Best Road Player Team Ever?
- Thread starter jnav447
- Start date
sjm said:
Absolutely right about this team. Larry steered Mike into all the right games, and avoided the wrong ones. Meanwhile the "backer" played better for the cash than the "player".
The Devil Made Me Say It
Best Road Player Team Ever?
Hmmmmm, Whoppie and Painter.
Doug
.
Best Road Player Team Ever?
Hmmmmm, Whoppie and Painter.
Doug
.
watchez said:
Exactly!
-Melinda
Madcity said:
Sigel got a dose of the ETHER, and then Hubbart tried to get their money back and got ETHERized too. Keith gave Larry the eight at the end, and it made little difference by then. In those days, Keith missed nothing! If you let him shoot after he pushed out, you were finished. He made you shoot at shots you didn't like. No one got past Keith in the mid 70's playing 9-Ball.
From age 18 to 21 Keith may have been the best pool player that ever lived. Definitely the scariest to play against. Fearless does not even begin to describe him. He would run out a tough rack so fast it would make your head spin. The best I ever saw, and could do it for all the money too. After that he was just one of the best! The horses and the high life slowed him down a notch.
They called Larry Hubbart the "Iceman" but Keith turned him into tap water.
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jay helfert said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
jay helfert said:
Great post jay!
I went to HardTimes around midnight after playing bar pool earlier and there wasn't much going on until some skinny kid with a smart looking black leather jacket came in a while later. Everything seemed to go uptempo after he arrived. A while later a bigger man wearing almost the same jacket arrived and the woofen started. About 3am the the game was on. I believe the older gentle man whom they called Frisco Jack was getting the 7-ball. Stupid me decided I was tired and when back to my room. I heard later the young kid won?
Holly & Kristi?
I know, I know...
I know, I know...
jay helfert said:
Nice, that's classic
jay helfert said:
According to Bruce Venzke of The National Billiards News, pool players go through definite streaks and "Who can forget the one for Keith McCready?" Sigel, Varner, Rempe, Hopkins, Hall, Strickland, and Balukas are probably the longest streak-holders on the American tournament trail during my lifetime.
During this era of the '70s and '80s in American pool, even though tournaments were abound, hustling, going on the road, and action was a way of life. Sometimes the tournament venues would be a gathering place for players, and the main action would take place outside of the tournament. This was Keith's specialty and where he shined the brightest.
A tournament environment was difficult on the 1970's Keith. However, his first professional pocket billiards competition in his homestate of California left an impression. Coming from behind, he ran nine straight racks of nine-ball in the finals, defeating Larry Hubbart, 11-6, to win the Sacramento Open; a package, if you will.
As Keith's game developed, so did his reputation for action. They came from around the country to California targeting Keith. When Larry Hubbart and Mike Sigel came to California, Keith did beat them. The next week, the dynamic duo of Hubbart and Sigel left for St. Louis to compete in a tournament. After the tournament, Hubbart got in action with Dave Matlock, spotting him the 8, and this time, Hubbart triumphed.
The road warriors were a special breed, and many times they traveled under the radar. Even today, there's still a few players who don't give a hoot about tournaments, won't play in them, and would prefer to be on the road and seek action games.
During this era when gambling was prevalent, who can forget Detroit, Biloxi, Mobile, Johnston City, St. Louis, Jack and Jill's in Virginia, Baker's in Tampa? There was more money being won and lost in the '70s and '80s, than today.
I always have had a special fondness for the action men from days gone by. They gambled sometimes using house cues, played on strange equipment, and came to town with an open challenge. Someday these action men will be memorialized, so that the ignorant can understand their culture. God bless these players who provided so much entertainment, i.e., Cornbread Red, Wimpy, Minnesota Fats, Larry Lisciotti, Weenie Beenie. Each brought so much more to the table than just their game. Unfortunately, only those who were present can appreciate and understand their legacies to the fullest.
The road warriors of yesteryear are a dying breed, but it's the stuff that is still written about today, much like this thread.
JAM
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Madcity said:Great post jay!
I went to HardTimes around midnight after playing bar pool earlier and there wasn't much going on until some skinny kid with a smart looking black leather jacket came in a while later. Everything seemed to go uptempo after he arrived. A while later a bigger man wearing almost the same jacket arrived and the woofen started. About 3am the the game was on. I believe the older gentle man whom they called Frisco Jack was getting the 7-ball. Stupid me decided I was tired and when back to my room. I heard later the young kid won?
