Better equipment, shafts, Tips, and Kamui Chalk, but the 526 RUN RECORDS Stands?

knicks

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Info on Willies Run from Wikipedia

526 high run

Mosconi set the world record by running 526 consecutive balls without a miss during a straight pool exhibition in Springfield, Ohio on March 19–20, 1954. To this day the record has not been toppled and many speculate it may never be bested. A handwritten and notarized affidavit with the signatures of more than 35 eyewitnesses exists as proof of this feat.

The record was set on a 4 × 8 foot Brunswick table with 5 1/4 inch corner pockets at the East High Billiard Club. Today's standard for tables may be considered more difficult to play on than this exhibition table in the sense that longer shots are required (today's standard tables are 9 x 4 1/2 ft) with 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 inch pockets, but today's tables may be considered easier to play on in the sense that there is more room for the balls to spread, creating unfettered shots. Mosconi competed successfully on 4 1/2 × 9 and 5 x 10 ft tables. The 526-ball record just happened to be on a 4 × 8 ft table, a size seldom used in professional play, but used for the billiard club exhibition that day. In fact, the room owner expected the exhibition to take place on the room's 9 foot table. That table was not a Brunswick, so Willie was required to play on one of the Brunswick 8 foot tables.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
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Mosconi would travel room to room and play the local favorite -- he had no input on who the local room put up against him.

Many of these guys could play and occasionally he'd get beat. It is unfair to say he just played someone who could hold a stick. And yes, sometimes he'd remind an opponent who the crowd was there to see if they spent too much time at the table either running balls or playing a lot of safeties and intention scratches.

There's a good Mosconi quote out there somewhere that I'm thinking of about playing amateurs in these exhibitions and how they all hoped to have their best day playing against him but I can't recall were I read it.

Lou Figueroa
 
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pt109

WO double hemlock
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Mosconi would travel room to room and play the local favorite -- he had no input on who the local room put up against him.

Many of these guys could played occasionally he'd get beat. It is unfair to say he just played someone who could hold a stick. And yes, sometimes he'd remind an opponent who the crowd was there to see if they spent too much time at the table either running balls or playing a lot of safeties and intention scratches.

There's a good Mosconi quote out there somewhere that I'm thinking of about playing amateurs in these exhibitions and how they all hoped to have their best day playing against him but I can't recall were I read it.

Lou Figueroa

I do have some sympathy for Willie’s position.
I feel room owners should be wise in their selection of Willie’s opponents....
...a capable player who understands the situation...it’s a Mosconi exhibition.

In his day, they used to say there were a whole flock of players just in NYC who could run
200 balls on any given day....wouldn’t matter who was holding the other cue.

Pat Howie outta Rochester only played Irving Crane once....to 200...Pat finished the game
In two visits....Irving barely got to double figures.
 

Yoda4962

North Texas
Silver Member
Moscow's 526

If I could run 526.....I would get to 525 , and miss on purpose to honor the great Mosconi and what he did for the game !!!

No one else should hold this record.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I could run 526.....I would get to 525 , and miss on purpose to honor the great Mosconi and what he did for the game !!!

No one else should hold this record.

If I could get to 526, I would never miss on purpose. I'd try to run another 526, or more.
 

classiccues

Enlightened.....
Silver Member
I really disagree that there would be no reason or incentive to do it. Every cue mfg, table company, etc.. that you performed the feat on would have a stake. Plus a guy like Schmidt may Pidgeon hole his sponsors into up front money.. say I am really going for the record and I need 10k for the expenses of a few weeks.

Thinks there is plenty of reasons for someone to go after it...

JV
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
If I could get to 526, I would never miss on purpose. I'd try to run another 526, or more.

I'm not sure exactly what happened with Mosconi, but if *I* got to 526, I don't think I could miss even if I *wanted* to. Talk about being on auto-pilot. With a handy I.V. standing by for nutrition and hydration, the sky would be the limit. I could see 3,000 looming...
 

terryhanna

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I really disagree that there would be no reason or incentive to do it. Every cue mfg, table company, etc.. that you performed the feat on would have a stake. Plus a guy like Schmidt may Pidgeon hole his sponsors into up front money.. say I am really going for the record and I need 10k for the expenses of a few weeks.

Thinks there is plenty of reasons for someone to go after it...

JV
John said Predator is buying the 407 run video from him.

Just think if he broke Mosconi's record what he could sell the rights for.
 
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Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If he worked at straight pool (which is a half table game) and not 9 ball or 10 ball, I think Jayson Shaw would bust that record wide open.
That guy is a first rate ball pocketing machine.
Naturally, it can never be proven, but in my opinion, Shaw would've beat Mosconi to death. All he had to do was leave Willie 9 feet away on that rail and Mosconi would've been dead meat.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
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Fixed that for ya! RIP Fast Larry...but you're right! :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

QUOTE=HawaiianEye;6271418]I don't think too many people are going to take "seriously" anything Fast Larry was authenticating.[/QUOTE]
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The link is probably somewhere above, but here it is again. This is an image of the affidavit that was signed at the time of the run. It is on the Smithsonian Institution website:
http://amhistory.si.edu/archives/images/d9744-4.jpg
That's a good posting.
I never saw that before.
That should settle up any arguments regarding "it didn't happen like people say" and all that stuff.
Willie Mosconi was king of the half table game...no question about it. Even Ronnie Allen and Grady Matthews admitted that. (although both said he wouldn't gamble a cent and would choke).
But what the dickens does that matter anyway? Whether he'd gamble or not is irrelevant.
My opinion is that Mosconi didn't like to make any bad or marginal bets just for the sake of the action itself....and there is zero wrong with being a smart gambler. I bet if he thought he had the best of it, he'd bet with both hands...........and win too.
He was no dumbass.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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A lot of people believe that Babe Cranfield ran 768 on a 4.5x9 in his usual pool hall in Syracuse. I'm one of those people. The record is not for practice runs. The record is for announced exhibitions. John's attempt is announced and recorded.

