Best Cushions for my Gold Crown

joeysid

Registered
Hi all....

I'm getting new cushions for my GC....

What are the best ones out there? I want to make the table the best it can be...

Do I want the Diamond Black K55 or the Intercontinental K55?

Is there better?
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Brunswick Superspeed don't play so well on a Gold Crown I
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
Brunswick Superspeed don't play so well on a Gold Crown I

Hey Pt109,

Have never heard any complaints, but, I am interested to hear what your opinion is? Can you give us specific details? Do you have a table with them on it or have you had?
Thanks

Trent from Toledo
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hey Pt109,

Have never heard any complaints, but, I am interested to hear what your opinion is? Can you give us specific details? Do you have a table with them on it or have you had?
Thanks

Trent from Toledo

We got four GC Ones at our place...three with the original rubber, NOT Superspeed...
...they still play pretty good....maybe lost half a length.

The other one is our action table, other than some Diamonds....
...third set of Superspeed in just a few years....still doesn't play right.
I was told that the original rubber on the Ones was not Superspeed....
..and the new rubber doesn't quite fit.

Next time, we'll probably have to do the wood.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
I have a GC II 15 years ago I went with super-speeds for a cushion replacement. The original cushions on the table were the Monarch cushions. Come to find out they have a different profile than super-speeds. The subrails were not modified and the table played slow.

If you have a GCI or GCII you will need to do sub rail modifications to make the super-speeds play the best they can. I believe you are fine with with a simple cushion swap-out for a GC III or higher.

I currently have Artemis IC's on my table when RKC redid my table (including subrail mods) over 10 years ago and I love the way it plays.
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
We got four GC Ones at our place...three with the original rubber, NOT Superspeed...
...they still play pretty good....maybe lost half a length.

The other one is our action table, other than some Diamonds....
...third set of Superspeed in just a few years....still doesn't play right.
I was told that the original rubber on the Ones was not Superspeed....
..and the new rubber doesn't quite fit.

Next time, we'll probably have to do the wood.

So no actual details on what "plays right?" Not trying to be difficult, but, wondering what the details about what does not play right. They originally came with Monarch Superspeed's like Tony said.

As for the sub-mod:. I am just trying to get together some hard and quantifiable facts about this. Do the tables bank short? are you getting less than 4 rails length wise? Who installed the cushions? what is the cushion nose height? were the pocket angles changed to 141 corners and 102 sides? 60 durometer neoprene facings?

More input would be great. Thanks

Trent from Toledo
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
So no actual details on what "plays right?" Not trying to be difficult, but, wondering what the details about what does not play right. They originally came with Monarch Superspeed's like Tony said.

As for the sub-mod:. I am just trying to get together some hard and quantifiable facts about this. Do the tables bank short? are you getting less than 4 rails length wise? Who installed the cushions? what is the cushion nose height? were the pocket angles changed to 141 corners and 102 sides? 60 durometer neoprene facings?

More input would be great. Thanks

Trent from Toledo

Trent, you’re talking to a pool player here...I have a different way of looking at how a table
plays....none of your technical knowledge.
It’s a bit dead and some banks are short...and in the spring time the banks will go airborne
with a bit of speed.....about one length slow when laggging.
I vaguely remember the thread that Tony in MD and BlackBalled mentioned.....
...I feel the contact point on the ball is a bit low.

Alex and I do a prop bet once in a while...small money....I am a way up on him on this
table at straight pool....I talked him into trying it on a Diamond...4.75 pockets....
...he ran 168 his first try.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Talk to Mark Gregory or RKC they will explain what the issues are with the subrails for a GC I and GC II when installing super-speeds, or Artemis cushions for that matter.

Sorry I cannot be any further use, but it was 15 years ago. I am lucky if I remember what I did yesterday.

I am sure there is an old post or two about all of this that I did when Glenn redid my table.


So no actual details on what "plays right?" Not trying to be difficult, but, wondering what the details about what does not play right. They originally came with Monarch Superspeed's like Tony said.

As for the sub-mod:. I am just trying to get together some hard and quantifiable facts about this. Do the tables bank short? are you getting less than 4 rails length wise? Who installed the cushions? what is the cushion nose height? were the pocket angles changed to 141 corners and 102 sides? 60 durometer neoprene facings?

More input would be great. Thanks

Trent from Toledo
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have never had anyone complain about current
Superspeeds on GC 1's, Anniversary or Centennials.
No one has ever posted any fact that actually quantifies
the alleged "difference". Yes it changes the playing
surface a little bit( 1/4" in each direction because the
cushions are 1/8" bigger across the top), but, as long
as the nose height is 1- 7/16" , they play great. I am not
sold that changing the bevel by 1 degree one way or the
other, is going to make the table play that much better.
Again, all I hear is some people say they play better, but, no facts.

