Better equipment, shafts, Tips, and Kamui Chalk, but the 526 RUN RECORDS Stands?
- Thread starter CocoboloCowboy
- Start date
I once lived at a street address of 111. The next place I lived was apt # 11. From there I bought my house and have been here ever since, 31 years. The street address is 101.
Odd how those things fall into place at times...
In the Philippines I lived at 808 8th Street.
Now, in Hawaii, my area code is 808.
Where I grew up in MO, the first three digits of my phone number was 888.
At some time or another, I'm sure I won $8 in an 8-ball game.
What does it all mean?
In China, the "luckiest" number is 8.
What does the number 8 mean in China?
8 (八, BĀ) - LUCKY. 8 is the luckiest number in Chinese culture because 八 sounds like 發 (fa), which means “wealth”, “fortune”, and “prosper” in Chinese. Multiples of eight are even better, as 88 bears a resemblance to 囍 (shuāng xǐ), or “double happiness”.
The number 8 is viewed as such an auspicious number that even being assigned a number with several eights is considered very lucky. In 2003, the phone number "+86 28 8888 8888" was sold to Sichuan Airlines for CN¥2.33 million (approximately US$280,000).
But He DIDN'T!
The players today are, 'shot makers' from playing rotation games, with better & faster stuff!
I don't think they would even come close to 526, under the same conditions!
SLOW cloth, WORST balls, SLOWER rubber! I mean, it ridiculous how fast it ALL is NOW! Don't get me wrong, it's the same in 3 cushion, the reason you see VERY high averages!
More reason to not even try.
If you break it, you still would get a lot of arguments how much "easier" it is to break 526.
5 1/4 corners is buckets to these guys . How wide were the side pockets ?
https://youtu.be/ItPxJuAoimE?t=75
He misses a ball and it trickles in.
Who really cares about the cloth speed when you're playing half the table almost 100% ?
And when they get out of position, it's almost always they overran their next spot.
You think the greats today don't have the stroke to move the cue ball on slow cloth ?
PS
He says he did not miss. He says he quit after 526.
https://youtu.be/ItPxJuAoimE?t=624
Duplicate post.
Last edited:
The elephant-in-the-room question here, for me at least, would be, with a "standing-room-only" audience of, one would assume, at least a smattering of "who's who" in the pool world, at an official exhibition in NYC, why **wasn't** this run "recognized"? I've seen it discussed many times and the wrap-up has always been "Oh, well... it wasn't recognized as official." but I don't recall ever seeing WHY. Anyone have any idea, beyond "It just wasn't." ?
Last edited:
In case YOU are not familiar with, straight pool, the, 'Break shots' are MUCH easier today! The balls open up like a Christmas present! Back in the day, you had to play for 4 or 5 ball breakouts, once or twice in a rack!
ONLY a couple of players, Earl, Corey, even Buddy Hall if played SP would stroke them better!
R.A Dyer in "The Hustler & The Champ" makes a pretty convincing case for Mosconi gambling *a lot* when he was coming up through the ranks.
But then the money from sponsors made him disavow all that to perpetuate a squeaky clean image of pool.
Lou Figueroa
Frankly, I do not care what size table, what cloth, what size pockets, what balls, what cushions, what stick, what tip, or anything else is used.
Records are made to be broken.
However, I do have problem with whole racks of balls being taken off the table and run through a ball polisher every few racks. IMO that is a cheat because, if you play any 14.1 at all you know that that will make any break shot *considerably* more effective. You simply do not have to work the rack and balls as much because they will open up like a bag of split popcorn.
The mountain should get steep the higher you go and that's one of the things that makes the 526 so great.
Walked into a strange room.
Warmed up with a couple of racks.
No starting break shot.
Not your pet table that you've played on for hundreds of hours.
No perfect conditions.
One try.
