Best player ever for the cash?

Mich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My interpretation of this post is that it does not ask for who matched up best, for the art of game making is an entirely different question. I also feel it does not ask who made the most money gambling at pool, for that is also another question. I believe the question posed is who was best at playing at the highest possible level and maintaining that level in a big action match.

Strong vote for Jose Parica here, who handled the pressure of big action better than any player I've ever watched. Nobody could stay with Parica in ten ahead or twenty ahead races. He was just too tough and was able to sustain his highest level for hours and hours when he was at his best, which means the 1990's.
Agree. Didn't @jay helfert once post that Parica tortured the top pros in $$ action matches.
 

Scratch85

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don’t think this name has been mentioned yet but I have heard Vernon Elliott’s name thrown around when heralding great cash players. He mostly stayed regional (Midwest) but I have heard countless stories about his big take downs He also had a few prop bet shots, when the action was slow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Masayoshi

Fusenshou no Masa
Silver Member
If Orcullo is in the discussion, surely Yang has to be mentioned as well considering he got there against Dennis in his home court twice.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sports filters are a scientific nightmare. Sure, nobody needed CERN to identify the lone Efren but I think the most you can claim about sharks is they sharks.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
As for Parica , I heard CJ followed him around and used him as his personal ATM😉
That was Efren, not Parica. NO ONE wanted Jose! He cured them all for about twenty years. Before he came along Buddy was the most feared player for the cash. I'd rank Francisco right behind Parica and ahead of Efren playing Nine or Ten Ball. Efren ruled in One Pocket and Rotation, the two toughest games. When I was starting out Lassiter had been The Man for a long time, until Worst came along. I'd put Harold on the same echelon as Parica, even if it was only for a brief period of time. There were many other great money players like Nick, Hopkins, Wade Crane and little Toby. Guys like Greg Stevens needed artificial help to keep going. Keith likewise. He could be fantastic one day and out of sorts another. Denny Searcy is one more who put fear in everybody, including Sigel and Hubbard. That's kind of my top ten in order. Jack Cooney is a special case. He just knew how to win more money than anyone else, and didn't need to beat the best players to do it.

As far as today is concerned, I've seen Dennis give up the nuts and win too many times. I truly think he can still grind with anyone and get there, playing dead even. Lock him in a room with Filler, Gorst and Shane and Dennis might be the last man standing.
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
no the best players are the ones that play for the cash that is at their highest amount before they choke and hold on.

everyone and i mean everyone has a point where the bet is high enough that they choke some amount.

so those that play regularly for a high amount you may think play well for the cash but you get desensitized at whatever stakes you normally play for. when its gets enough over that you choke.

if you havent bet real high for your own money and played over your confidence level you wont understand at all.

pug pearson, amarillo slim, jack perkins are three short stop players that you could
be sure they would not dog it for any amount that they bet. and when they played the window was open .
There is no bet too high for Dennis Orcollo! You can believe that. If he had a million, he'd play for a million! Keith was one more that had no limit on what he would play for. The bigger the bet the more he liked it, and the greater his advantage was. A couple of others in that category where the size of the bet had little effect on them; Ronnie Allen, Denny Searcy and Bugs. I only saw James (Walden) play a couple of times but he was right on top as a cash game killer for several years. I watched his epic 100K match with Jack Cooney and he was awesome.
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
Not every great money player is nessasaraly a champion. There were and still are high rollers who if a champion matched up and got out of line with the spot he would get taken off.

These guys usually are betting their own money as well. Not often the case with the champions. Their fat bankrolls are very tempting but they are not suckers but stand up players.
 

manopr350

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We are talking about money players but there is a big difference between money players that play with their own money and others with the backers money.
I would like to know about the best players who bet with their own money.
Maybe Jay can answer my question.
 

