Black Pool Players Matter

jay helfert said:
Once again I feel so fortunate to have known and been friends with almost all these guys being discussed on here. First of all I will add my list of the greatest black pool players of all time in no particular order, other than my own opinion.

1. It has to be James Evans, the man considered by his peers to have been the equal of Ralph Greenleaf.

2. Marvin Henderson, possessor of the most beautiful stance and stroke (along with Ed Kelly) that I ever saw on any pool player. Marvin was a thing of beauty to watch play. He was like the icing on the cake the way he smooth stroked those balls. He caressed them rather than hit them. And the balls loved him back for treating them so well. And he was my dear, dear friend! My eyes water up when I talk about him. He always had a big smile for me and an invitation to join him, whether it was having a beer, going out for dinner or just some bar hopping for fun. And yes, we did have a smoke or two or three together, getting high and laughing at the world. It broke my heart when I heard he died. I loved Marvin Henderson the man, not the pool player.

3. Cisero Murphy, only one of the absolute best players of his generation, right up there with Lassiter, Balsis, Crane and all the rest. Another fine man, who was soft spoken and let his cue do the talking. He remained humble his entire life and never let the obstacles he faced discourage him or his love for the game. Probably my second best friend after Marvin. I had mad respect for Cisero. He was a legitimate world champion and worthy addition to the BCA HOF.

4. James "Rags" Wood, an early mentor to me when I traversed the black poolrooms of L.A. He was the king of the L.A. ghetto and everyone respected him, gangsters and players alike. Rags was known coast to coast and all the top players knew who he was. He could play all games and he led a stable of great black players from L.A., all of whom he influenced in their games. Another warm and friendly man who looked out for the underdog and lived a life of honor, even among the outlaws who populated the poolrooms of his era. He and Marvin had several memorable encounters with no clear cut winner.

5. Cliff Joyner, one of the most talented men with a cue that I ever met. For many years, he was the second best One Pocket player in the country, with only Efren rated ahead of him. He had the most powerful and consistent stroke of just about anybody, able to overpower the balls and the table, and make them do his bidding. He also became my friend and partner and we made some pretty good money in our time together. Contrary to popular opinion Cliff could play all games on any table, even winning both divisions of the U.S. Bar Table one year.

6. Cecil "The Serpent" Tugwell, one of the most talented cueman I ever met, but his temper got in the way of his greatness. When he got mad his game diminished. When he kept it under control he was near unbeatable. I took him on the road a couple of times and all he did was win, win, win. After he broke his wrist I thought he was done and a year later he came back playing left handed almost as good as he played righty before, but not quite. By far the best player I ever saw to switch hands during the prime of his career.

7. Bugs Rucker belongs right up there among the greats but I didn't know him nearly as well. I do know that he played the best One Pocket players (Ronnie, Shorty and Taylor) dead even and not many could do that. He, along with Taylor, were considered the best Bank Pool players of their era and maybe of all time.

That's about it for now. Thanks for reading.
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Jay, have you heard anything of Cliff Joyner lately?
I used to see him here in B'ham occasionally.
I know he had a stroke a couple years ago, (?, time doesn't register correctly in my head anymore).
I've asked a few folks around here in the last few months, nobody knows.
 
Jay,

It is wonderful to have known great players and to have spent significant time with them.

Gathering great players around you improves many aspects of your game and your
person. I hope you contributed in some way to their successes.

Great post.

Al
 
Hey Jay!
Tell some folks about L.A. Shorty,
aka "Come to the table."
He had some wild stories about the "good old days."
Always had a good time when he was around.
 
Johnny Rosato said:
Jay, have you heard anything of Cliff Joyner lately?
I used to see him here in B'ham occasionally.
I know he had a stroke a couple years ago, (?, time doesn't register correctly in my head anymore).
I've asked a few folks around here in the last few months, nobody knows.
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Like most of the folks here, I always enjoyed watching Cliff play at DCC. It seems he was in constant action. I was watching him gamble $50 a game 9 ball and while he was winning, watching him play 9 ball wasnt nearly as interesting as watching him play one pocket.