Keith gave the 7 Ball to the world on a bar table back then. It meant nothing to him. He may have had a problem with Jack on a big table, but then again, maybe not. Now, if they played One Pocket (which I don't know) Keith could not get there. Not then for sure. Later Keith became a good One Pocket player as well.
Damn Jay, you're up early. Me too.
How about Billy Johnson? I remember back in the early 70s he was going into towns challenging everyone and usually winning. He played mostly solo, didn't he?
How about Billy Johnson? I remember back in the early 70s he was going into towns challenging everyone and usually winning. He played mostly solo, didn't he?
JAM said:According to Bruce Venzke of The National Billiards News, pool players go through definite streaks and "Who can forget the one for Keith McCready?" Sigel, Varner, Rempe, Hopkins, Hall, Strickland, and Balukas are probably the longest streak-holders on the American tournament trail during my lifetime.
During this era of the '70s and '80s in American pool, even though tournaments were abound, hustling, going on the road, and action was a way of life. Sometimes the tournament venues would be a gathering place for players, and the main action would take place outside of the tournament. This was Keith's specialty and where he shined the brightest.
A tournament environment was difficult on the 1970's Keith. However, his first professional pocket billiards competition in his homestate of California left an impression. Coming from behind, he ran nine straight racks of nine-ball in the finals, defeating Larry Hubbart, 11-6, to win the Sacramento Open; a package, if you will.
As Keith's game developed, so did his reputation for action. They came from around the country to California targeting Keith. When Larry Hubbart and Mike Sigel came to California, Keith did beat them. The next week, the dynamic duo of Hubbart and Sigel left for St. Louis to compete in a tournament. After the tournament, Hubbart got in action with Dave Matlock, spotting him the 8, and this time, Hubbart triumphed.
The road warriors were a special breed, and many times they traveled under the radar. Even today, there's still a few players who don't give a hoot about tournaments, won't play in them, and would prefer to be on the road and seek action games.
During this era when gambling was prevalent, who can forget Detroit, Biloxi, Mobile, Johnston City, St. Louis, Jack and Jill's in Virginia, Baker's in Tampa? There was more money being won and lost in the '70s and '80s, than today.
I always have had a special fondness for the action men from days gone by. They gambled sometimes using house cues, played on strange equipment, and came to town with an open challenge. Someday these action men will be memorialized, so that the ignorant can understand their culture. God bless these players who provided so much entertainment, i.e., Cornbread Red, Wimpy, Minnesota Fats, Larry Lisciotti, Weenie Beenie. Each brought so much more to the table than just their game. Unfortunately, only those who were present can appreciate and understand their legacies to the fullest.
The road warriors of yesteryear are a dying breed, but it's the stuff that is still written about today, much like this thread.
JAM
Thanks for this Jam. On the West Coast back then, Keith was a feared gambler, and Richie was already beginning to look at promoting events. Richie was still the MAN though and everyone looked up to him. He had so much heart and he kept firing back at you until you wilted. He probably had a big impact on the young Keith, as did Ronnie who was a fearsome gambler as well. So Keith had two great influences on his young career, two of the all time best lived in the same area.
Up North, Cole and Denny were the big guns and Keith went round and round with them also. After fading Ronnie, Richie, Denny and Cole, the rest of the world looked almost soft, except for Buddy and maybe a couple of others. All I know is I was there and watched the East Coast champs duck Keith in the money games. A few tried, but many died!
In the late 70's to the early 90's Keith had Swanee in San Diego and Kim showed up in the 80's as well up North. So he always had challengers out here. Kim and Keith played many times, and they were all shoot outs. Swanee and Keith became best friends, with a mutual respect and love for the good life.
Most people don't know that Swanee was one of the best big money players ever. They would fly him in to play guys 500 or a thousand a game 9-Ball in the 80's. The list of players he beat would read like a who's who of big action men. He later became a mentor and partner of a young Johnny Archer.
So the West Coast was well represented when it came to money players in those days, and the word around the country was the best 9-Ball players lived out West. Try playing Richie, Denny, Keith and Cole in the 70's. Or Keith, Kim and Swanee in the 80's. No one could run that gauntlet and escape with the money. California was treacherous territory for road men back then. Only a few players negotiated the minefields out here and survived. Jimmy Marino, Wade Crane, Hawaiian Brian and Larry Lisciotti come to mind, but they got steered around real well by experts like Cuban Joe, Popcorn and Frisco Jack.
