Best Cue Sport Player of All Time

Cuemen

Fast Lenny said:
Hoppe couldnt play pocket billiards.
1.Mosconi
2.Greenleaf
3.Reyes
4.Mizerak
5.Lassiter
I know 4 out of the 5 were straight pool terrors but they could play all games well when it came to pocket billiards,let them play 9 ball or 1 pocket,8 and outs along with runouts all day and all night.
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I asked Luther Lassiter his pick of all time pool players and he said he had never seen a better player than Ralph Greenleaf. He said Ralph would shoot wing shots (moving object ball about 6 inches from the rail into the opposite corner) on a tight 5x10 table and never miss. He also said Mosconi couldn't have touched Ralph before the bottle took him.
 
freddy the beard said:
If you think Effy was not a great all-around billiard player, consider this: The great champion, Sang Lee could only beat Efren playing 3 cushion! He couldnt win playing straight rail, balkline, or 1 cushion or 2 cushion billiards. Sang Lee, a man with a lot of gamble, tried Efren these games unsuccessfully at Chris's Billiards in Chicago when they were both living there. My dream game is Efren playing 1pocket with Harold Worst.

the Beard
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I am very glad you brought this up. I have heard Incardona, DiLiberto, and a few other commentators on Accustats mention that Efren is -and I quote- "undoubtedly the best balkline player in the world". I mentioned this a while back and a few people told me the name of someone else, and that Efren isn't even close to being one of the best. I took their word, but now after what you said, I guess Cardone etc. are right.
 
Javenly "Youngblood" Washington

jay helfert said:
I'd like to hear more about Youngblood Washington. and you knew him Freddie. I never saw him play. At least not that I know of.
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Javenly "Youngblood" Washington from Chicago's South Side, the original Youngblood. He was one of the all-time great bank-pool players. Besides his fabulous pool skills, 'Blood had some mental problems. He was periodically institutionalized at a mental center in Chicago. His backers used to help him get over the wall at Manteno's mental institution to escape and go to the West Side to play John "Cannonball Lefty" Chapman bank pool. 'Blood would still have the hospital bracelet on his wrist. Those sessions would bring sweators in from everywhere. The poolroom would be packed wall-to-wall. When the session was over, the backers would take him back to the hospital and hoist him back over the wall to be recommitted.

Blood is still alive today in a nursing home. He got 9 to 8 playing Eddie Taylor bank pool in Tenn. and won. The only man to ever spot him. Taylor also spotted Cannonball 8 to 7 in those days. Even with the disparity of the spot,
Taylor rated Chapman as a hair better banker. I rate them dead even. Lefty banked with english but Blood used dead-center ball. I was deathly afraid of Blood but somehow had great success with Cannonball.
Blood spotted Bugs 10 to 8 up until Bugs was nearly 30 yrs old.

the Beard
 
cuetechasaurus said:
I am very glad you brought this up. I have heard Incardona, DiLiberto, and a few other commentators on Accustats mention that Efren is -and I quote- "undoubtedly the best balkline player in the world". I mentioned this a while back and a few people told me the name of someone else, and that Efren isn't even close to being one of the best. I took their word, but now after what you said, I guess Cardone etc. are right.
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Incardona and DiLiberto don't know that much about the carom players so you could interpret their comments to be "best balkline-playing pool player in the world". Basically Efren would have no chance in the long run against carom experts like Frederic Caudron in any balkline, straight or 1-cushion game. Also, Efren doesn't have the tournament experience in these games that Caudron has (or Martin Horn, Peter DeBacker, etc).
 
jay helfert said:
Who's your grandfather? I started out in '61 as a teenager.
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Jay. A word from the wise. Don't believe everything your parents tell you. On the plus side it means you're probably much younger than you think.

Boro Nut
 
Fast Lenny said:
Hoppe couldnt play pocket billiards.


