Best player ever for the cash?

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
Johnny Archer was the best money player I ever saw when he was in his prime. A tournament tour director once said Johnny was the favorite to bet on in any money match he was in. He said Johnny was the best at matching up he had ever seen.
I would agree except that I saw him lose 30K to Francisco Galindo at Gold Ball billiards in San Bernardino California in the early 90's. He was giving Francisco the 8 ball playing 9 ball races for 10K.

Jaden
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I would agree except that I saw him lose 30K to Francisco Galindo at Gold Ball billiards in San Bernardino California in the early 90's. He was giving Francisco the 8 ball playing 9 ball races for 10K.

Jaden
No body wins every match up. The directors point was that if you bet on Johnny in every match that you will be winner in the long run.
 
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HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We used to have an old country boy in our pool hall nicknamed “Bull”.

He was the best $2 money player in the world.

Jack it up much above that and his speed decreased dramatically.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
We are talking about money players but there is a big difference between money players that play with their own money and others with the backers money.
I would like to know about the best players who bet with their own money.
Maybe Jay can answer my question.
Jose Parica bet his own dough when he had it....he didn’t give a lot of credit to those that never bet their own.
Alex felt that Jose was the best money player out of the Philippines.
...and Alex is pretty good at betting his own also...and so is Shane...often games are made for them so the money is put up....but they can both bet their own.
 
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measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I held up for the cash today.
Beat one guy for $40
Beat another guy for $50
Not a bad day for an old man that plays once a week.
These youngens think they can just take off an old guy.LOL
They dont know who I am.
 

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bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I held up for the cash today.
Beat one guy for $40
Beat another guy for $50
Not a bad day for an old man that plays once a week.
These youngens think they can just take off an old guy.LOL
They dont know who I am.
We don't know if you are stealing or not 😱😂😂
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think that was lost on a few people.
My question wasn't who won the most money or who beat who it was who do you think was the best at holding their speed for big money.
Simple question that requires only a name not a story.
This crowd is tough sometimes.:)
It's far from being a simple question. The issue with trying to answer this question is that those answering are required to know a players' speed. You can only gauge a players' speed by watching them play or looking at data. If by "speed" we are talking "A game" then nobody ever hits their top speed in every round of a tournament or every time they play for money. The skill, with money games, is knowing when you are likely to hold your speed and your opponent isn't, and maximising your opportunity at that point in time. It's gambling and there is an art to it.

Pre-planned, high profile races to 100, where both players are getting paid to reduce the hit that one of them will take and also become more marketable, hardly count as an answer to the original question. If I had to offer an answer it would be a categorical "we will never know, and he probably either ended up broke (or at least not a man of means) or was independently wealthy from non gambling activities". None of which really matters because he might still have had a happy life.
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's far from being a simple question. The issue with trying to answer this question is that those answering are required to know a players' speed. You can only gauge a players' speed by watching them play or looking at data. If by "speed" we are talking "A game" then nobody ever hits their top speed in every round of a tournament or every time they play for money. The skill, with money games, is knowing when you are likely to hold your speed and your opponent isn't, and maximising your opportunity at that point in time. It's gambling and there is an art to it.

Pre-planned, high profile races to 100, where both players are getting paid to reduce the hit that one of them will take and also become more marketable, hardly count as an answer to the original question. If I had to offer an answer it would be a categorical "we will never know, and he probably either ended up broke (or at least not a man of means) or was independently wealthy from non gambling activities". None of which really matters because he might still have had a happy life.
Yeah it is a simple question.
You have $50K to back one player against anyone that ever played who is your horse?
Just pick a name, simple.
 

CanadianGuy

Active member
this thread inspired me to read the Cornbread bio, nothing in that book suggests to me he was anywhere close to any of the top guys in his day
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We used to have an old country boy in our pool hall nicknamed “Bull”.

He was the best $2 money player in the world.

Jack it up much above that and his speed decreased dramatically.
$2 Bob had the se problems in the 80’s. That’s why he got his nickname. He could play up to $100 sets then the wheels came off.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah it is a simple question.
You have $50K to back one player against anyone that ever played who is your horse?
Just pick a name, simple.
Strange justification. You've gone from a general question to a specific situation that resembles in no way the original question.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
this thread inspired me to read the Cornbread bio, nothing in that book suggests to me he was anywhere close to any of the top guys in his day
Red was kind of an earlier edition of Keith. He may not have been the best player (but he was damn close), but he scared all the players who may have been a bit better. Red used to like to hit a long nine ball shot in at 100 mph just to intimidate his opponent, and I saw him shoot shots like that in high dollar matches. It shocked me and I was just a spectator. He might laugh before he shot it and say something like "take a dose of that" after he fired it in. He was probably the most confident pool playing gambler I ever saw. Later on along came Keith who would throw one liners to the crowd while making one circus shot after another. He treated big money matches as an opportunity to show off and have fun at the same time. If you just walked in and had no idea how much they were betting, you would think he was just fooling around for a couple of bucks.

I remember one time at the Stardust in Vegas when Mizerak was like the U.S. Open Straight Pool champ four years in a row. He was in his prime and no one could touch the Miz at Straight Pool. So he walks in the practice room full of top players and issues a bold challenge to anyone in the room to play 200 points of Straight Pool for $200. No one says a word, until Red pipes up. This challenge obviously pissed him off, and he shouts out to Mizerak that he will play him for a $1,000! Mizerak is a little shocked by this and says nothing for a moment. Then Red says "I'll play you even, 50 points for a thousand!" Mizerak is struck dumb and stumbles for an answer. Red reaches in his pocket and pulls out a big handful of change and throws it at him. He then utters a defamatory choice of words at the best Straight Pool player alive and tells him to get the Hell out of here. The Miz looks around and then slowly walks out, his tail between his legs. Do not mess with Cornbread Red!!
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Red was kind of an earlier edition of Keith. He may not have been the best player (but he was damn close), but he scared all the players who may have been a bit better. Red used to like to hit a long nine ball shot in at 100 mph just to intimidate his opponent, and I saw him shoot shots like that in high dollar matches. It shocked me and I was just a spectator. He might laugh before he shot it and say something like "take a dose of that" after he fired it in. He was probably the most confident pool playing gambler I ever saw. Later on along came Keith who would throw one liners to the crowd while making one circus shot after another. He treated big money matches as an opportunity to show off and have fun at the same time. If you just walked in and had no idea how much they were betting, you would think he was just fooling around for a couple of bucks.
Hey Jay, i never got to see Cole play but wasn't he pretty brutal for the cash??
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hey Jay, i never got to see Cole play but wasn't he pretty brutal for the cash??
He was ultra cocky as well. Cole could out talk and out hustle the best of the East Coast hustlers, whose style was all high pressure and intimidation. Cole would get right in their face and say, "Come on! Get up there and play!" He had no fear of anyone and let you know it. Cole won matches before he ever hit a ball. In Cole's prime (18 to maybe 27 or 28) he thought nothing of getting on a plane by himself and flying across the country to take on some guy who was beating up on everyone. He earned his reputation as a world beater. Only the very best of that era (guys like Billy Incardona, Cornbread, Ed Kelly, Richie Florence, Wade Crane, Buddy, Toby Sweet and Bernie Schwartz) could hang with him. Cole cut his teeth gambling with Denny Searcy in the Bay area, when Denny was pretty much unbeatable. Throw in Greg Stevens and there you have the very best money players of that era. Johnny Ervolino was the best Straight Pool player for the cash, not Mizerak. And Ronnie was the best at One Pocket of course. Most of the big money games back then were all contested at 9-Ball or Ten Ball.
 
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