that never got to see him in his prime really missed something.

Bill Stroud
 
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