In Wilie Hoppe's first book published in 1941, he mentions having run 246 balls in an exhibition match with another Brunswick sponsored pro. The article recaps when a local Indian Chief offered Willie a bet to play his son for $10,000.00. Willie Hoppe never bet on his own game, but ran the 246 balls in an exhibition match. After his run out, the Indians were no where to be found. They slyly slipped out while Willie was in the midst of his 200 + run out. My point, I think Willie knew how to play pocket billiards!

Cross Side Larry

"Learn from the best, and beat the rest"
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CrossSideLarry said:
... In Wilie Hoppe's first book published in 1941, he mentions having run 246 balls in an exhibition match with another Brunswick sponsored pro. ...
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He probably ran 246 points in balkline, not 246 balls in pocket billiards. He was almost certainly playing 18.2, not to be confused with 14.1 which is a pocket billiards game.
 
well, torborjm bloomdahl who is the very best 3 cushion billiard player of all time, and plays a hell of a pool game as well, said "efren reyes is the greatest all around player that ever lived" now, when bloomdahl say's that, you gotta listen, i'll take efren reyes for the greatest all around player.
 
George Rood

I never saw any of these three play each other, probably because they were old friends and roadies. By the way, when Lassiter was asked who was the best 9-Ball player he ever played, his response was George Rood. George is still alive and was in Derby City this year and played in the Three Cushion at the tender age of 94.

George Rood was in my bracket in the three cushion tournament in Derby City. He said he hadn't played three cushion in 50 years, and although he moved slowly he still had a beautiful, economical stroke. It was a pleasure to share the table with him.
 
8-ball bernie said:
well, torborjm bloomdahl who is the very best 3 cushion billiard player of all time, and plays a hell of a pool game as well, said "efren reyes is the greatest all around player that ever lived" now, when bloomdahl say's that, you gotta listen, i'll take efren reyes for the greatest all around player.
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What does Bloomdahl know about Worst, Lassiter, Greenleaf or Rags? Zero!
 
A fundamental oversight...

This is a great discussion.

However...

1) Consider that Efren hasn't spent 20+ years playing 3-cushion. Or snooker.

2) Ronnie O' Sullivan hasn't spent 20+ years playing American pool (9-ball/8-ball/1-pocket etc...). Or 3-cushion billiards.

3) Torborjm Bloomdahl hasn't spent... etc, etc. You get the idea...

In my opinion, the 3 players above, are the greatest in their field. Of all time.

As was previously posted, in order to rate each player you also have to take into account the standard of current competition which leads us to rate our champions thus...

This is purely a theory and open to discussion:

Let's take the 2nd best (open to debate) of each era...

1) Earl Strickland vs Luther Lassiter (14.1)

2) Steven Hendry vs Walter Lindrum (snooker)

3) Semih Sayginer vs ??? (sorry, I don't know who this would be).

So who win win in each? I'll bet that the modern era player wouldn't have too much trouble.

The standard of competition (as well as the number of players) is hugely better than 50 years ago. Consider this discussion in 50 years time? If we're still here...

To discuss that Efren is better than Willie, or Ronnie is better than Joe is a fruitless discussion. Why not enjoy watching the best in the world right now? I've seen Efren Reyes play pool shots that prove, without question, he is a level above everybody else right now.

Ronnie O'Sullivan similarly, has a talent for snooker that will take years, if not decades to excel.

Can Ronnie play pool? Can Efren play snooker? Dunno. Can Bloomdahl play either? Dunno.

Who cares?

Not me. I'm a decent pool player, but a rotten guitarist!

Just my thoughts.

BS
 
pool----reyes golf----tiger basketball---jorden baseball----ty cobb ping pong----forrest gump!!!!!!!!
 
Blue_Suede said:
This is a great discussion.

However...

1) Consider that Efren hasn't spent 20+ years playing 3-cushion. Or snooker.

2) Ronnie O' Sullivan hasn't spent 20+ years playing American pool (9-ball/8-ball/1-pocket etc...). Or 3-cushion billiards.

