Table Top Joe
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What do you think is a better spot for the person receiving weight against a strong player, 10-5 or 12-6 and breaks?
Better 1-hole spot?
- Thread starter Table Top Joe
- Start date
Too many variables...if both play well enough to run all the balls they need to win, I say 12-6 breaks.
No, scrap that. 12-6 and the cracks every day. Not even close.
10-5.
Steve "Cookie Monster" Cook once told me: "it doesn't matter what you're going to -- it matters what you make the other guy go to."
IOW, if the the stronger player can go to 12 he can go to 13, if necessary, and get out of your break. Soooo, in the long run, I think the guy getting weight is better off going to five.
Lou Figueroa
I agree with Lou on this
I agree with elvicash agreeing with Lou on this. :smile:
Keep in mind that even if the stronger player knows how to get out of the weaker player's break, that weak player, by breaking every game doesn't have to deal with the strong player's break.
I would much prefer to give up ten-five and split the breaks. I figure to win most every game on my break at ten-five and now all I have to do is win a game here and there when he breaks the balls. With half the breaks I can put a great deal of pressure on him.
Tom
I would much prefer to give up ten-five and split the breaks. I figure to win most every game on my break at ten-five and now all I have to do is win a game here and there when he breaks the balls. With half the breaks I can put a great deal of pressure on him.
Tom
I think it's true that the stronger player prefers the longer game if a constant ratio is maintained. That's because the start of each rack is a little random and it takes a while for the spotter to take control of the rack. In that time of chaos, the spottee may get a few balls that he won't have any shot at later in the rack. But 10-5 is a better game for the stronger player than 15-6. Or 14-6. Or maybe even 13-6.
I think if 10-5 alternate break is nearly even then 12-6+breaks could go either way, depending on the strengths of the breaks of the two players. I've seen some players that you want give the break to.
I think if 10-5 alternate break is nearly even then 12-6+breaks could go either way, depending on the strengths of the breaks of the two players. I've seen some players that you want give the break to.
So you have seen my 1p game?:embarrassed2:
At first glance I thought 10-5 was a better spot (for the reciever). Not having to deal with return of serve after the break is great idea! Now the better player should always be under pressure on every game. Wears even the best man out over time.
Now if your Dippy you want 17-4.
Nick
Now if your Dippy you want 17-4.
Nick
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IMO there is a problem with the way some folks are thinking about this. Now admittedly, there are a world of potential variables. However, one thing is certain: given the spots in question there is a huge honkin' gap between the skill levels of the two players. The weaker player is just not going to be able to lean on the stronger player hard enough to make him sweat getting out of the break.
The other thing is that once a player can think about giving any player with a pulse a game like 12-6 he's not getting onesies and twoies when the other player screws up and gives him an open table. More likely he's gonna get *a bunch* and is probably even thinking about *getting them all.* AND, if he can't get out, he's going to make sure that when he does have to turn over the table his opponent is going to find himself fighting to get out of a death trap.
Lou Figueroa
The other thing is that once a player can think about giving any player with a pulse a game like 12-6 he's not getting onesies and twoies when the other player screws up and gives him an open table. More likely he's gonna get *a bunch* and is probably even thinking about *getting them all.* AND, if he can't get out, he's going to make sure that when he does have to turn over the table his opponent is going to find himself fighting to get out of a death trap.
Lou Figueroa
Being a player who gets big spots - 12-6 plus the hits is best for me.
Not having to fade the geat players break is an important point. Usually,
however, I will not go to 6. It is an iteresting choice.
Basic - My rules -
Go short. (5 or less)
Get the break. (unless going to 3 or less)
Not having to fade the geat players break is an important point. Usually,
however, I will not go to 6. It is an iteresting choice.
Basic - My rules -
Go short. (5 or less)
Get the break. (unless going to 3 or less)
Hey Tramp,
What happen to the big spots in one pocket? A couple of weeks ago Justin Hall gave a guy 10/2 and cleaned him up good. The guy did not win a game.
Now back to this thread, I agree with Tramp, agreeing with ElviCash, agreeing with Lou! Wow! I think I got that right!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
I say 12-6. With or without the breaks. Main reason, is that in the 10-5, both players can need only one ball to win, and there will still be 2 balls on the table. This, IMO, favors the stronger player tremendously!