Lou Figueroa
Last edited:
come on, with the state of pool in general and straight pool in particular, any credible video with a 526+ run should suffice. "it must be at an exhibition", well there are no exhibitions anymore! the world has changed, youtube and facebook have replaced the curious crowds in smoke filled pool halls, so we just have to get with the fact that the conditions from yesteryears can't be duplicated
I don't understand why the 14.1 players of today are penalized for access to better equipment. The game and industry have evolved. At the time, Mosconi played with state of the art equipment and had access to the best of the best being sponsored by Brunswick. I'm certain Willie faced the same nonsense from old-timers of his day regarding his 526; "I'd like to see him do it with/without...". Even with the modern equipment, 526 still stands. Why? Because it is hard as hell to maintain the level of focus over the length of time required to run 526 balls. IMO, the only valid caveat to Mosconi's run is the fact he showed up to a strange room, hit a rack or two then snapped off a 526 during a match (exhibition). I think Willie's run is more a testament to his mental strength than the type of equipment he did it with. Being as pool exhibitions no longer happen, how can we penalize someone if they broke the record in "practice"? The mental endurance is the same so why can't we just celebrate a 527 (if it happens) or Schmidt's recent 407 for what it is or could be: Greatness. For the sake of pool, I hope it happens and I guarantee it would garner exposure on national media outlets. I'm certain ESPN would make mention of it on SportsCenter. It would be monumental and could be the shot in the arm pool needs to get another opportunity at the mainstream. Instead, people are knocking it. Equipment this; practice this, no exhibitions that. Seriously? Would you rather no one had interest in 14.1? Take a step back and look at the bigger picture. As great as Willie was, it would be greater if his record was broken.
Last edited:
Tap tap tap.
In the Philippines I lived at 808 8th Street.
Now, in Hawaii, my area code is 808.
Where I grew up in MO, the first three digits of my phone number was 888.
At some time or another, I'm sure I won $8 in an 8-ball game.
What does it all mean?
In China, the "luckiest" number is 8.
What does the number 8 mean in China?
8 (八, BĀ) - LUCKY. 8 is the luckiest number in Chinese culture because 八 sounds like 發 (fa), which means “wealth”, “fortune”, and “prosper” in Chinese. Multiples of eight are even better, as 88 bears a resemblance to 囍 (shuāng xǐ), or “double happiness”.
The number 8 is viewed as such an auspicious number that even being assigned a number with several eights is considered very lucky. In 2003, the phone number "+86 28 8888 8888" was sold to Sichuan Airlines for CN¥2.33 million (approximately US$280,000).
H.E. - I *LOVE* numbers. I don't mean in the classical sense, as math was my worst subject in school. But in a purely abstract sense, numbers are mesmerizing to me. And for me, it's "9" I was born the ninth day of the ninth month. September has 9 letters. And while I'm sure some math whiz ( or stone-cold genius types in science / math, like Bob Jewett! ) would have some calm, plausible explanation for it, the number 9 is REALLLYYYY "weird". Like, eerie weird. I won't go into it here as it's long and involved but trust me, 9 is a STRANGE number.
I don't believe there is anything wrong with using better, more modern equipment.
But most sports fans frown on things that provide the player with too much of an edge and that throw historical context out the window. There's a reason there are limits on how you can manufacture a golf ball, though some designs provide an edge. There's a reason why playing with a juiced bat is considered illegal though it provides an edge. An if you get away from New England, most fans think it's unfair to deflate a football, though it gives the quarterback more control particularly in cold weather
All those things (and others), make those sports easier and the performances better. And I suppose you could argue that without limits, records in almost every sport would tumble, some arguing that giving the player better conditions results in a more enjoyable version of the game for fans. But in sports where there are governing bodies, rules, specifications, and limits are placed on equipment for good reason. Pool dan't got any of that. In any case, it's just one guy's opinion. YMMV.
Lou Figueroa
I don't believe there is anything wrong with using better, more modern equipment.