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That was Efren, not Parica. NO ONE wanted Jose! He cured them all for about twenty years. Before he came along Buddy was the most feared player for the cash. I'd rank Francisco right behind Parica and ahead of Efren playing Nine or Ten Ball. Efren ruled in One Pocket and Rotation, the two toughest games. When I was starting out Lassiter had been The Man for a long time, until Worst came along. I'd put Harold on the same echelon as Parica, even if it was only for a brief period of time. There were many other great money players like Nick, Hopkins, Wade Crane and little Toby. Guys like Greg Stevens needed artificial help to keep going. Keith likewise. He could be fantastic one day and out of sorts another. Denny Searcy is one more who put fear in everybody, including Sigel and Hubbard. That's kind of my top ten in order. Jack Cooney is a special case. He just knew how to win more money than anyone else, and didn't need to beat the best players to do it.

As far as today is concerned, I've seen Dennis give up the nuts and win too many times. I truly think he can still grind with anyone and get there, playing dead even. Lock him in a room with Filler, Gorst and Shane and Dennis might be the last man standing.
Perhaps there is more to the Parica/CJ story then we know?
 

Ponytailjoe

New member
Lets try this and have some fun.
There is a mystery player coming to town.
You have to put up $100,000 of your own money to back your horse.
You don't know what game is to be played.
You can pick any player from any era with no more information,no questions just pick.

My pick would be Wimpy.
If he crawled out from under his rock. Vernon Elliott feared no one
 

Ponytailjoe

New member
I don’t think this name has been mentioned yet but I have heard Vernon Elliott’s name thrown around when heralding great cash players. He mostly stayed regional (Midwest) but I have heard countless stories about his big take downs He also had a few prop bet shots, when the action was slow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He was Amazing to watch
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We are talking about money players but there is a big difference between money players that play with their own money and others with the backers money.
I would like to know about the best players who bet with their own money.
Maybe Jay can answer my question.
Good luck with this. In 40yrs of being around action i doubt i've seen ten matches for more than 50bux where a stakehorse wasn't involved. Just the nature of the game. Seen more than few TOP(some HOF'rs) players match up and rarely if ever were they betting their own $$. Not saying they don't but its usually cheap action til they can get a 'horse to get it up outta the mud. The monster Filipinos always had 'investors' and no one knocked them for it.
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
Cole would show up to play Harry with one barrel. I never saw him play with a backer. I was amazed that his game didn't change when on his last barrel. I did see him ready to go to work building fence the next day after going bust.
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
That was Efren, not Parica. NO ONE wanted Jose! He cured them all for about twenty years. Before he came along Buddy was the most feared player for the cash. I'd rank Francisco right behind Parica and ahead of Efren playing Nine or Ten Ball. Efren ruled in One Pocket and Rotation, the two toughest games. When I was starting out Lassiter had been The Man for a long time, until Worst came along. I'd put Harold on the same echelon as Parica, even if it was only for a brief period of time. There were many other great money players like Nick, Hopkins, Wade Crane and little Toby. Guys like Greg Stevens needed artificial help to keep going. Keith likewise. He could be fantastic one day and out of sorts another. Denny Searcy is one more who put fear in everybody, including Sigel and Hubbard. That's kind of my top ten in order. Jack Cooney is a special case. He just knew how to win more money than anyone else, and didn't need to beat the best players to do it.

As far as today is concerned, I've seen Dennis give up the nuts and win too many times. I truly think he can still grind with anyone and get there, playing dead even. Lock him in a room with Filler, Gorst and Shane and Dennis might be the last man standing.
I saw Parica sitting with his face in his hands when he played Johnny Archer at the Wagon Wheel two 7 ahead sets and lost both in a couple of hours. After that a low level pro said Jose walked into a green room at a big pro event and said loudly any pro in the room has the eight ball besides Johnny Archer.
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We are talking about money players but there is a big difference between money players that play with their own money and others with the backers money.
I would like to know about the best players who bet with their own money.
Maybe Jay can answer my question.
Back in the day when I gambled seriously on pool I was always more comfortable betting my own money then a backers.
If I lost I didn't have to listen to shit from a rail bird backer that couldn't run 3 balls.
And it was seldom I needed a backer.
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Vernon Elliott is a legend around the South East. How good was he? Wade Crane told me Vernon was one of the top five bank players in the country and was solid pro level at all the other pocket billiards games. He also told me Vernon had lost big dollars to some very top pros in nine ball. Grady Matthews said Vernon could beat him at banks, but should not beat him at any of the other games.
 
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