I have had a couple clients that have wanted the
sub rail mod and one of them I play on his Centennial
a couple times a year. I really can't tell the difference
between his table and others with no sub mod:They all play good.

If you are getting 4 rails or more length wise and
they bank true, these are quantifiable facts.

I also have played on a GC4 with sub mod and
think it played just like a GC4 should. only thing
I could quantify is that the pockets rattled balls
like an Olhausen! I was not impressed at all. The guy
spent around $2000.00 and to me was a total waste of
money. Anyone who would cut off the subrails on a
gc4 5 or 6 is simply wasting good playing rails.

Sub rail extension's are definitely a good modification
and can be proven factually: the pocket being reduced properly
play far superior than shimmed pockets!

To each their own of course. Unless the rails
are chewed up in the jaws/ cloth relief stapled
out and the subrails need to be REPLACED, I do
not recommend the sub mod. I explain it to each
and every customer and let them decide.

Just my $0.02 :)

Trent from Toledo
 

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Afficionado
Silver Member
I have a GC1 and approx 10 to 15 years ago the original cushions finally gave out so I had to replace and the replacement super speeds at that time only lasted a year before getting hard spots I replaced them again and sure enough more hard spots on this set as well. After doing some checking I was told that the quality had gone way down on the rubber being used as they were being made for Brunswick in China very poor quality compared to Originals.

After waiting a couple years I was lucky to get rkc to come and Cobracize my table which included the subrail mods and new Artemis IC cushions and I couldn't be happier with how my table now plays

I have confidence that the German made Artemis rubber will not fail like the old super speed Chinese ones did (twice).

I've heard rkc and now Trent recommending the super speeds so it must be that they fixed the problem with those poor quality ones from 15 years ago

If I was restoring another Gold Crown 1, though, I would definitely go with the Artemis cushions. For me, made in Germany is always going to win over made in China

Best,
Brian kc
 

GoldCrown

Be Creative...play 1P
Silver Member
I've heard rkc and now Trent recommending the super speeds so it must be that they fixed the problem with those poor quality ones from 15 years ago


Best,
Brian kc

I hope this is the case. Bought a GC4 in 1998. The cushions turned into stone before their time. Replaced with other than SSpeeds. When they get replaced again I would go with Trent's suggestions.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
I suppose the QC of the superspeeds has improved....or they have changed manufacturing processes because now both RKC and Mark G. swear by them.

For me, the Artimis cushions have played the same for going on 10 years, so why would I like to change.

Also since you have a GCIII you have a simple cushion swap, with no subrail mod required.

I hope this is the case. Bought a GC4 in 1998. The cushions turned into stone before their time. Replaced with other than SSpeeds. When they get replaced again I would go with Trent's suggestions.
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have heard of the Era of bad Brunswick rubber
and I pray that never happens again!
Beyond cushion failure of that nature,
I think cushion installation/ cloth installation
error is more to blame on "playability" issues.

I have heard from 3 of 4 mechanics that
I consider to be the "best" that they mount the
Artemis canvas side down! I have not tried it yet,
but, I sure am interested!

As for Brunswick Superspeeds on older GCs, Anniversary's
and Centennial's it comes down to this to me: If the
cushion nose height is 1-7/16": getting at least 4 lengths of
the table back and forth, the ball is not hopping or
playing too fast off the rails, the ball is not "biting" under
the rail, banks are not coming up short or long and applied
english is holding correctly off the rail, the cushion
is playing properly. These are things that can be
done to test the rails. Their is the final variable of
NEW CLOTH, so these have to be tested again
after the cloth "breaks in" and if the table passes
these tests, in my opinion the cushions are playing correctly.

These are things I have learned and I think that
most who know how to work on tables and play
on them can agree on. I am not claiming I "know it all"
or anything like that. I hope that others will chime in and
provide their experiences in detail to help us all
understand more.

I am simply tired of hearing unsubstantiated claims saying
this or that. In college I learned that you must PROVE your
w orkand not just make claims. Anyone who is a
professional and is making claims about their work
needs to be able to prove what they are claiming:
it is called having CREDIBILITY!

Examples:
Brunswick Billiards has influenced every pool
table manufacturer in the WORLD, that shows
they are credible. On a mechanics level: RKC
changing the red label Diamond table rails to Blue
Label shows credibility in the pool table mechanic world.

Just my $0.02 from my experience working on
these old & new Brunswick's and old and new Diamond's.

Trent from Toledo

Here is a Brunswick SuperSpeed Cushion mounted on a GC1 Subrail:

 
Last edited:

Poolhall60561

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Had my GC1 recovered a year ago. I believe the superspeed are original with 1 rail repaired with a k66.

DFF5EF70-7B00-4F05-877B-26FC54D7CEE7.jpeg

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