Brian was triple sharp anyway! He could out negotiate and then out play almost anybody who tried to match wits with him. And Jack is legendary for taking off the biggest scores of anyone, and he did it on a regular basis. In the end, San Diego and Swanee were off limits for pool players in the 80's and Keith was off limits anywhere he appeared.
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Danny Kuykendal said:
He traveled mostly with Cuban Joe up and down the West Coast. Sometimes you wouldn't know Joe was with him, he worked that angle pretty well. Billy beat just about everyone he played and had some monumental sessions with Richie. Richie won once and Billy won once that I know of. Keith was pretty young back then, but I'm sure he would have played Billy if they met anywhere. I don't know first hand though how they came out.
I just never heard of anyone beating Keith back then. I strongly suspect Cuban Joe wouldn't let Billy play Keith. If he beats Keith all his action is dead. And Keith might bust them if they fool with him. Joe tried to keep Billy's speed under wraps as much as possible. Richie's big games with Billy were back in Atlanta, and only he and Ronnie knew who he was when he first came out here. Joe brought him up to my pool room in the early 70's and passed him off as his rich backer.
I played Joe some $50 full rack Bank Pool and won two games and he quit. Then he "steered" his backer into me and pretty soon I was playing him $50 9-Ball. $300 later I wised up and quit the game. Joe was pissed that I quit so soon, but I smelled a rat.
By the way, for those who don't know, Billy Johnson and Wade Crane are the same guy.
Jay, thanks for the info. I worked in a bakery in 72 or so with Wade's girlfriend in Ahaheim. I was an apprentice baker for about a year ( as long as I could stand it).
She lived in the area while he was on the road, I guess.
She lived in the area while he was on the road, I guess.
jay helfert said:Thanks for this Jam. On the West Coast back then, Keith was a feared gambler, and Richie was already beginning to look at promoting events. Richie was still the MAN though and everyone looked up to him. He had so much heart and he kept firing back at you until you wilted. He probably had a big impact on the young Keith, as did Ronnie who was a fearsome gambler as well. So Keith had two great influences on his young career, two of the all time best lived in the same area.
Up North, Cole and Denny were the big guns and Keith went round and round with them also. After fading Ronnie, Richie, Denny and Cole, the rest of the world looked almost soft, except for Buddy and maybe a couple of others. All I know is I was there and watched the East Coast champs duck Keith in the money games. A few tried, but many died!
In the late 70's to the early 90's Keith had Swanee in San Diego and Kim showed up in the 80's as well up North. So he always had challengers out here. Kim and Keith played many times, and they were all shoot outs. Swanee and Keith became best friends, with a mutual respect and love for the good life.
Most people don't know that Swanee was one of the best big money players ever. They would fly him in to play guys 500 or a thousand a game 9-Ball in the 80's. The list of players he beat would read like a who's who of big action men. He later became a mentor and partner of a young Johnny Archer.
So the West Coast was well represented when it came to money players in those days, and the word around the country was the best 9-Ball players lived out West. Try playing Richie, Denny, Keith and Cole in the 70's. Or Keith, Kim and Swanee in the 80's. No one could run that gauntlet and escape with the money. California was treacherous territory for road men back then. Only a few players negotiated the minefields out here and survived. Jimmy Marino, Wade Crane, Hawaiian Brian and Larry Lisciotti come to mind, but they got steered around real well by experts like Cuban Joe, Popcorn and Frisco Jack.
Brian was triple sharp anyway! He could out negotiate and then out play almost anybody who tried to match wits with him. And Jack is legendary for taking off the biggest scores of anyone, and he did it on a regular basis. In the end, San Diego and Swanee were off limits for pool players in the 80's and Keith was off limits anywhere he appeared.
Swanne was another of my fvorites back in that day as well. A huge guy but always seemingly pretty happy nd easy going.
I drew him in the Denver Open and was playing pretty well at the time. We had battled pretty hard when the score reached 10-10 and I thought I had him when made maybe the most incredible shot anyone hs ever made on me in a tournament and made it look so routine.He got out and came over and shook my hand and said, " I almost feel like I should apologize for that because I never go for it, but it just looked like itwas on."
The man must hae paddeled like hell underneath, because he was as smooth as glass on the surface.