Best player ever for the cash?

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Several of the people named aren't exactly flush with cash the last time I checked. The question then becomes what happened to their money?
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
this thread is about who plays best for the cash under the pressure.
not who won the most money or tournaments.
or who made the best games and won all the time.
Thank you.
Maybe I should have had you ask the question.
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
There wasn’t a game that Nick wasn’t the strongest at some point in his career. In the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, he would have been one of the favorites at any discipline for American Pool.
Mike Dooley showed him his double kiss challenge at the 211 back in the '80s. A pastime challenge for $100. Six balls placed an inch off the rails at each of the lower side rail diamonds. Taking ball in hand on the first, double kiss them to the pockets counting the strokes required. Mike went first and did it in 6 strokes. Nick just gave him the money!
 
how would you gauge success? I would guess something around an overall 75% win rate, a near impossibility if you're in action against players at your level

I can only see Efren and Earl in their primes hitting 75%

If Buddy hit that number against top guys then he's likely the best gambler and pool player ever, alot of what I've read and heard about him supports that statement, I suspect that he was extemeley proficient at handicapping which is the key to all of this
 

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Afficionado
Silver Member
Of current people Alex is arguably the strongest. I’ve played him 50-60-70+ hours of high stakes backgammon and he’s a monster. I’ve had big leads on him more than once, he handles pressure good as anyone I ever gambled with. I couldn’t imagine playing pool with him-his Backgammon is strong but it’s not his best game.

Pool being his best game-God only knows how strong he is. I felt it playing backgammon plenty of times. Looking forward to the next time we play. He’s a gentleman to play as well. Class top to bottom. We never have a argument or disagreement he’s a great guy and has all my respect.

Best
Fatboy
here's how strong Alex is.

I have a minor rep for carnival type games and the 5 rail kick shot into a spotted ball with a penny on top of it is a main one I do.

Last year Alex was brought to a friends house and this shot came up (of course). Alex shoots it using his foot. WHAT??? That's right, he carefully hoisted his foot up and over the rail gave whitey a firm push sending it 5 rails around the table brushing the spotted ball without dislodging the penny.

We got it on video.

Hilarious & Amazing! :D
 
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gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
how would you gauge success? I would guess something around an overall 75% win rate, a near impossibility if you're in action against players at your level

I can only see Efren and Earl in their primes hitting 75%

If Buddy hit that number against top guys then he's likely the best gambler and pool player ever, alot of what I've read and heard about him supports that statement, I suspect that he was extemeley proficient at handicapping which is the key to all of this
The story as I remember:
On Efrens first trip to the U.S. after the tournament Efren was playing sets to 10 for $1,000. He was giving the 8 ball and since 9 ball was new to him he had no break so they got it too. The challenge was accepted by many and Efren dispatched them back to back, with Buddy being the only one to win a set.
 

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Afficionado
Silver Member
re the topic of this thread.

I believe if you were able to do a survey with all the top players past and present Jose Parica would be considered the 9 ball master at getting the cash.

Worst may have been best player of all games; what a shame that he passed at such a young age.

Jack Cooney at least deserves honorable mention.

best,
brian kc
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would pick Alex Pagulayan
I find it interesting, just from a pure pool playing perspective that Alex and Alan Hopkins' names come up a lot when talking about consistency under high pressure money situations. They both exhibit strokes that really minimize cue stick movement Prior to actually contacting the cue ball; however the both exhibit enough follow through on their short stroke to move the cue ball to the next desired location.

To me, there is something to be said about certain players who, through trial and error, realize that they can best stay ON the desired cue ball and object ball contact points with a minimum of cue stick movement - it works best for them, even though their stroke looks "different" than the classic longer flowing back and forth cue stick movement.

Somehow I have to also believe that the least amount of moving parts helped these guys keep " on the mark" for very long durations when playing for high stakes - less areas for the stroke to break down under pressure or exhaustion. I'll add Buddy's name as it came up a lot too- more flowing in stroke, but a very noticeable pause prior to the final stroke- again seems to hold up well for many great players under pressure.
I don't know much about Harold Worst's pool stroke- I wonder?
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
I find it interesting, just from a pure pool playing perspective that Alex and Alan Hopkins' names come up a lot when talking about consistency under high pressure money situations. They both exhibit strokes that really minimize cue stick movement Prior to actually contacting the cue ball; however the both exhibit enough follow through on their short stroke to move the cue ball to the next desired location.