12 to 6 and the break is much stronger
i have been on the receiving end of the spot
never allow a better player to break,never
if as has been suggested the strong player gets out of your break easily perhaps you should multiply that by many times,what he will do if he breaks
fewer balls is better 10 to 5 is better than 12 to 6 for the person getting spotted
but10 to 6 and the break is a little better than 10 to 5
there are people who can give lots more weight to average players than this
it is possible to lose with 15 to 5 and the break
this game requires more than just the theory of handicapping
efryn reyes can give good shortstop road players 15 to 5
guys like joe salazar,who is or was a pretty good player himself
the basics of matching up
1 if you are playing a much better player.start with the break
2the lower your ball count,the better for you
3 move your ball down if you lose
4if you win,move his ball down
there are other rules for matching and playing other players,but
this is all from me
i played dozens of road players and champion,almost everyone could spot me the orange crush at 9 ball and many did
but when i played one hole,i was able to win consistently by following these guidelines
rack your own tight and learn to break
it is very basic and in a few hours you can figure it out
if not,maybe you should stick to practice play
gambling is not for everyone
i have been on the receiving end of the spot
never allow a better player to break,never
if as has been suggested the strong player gets out of your break easily perhaps you should multiply that by many times,what he will do if he breaks
fewer balls is better 10 to 5 is better than 12 to 6 for the person getting spotted
but10 to 6 and the break is a little better than 10 to 5
there are people who can give lots more weight to average players than this
it is possible to lose with 15 to 5 and the break
this game requires more than just the theory of handicapping
efryn reyes can give good shortstop road players 15 to 5
guys like joe salazar,who is or was a pretty good player himself
the basics of matching up
1 if you are playing a much better player.start with the break
2the lower your ball count,the better for you
3 move your ball down if you lose
4if you win,move his ball down
there are other rules for matching and playing other players,but
this is all from me
i played dozens of road players and champion,almost everyone could spot me the orange crush at 9 ball and many did
but when i played one hole,i was able to win consistently by following these guidelines
rack your own tight and learn to break
it is very basic and in a few hours you can figure it out
if not,maybe you should stick to practice play
gambling is not for everyone
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Always make the better player go high on ball count is my view. Even if you get a good break (assuming you have the breaks), he will just take an intentional foul rather than sell out.
One match a few years back between a local and a world beater (they were playing like 12-5), it looked like the world beater had robbed someone piggy bank of pennies on most games. Guess what, he still won, just took a foul when he was in a trap. Now if you went the 3 foul rule, that would change things, but without this, the better player is not going to sell very often, as he will just put another coin on the rail and wait patiently to get a shot.
One thing of note though, when these guys were playing I believe the game went 13-5 when the world beater got the break, but it's been a while so it could have been 14-5).
One match a few years back between a local and a world beater (they were playing like 12-5), it looked like the world beater had robbed someone piggy bank of pennies on most games. Guess what, he still won, just took a foul when he was in a trap. Now if you went the 3 foul rule, that would change things, but without this, the better player is not going to sell very often, as he will just put another coin on the rail and wait patiently to get a shot.
One thing of note though, when these guys were playing I believe the game went 13-5 when the world beater got the break, but it's been a while so it could have been 14-5).
im going to tell ya
10 / 5 is a much better spot for you to get than 12 / 6 & the breaks .......... ill tell you why ....... you are all ready geting the break evry other break anyway .......... and it dosent mater that your takin the break away from him evry other break .......... it is more important for you as a weeker player to go to the smaller number wich is { 5 } .......... look @ my screen name 1Hole_nut
<<~~~~~ been aroud the game for a min
10 / 5 is a much better spot for you to get than 12 / 6 & the breaks .......... ill tell you why ....... you are all ready geting the break evry other break anyway .......... and it dosent mater that your takin the break away from him evry other break .......... it is more important for you as a weeker player to go to the smaller number wich is { 5 } .......... look @ my screen name 1Hole_nut
<<~~~~~ been aroud the game for a min
This is also how I see it. I've been on the receiving end of huge spots, like 10-5, 12-6, 13-5, 9-3, 4-2, etc. I'm a high C/Low B player, and these spots were against A to Open players.
After keeping detailed stats of my games for 10 years, I've concluded a C to B player just cannot beat a strong A to Open player, no matter the spot. There is just too much skill difference, for the spot to make any difference.