But most sports fans frown on things that provide the player with too much of an edge and that throw historical context out the window. There's a reason there are limits on how you can manufacture a golf ball, though some designs provide an edge. There's a reason why playing with a juiced bat is considered illegal though it provides an edge. An if you get away from New England, most fans think it's unfair to deflate a football, though it gives the quarterback more control particularly in cold weather
All those things (and others), make those sports easier and the performances better. And I suppose you could argue that without limits, records in almost every sport would tumble, some arguing that giving the player better conditions results in a more enjoyable version of the game for fans. But in sports where there are governing bodies, rules, specifications, and limits are placed on equipment for good reason. Pool dan't got any of that. In any case, it's just one guy's opinion. YMMV.
Lou Figueroa
I hear where you are coming from Lou but every single sport has made advancements in equipment. I do not think those made in pool give anyone that big of an advantage over players of the past. Pool balls are still 2.25" but are made from a better material today and the "regulation" size table is still 4.5' x 9' but with better cloth today. There have been other technological advancements but they do not seem to give players an unfair advantage over their predecessors. You still need to properly line up and deliver a straight stroke; regardless of what you are swinging. As for other sports, baseball gloves are far better than those from the '50's and bats are lighter (for the most part) with varied tapers to meet player's specs. These advancements certainly help players field more cleanly and deliver higher bat speeds. In basketball, the shoe technology has definitely helped the game. Could you imagine LeBron running up and down the court in a pair of Chuck's? In football, the safety equipment has evolved the game. Imagine everyone running around in leather helmets. My point is, all sports have evolved and helped players achieve greatness which is why it is so difficult to compare different eras. Mosconi's record still stands after 64+ years which is a testament to the difficulty of the game not the equipment used.
In some instances though, evolution will almost guarantee a record to stand. Case in point: DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak set in 1941. I think this may be one of the rare instances where a record will stand forever. The game has evolved to a point where pitching is now specialized. I'm sure DiMaggio extended his streak more than once in the late innings facing a tired starting pitcher. Today, fresh arms are coming out of the bullpen with regularity and most throw 100+ mph. It's going to be real tough to hit in 56 straight in today's game.
I don't believe there is anything wrong with using better, more modern equipment.
But most sports fans frown on things that provide the player with too much of an edge and that throw historical context out the window. There's a reason there are limits on how you can manufacture a golf ball, though some designs provide an edge. There's a reason why playing with a juiced bat is considered illegal though it provides an edge. An if you get away from New England, most fans think it's unfair to deflate a football, though it gives the quarterback more control particularly in cold weather
All those things (and others), make those sports easier and the performances better. And I suppose you could argue that without limits.
records in almost every sport would tumble, some arguing that giving the player better conditions results in a more enjoyable version of the game for fans. But in sports where there are governing bodies, rules, specifications, and limits are placed on equipment for good reason. Pool dan't got any of that. In any case, it's just one guy's opinion. YMMV.
Lou Figueroa
TRUE to a point....but.
Like Stroud pointed out....Simonis is like Billiard Cloth. It''s because of this the game and the players equipment has COMPLETELY changed. Now instead of improving your swing and swing speed.... it's more important to swing straight, no longer are there great players with quirky swings. It would be similar to trimming the fairways to the same cut level as the putting surface....in doing so players would no longer have to get stronger to increase their swing/distance....just hit it straight about 200 yards out and if your in the fairway, it will roll another 100 yards. That is sad.
How about the reverse? How would Billiard players like to play with non Billiard cloth and be forced to play with pocket billiard cloth?
I'll answer the LAST question. ALL GREAT players adapt! Another point, in 3C, we do WAY MORE with the CB and 2nd ball! Thus, the difficulty factor over pool! I started in 1963, ivory balls, directional cloth, slower rubber, unheated tables, and still have a record that has NEVER been broken! 62 straight sanctioned tournament game victories with 9 tournament wins in a row in 1983! I loss the 63rd game to Lee Kravitz at the Cushion & Cue in Oak Park, MI. Ray Abram's place. I still won that tournament.