3) Torborjm Bloomdahl hasn't spent... etc, etc. You get the idea...

In my opinion, the 3 players above, are the greatest in their field. Of all time.

As was previously posted, in order to rate each player you also have to take into account the standard of current competition which leads us to rate our champions thus...

This is purely a theory and open to discussion:

Let's take the 2nd best (open to debate) of each era...

1) Earl Strickland vs Luther Lassiter (14.1)

2) Steven Hendry vs Walter Lindrum (snooker)

3) Semih Sayginer vs ??? (sorry, I don't know who this would be).

So who win win in each? I'll bet that the modern era player wouldn't have too much trouble.

The standard of competition (as well as the number of players) is hugely better than 50 years ago. Consider this discussion in 50 years time? If we're still here...

To discuss that Efren is better than Willie, or Ronnie is better than Joe is a fruitless discussion. Why not enjoy watching the best in the world right now? I've seen Efren Reyes play pool shots that prove, without question, he is a level above everybody else right now.

Ronnie O'Sullivan similarly, has a talent for snooker that will take years, if not decades to excel.

Can Ronnie play pool? Can Efren play snooker? Dunno. Can Bloomdahl play either? Dunno.

Who cares?

Not me. I'm a decent pool player, but a rotten guitarist!

Just my thoughts.

BS
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My opinon but if Earl played Wimpy straight pool in their prime Earl would have no shot unless he caught a gear. Grandpa told me Wimpy was a great 14.1 player his patterns were great. Worst and my grandfather shot there way out of trouble Wimpy did not get into trouble.
 
I think it is possible to gauge the best all round cueist/player if not coming up with a definative answer. So far this discussion hasn't really contained much structure or guidlines. There are a whole host of different disciplines, and I doubt any player has played them all to a high level, the following spring to mind:

Snooker
English Billiards
Russian Billiards
3 Cushion
UK 8 Ball
American 8 Ball
9 Ball
10 Ball
1 Pocket
Banks
Straight Pool
Rotation


Of course many of these games are not played globally, also some don't really have a tour or a history of large events.

Let's take a players BEST 5 EVENTS and rate them on a scale of 1 to 10 on what they have acheived in each discipline. Lets say 10 = has acheived world Champion or equiv, and obviously 0 = no success at all.


I'll start with Efren
  • 10 - 8 Ball
  • 10 - 9 Ball
  • 10 - 1 Pocketl
  • 10 - Rotation
  • 4 - Snooker (based on his relatively low level Asian games success)

I assume he's won an equiv world title at rotation even if its only played in the phillipines, he could prob post decent scores in straight pool and a few others too!

Other names that spring to mind would be Marlon, Ralf, Varner?, Hall?, Ortman?, but need help! Its clear to see that Quinten wouldnt get close to Efren but would still post a decent score. Hohmann of course is making a strong case with his straight pool and 9 ball world titles and his recent 8 ball performances but would still fall short of the magician!
 
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Alex Pagaulayan should get some props here also, he's one a world pool
title and Canadian National Snooker title.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of another player today who has
won a world title in one discipline and a national tite in another.
 
TheOne said:
Snooker
English Billiards
Russian Billiards
3 Cushion
UK 8 Ball
American 8 Ball
9 Ball
10 Ball
1 Pocket
Banks
Straight Pool
Rotation

names that spring to mind would be Marlon, Ralf, Varner?, Hall?, Ortman?, but need help!
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Will help with Nick Varner

Straight Pool - World Champion
Eight Ball - World Champion
Nine Ball - World Champion
One Pocket - World Champion

Don't know if he's won a world championship in any other discipline, but Varner rates as one of the greatest all-around players ever......but, he's no Efren.
 
stick8 said:
pool----reyes golf----tiger basketball---jorden baseball----ty cobb ping pong----forrest gump!!!!!!!!
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Ther only one I would argue about is Forrest Gump. Grady beat me out of $20 back in about 78 and I'm still mad about it.
 
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