To me, there is something to be said about certain players who, through trial and error, realize that they can best stay ON the desired cue ball and object ball contact points with a minimum of cue stick movement - it works best for them, even though their stroke looks "different" than the classic longer flowing back and forth cue stick movement.

Somehow I have to also believe that the least amount of moving parts helped these guys keep " on the mark" for very long durations when playing for high stakes - less areas for the stroke to break down under pressure or exhaustion. I'll add Buddy's name as it came up a lot too- more flowing in stroke, but a very noticeable pause prior to the final stroke- again seems to hold up well for many great players under pressure.
I don't know much about Harold Worst's pool stroke- I wonder?
You just brought the biggest thing we may be over looking, playing style. Some styles may be less pron to break down under pressure.

I'm back to Toby Sweet and players like him that are very simplified in their play. Buddy, Lassiter, Martin, Varner and others.
Fewer moving parts, no flamboyant stroke's. Harder to dog it and a confidence builder to know things you do work.

These players you could wake them in the middle of the night, stand them at a table, hand them a cue and they will run balls. They are efficient pool machines.

It takes confidence to play under pressure and not break down, but that confidence has to be based on something. These hight pressure players trust themselves and their skills, the player that dogs it doesn't.
It could be as simple as that.
 
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cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Johnny Archer was the best money player I ever saw when he was in his prime. A tournament tour director once said Johnny was the favorite to bet on in any money match he was in. He said Johnny was the best at matching up he had ever seen.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
here's how strong Alex is.

I have a minor rep for carnival type games and the 5 rail kick shot into a spotted ball with a penny on top of it is a main one I do.

Last year Alex was brought to a friends house and this shot came up (of course). Alex shoots it using his foot. WHAT??? That's right, he carefully hoisted his foot up and over the rail gave whitey a firm push sending it 5 rails around the table brushing the spotted ball without dislodging the penny.

We got it on video.

Hilarious & Amazing! :D
would love to see that video if you ever get around to posting it
it probablt deserves its own thread
 

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Afficionado
Silver Member
I don't know about doing it with your foot, but it's a gaff shot pretty much anybody can do once you show them how.
a gaff shot perhaps but the skill side of it is how consistently you can make successful shots.

Or for some, if they can do it with their feet. 🥸 👍😂
 

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
Buddy is #1. Not even close. Nick Varner was good but he 'played position' a lot. Rested all tourney then would show up at end of tourney and if he didn't win, play the winner or the big gambling winner for money. Jose is also under consideration along with Bustamente.
 

nick serdula

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Dead eye Dick. All I can say is beat champeens and busted the Mezz and Buddy and Rempee and the list goes on Willie wouldn't play him or Crane or Cranfield and Willie told Mezz whatever you do don't play him straight. That confused Steve. He told Willie what are you talking about I am the best. Willie told Dick he replied except for him. St .louie louie eat it also telling Bob Mueccie he is the best player on the planet. Dick told me he never practiced but woulld practice his 9ball break. He said the only person he didn't beat was luther never met him. He said I can't say how any of them played. I didn't give up the table. I beat them until they quit.
Nick :)

Dick Hunzicker the original Dead eye Dick
 

Sometimes

New member
Lots of threads and talk about who was the GOAT.
But who was the best for the cash?
Action not tournament playing.

Wimpy said Don Willis was but that was a long time ago.
I always heard that Hopkins didn't wilt for the cash no matter the amount.
What say you?
Bill Lawson was an under cover player that could play with anyone.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The story as I remember:
On Efrens first trip to the U.S. after the tournament Efren was playing sets to 10 for $1,000. He was giving the 8 ball and since 9 ball was new to him he had no break so they got it too. The challenge was accepted by many and Efren dispatched them back to back, with Buddy being the only one to win a set.
Buddy not only won a set he beat ER pretty good. Dick Lane told ER's handlers that they could bet up to a MILLION DOLLARS if they wanted some more of Buddy in Dallas. Pretty stout. As for Lawson, i know a guy that traveled with him some back in the day. He said if Bill was sober he could beat anybody.
 
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