Pretty sure Mike Eufemia had a practice run over 600 on his special table in the poolroom he played in daily. I think it was 618.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
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Mosconi would travel room to room and play the local favorite -- he had no input on who the local room put up against him.

Many of these guys could play and occasionally he'd get beat. It is unfair to say he just played someone who could hold a stick. And yes, sometimes he'd remind an opponent who the crowd was there to see if they spent too much time at the table either running balls or playing a lot of safeties and intention scratches.

There's a good Mosconi quote out there somewhere that I'm thinking of about playing amateurs in these exhibitions and how they all hoped to have their best day playing against him but I can't recall were I read it.

Lou Figueroa

There were a few guys who did beat Mosconi in exhibitions. I used to remember a couple of names but they escape me now. In my particular case, Mosconi was originally scheduled to play Pancho, who was a fairly strong player, capable of 60 or 70 ball runs. Mosconi refused to play him on the grounds that Pancho was a hustler. I was Pancho's replacement. ;)
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Pretty sure Mike Eufemia had a practice run over 600 on his special table in the poolroom he played in daily. I think it was 618.

Jay - I believe I heard way back that Tom Jennings also ran a high 500s - low 6s. Do you recall anything like that or is my brain in a more advanced state of atrophy than I thought...?
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
That's a good posting.
I never saw that before.
That should settle up any arguments regarding "it didn't happen like people say" and all that stuff.
Willie Mosconi was king of the half table game...no question about it. Even Ronnie Allen and Grady Matthews admitted that. (although both said he wouldn't gamble a cent and would choke).
But what the dickens does that matter anyway? Whether he'd gamble or not is irrelevant.
My opinion is that Mosconi didn't like to make any bad or marginal bets just for the sake of the action itself....and there is zero wrong with being a smart gambler. I bet if he thought he had the best of it, he'd bet with both hands...........and win too.
He was no dumbass.

Not completely true. There is a famous story passed down from generation to generation in oral history about the time Nicky Vacchiano trapped Willie in a bad game. This was in Philly, home haunts for both these men. Willie thought 9-Ball was joke, much to simple a game for him to bother with. Nicky somehow got Mosconi to spot him the five and the break on a 10' table. He had the nuts, or so he thought. They bet 500 each as I originally heard the story. This was in the early 1960's when that was a big bet.

But Nicky made one mistake. He failed over and over again to make a ball on the break and left Willie a look at the table. Almost every time, Willie promptly ran out. In the end, Willie outran the "nut's" and got the money. One of the rare times that Nicky Vac lost! Nicky went on to make millions gambling in Vegas. He was considered one of the smartest gamblers of his time.
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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Jay - I believe I heard way back that Tom Jennings also ran a high 500s - low 6s. Do you recall anything like that or is my brain in a more advanced state of atrophy than I thought...?

I know about Jennings but never heard of him running that many balls. The last great high run master we had before Schmidt was Lou Butera, who no one would play a long challenge match with back in the day. Lou could regularly bust off 200's and would do it for the money too. I don't know of anyone who ever beat him in a long challenge match and he played several great players that way. They couldn't fade his high runs.

Lou was a family man, grinding out a living running poolrooms and playing the occasional tournament. But if challenged to gamble he would get up there and shoot your nuts off. I saw him play the regular $20 a man Ten Ball ring game that was held often at Marina Billiards. It attracted top talent like Marvin Henderson, Richie Florence, Jack Cooney, Ronnie Allen, Grady Mathews, Bob Osborne, Jimmy Reid and Jimmy Marino. Lou Butera was a regular winner in that game. Something about that Straight Pool background makes 9-Ball or Ten Ball seem like a relatively easy game.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
I know about Jennings but never heard of him running that many balls. The last great high run master we had before Schmidt was Lou Butera, who no one would play a long challenge match with back in the day. Lou could regularly bust off 200's and would do it for the money too. I don't know of anyone who ever beat him in a long challenge match and he played several great players that way. They couldn't fade his high runs.

Lou was a family man, grinding out a living running poolrooms and playing the occasional tournament. But if challenged to gamble he would get up there and shoot your nuts off. I saw him play the regular $20 a man Ten Ball ring game that was held often at Marina Billiards. It attracted top talent like Marvin Henderson, Richie Florence, Jack Cooney, Ronnie Allen, Grady Mathews, Bob Osborne, Jimmy Reid and Jimmy Marino. Lou Butera was a regular winner in that game. Something about that Straight Pool background makes 9-Ball or Ten Ball seem like a relatively easy game.

I can't recall where I heard that but it's been many many years ago. I also heard he ran 400 once, practicing, then unscrewed saying he had to go grade papers or had a class to get to or something like that. Those Jersey guys were brutal. :grin:

I saw Butera once but don't remember where it was. At a tourney somewhere in the 70s. He wasn't in the field but he *was* in action. Monster player. A real whirlwind.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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Pretty sure Mike Eufemia had a practice run over 600 on his special table in the poolroom he played in daily. I think it was 618.
Eufemia stated in his book on straight pool that it was 625. He stated that it was an exhibition. He also gives the date and I believe the location. I don't have a copy of his book with me right now or I would check it, but it was certainly 625 which is an anagram of Mosconi's run. With luck John will run 652.

Eufemia's run was not accepted as a record due to lack of documentation, as I understand it.

Bob <-- who used to live at a street address of 562
 
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