I caught him during a break and got to talk to him and asked him what was he doing playing 9 ball, and he laughed and said it was the only action he could get at the time, and he was here for action.

In recent years, I was saddened watching him. He is probably 2-3 balls weaker than he was years ago. I guess it happens to everyone, but that stroke really did a number on him.

Ken
 
mikemosconi said:
Murphy must have played with a Balabushka- sure looks like one in his hands in the photo above.
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I believe I read somewhere that it was the earliest remaining known Balabushka in existence. Murphy went to a tournament and was walking across the parking lot carrying it . a guy asked what he was doing and he said he was going to raffle the cue, the guy said how much and Murphy said 1000.00, the guy just bought it outright.
I heard he was offered something like 40 grand for it before he left the place but not positive of source.
I was fortunate to have met a guy in the Chicago area about 30 years ago who was a collector.
He had a painting of some of the early 1900s players from the Black tournaments. I tried to get a photo of it just for historical value , but he was afraid I would do something to monetize it and passed.
I haven't heard about him in years , hope he is all right , if he is not, or has passed, I hope he left the painting with someone who will preserve it , one day maybe this sport will have a following for other things besides cues. His name was Ed. If anyone knows him , I would love to talk to him, PM me for my number, if he is interested,
I came there with Tim. He will know who I am talking about.
 
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Johnny Rosato said:
Jay, have you heard anything of Cliff Joyner lately?
I used to see him here in B'ham occasionally.
I know he had a stroke a couple years ago, (?, time doesn't register correctly in my head anymore).
I've asked a few folks around here in the last few months, nobody knows.
Click to expand...

I saw Cliff in New Orleans a couple of weeks ago. He was hitting a few balls and playing some 1P. Cliff is a super nice guy to play, I’ve enjoyed playing him.
 
There’s a large well built black player that I first played at Cue and cushion south of Lambert field, St Louis. I’ve also played him a few times at Buffalo’s during a couple of the big 1P tournaments. Super nice guy, always has a gold chain with cross on it. He must be in his late 50’s or 60’s. Plays real good 1P. I can’t remember his name. Can someone help me out with his name? Thanks
 
jtompilot said:
There’s a large well built black player that I first played at Cue and cushion south of Lambert field, St Louis. I’ve also played him a few times at Buffalo’s during a couple of the big 1P tournaments. Super nice guy, always has a gold chain with cross on it. He must be in his late 50’s or 60’s. Plays real good 1P. I can’t remember his name. Can someone help me out with his name? Thanks
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Danny Hill.....

Will Prout
 
4scarecrow said:
I know Lee Norton from Omaha. I play cheap sets with him now and again. Great with the 3-card monte. Seen him rob a bunch of guys like that. He’s a very accomplished player and a good guy to know. A very entertaining guy to watch work.
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I remember him.

I played him a number of times and won all but one time. Its burned in my memory.

At a 9 ball tournament at Pinky's, circa 94. He wins the first game. I played good enough to string a couple 2s and 3s together with a couple lock up safety's in between. So it's 8-1 and he has been yapping a little all in fun.

My break.. Made a ball... Got on the 1, but the 6 and 7 are tied up under the side with the 5 near them. I scratched on the break out.

I got 4 more turns at the table. Each one of them was at least a 2 rail kick. I hit the ball on all of them. I lost 9-8. He made sure everybody playing knew he came back from being down
8-1. Lol

I only know enough about 3 card Monte to know not to play with him. I too saw him rob people at it.

One time at Big Johns a couple guys come in from out of town. It's snowing and about 11pm. 10 min later Lee has them outside. I'd never seen 3 card Monte in person before. I was in a game for 20s and the guy I was playing says we are taking a break to watch. Ok. We go outside and Lee is on his knees blowing off snow for a place for the cards. It went on for a little bit. On the last bet the guys were talking and trying to pick a card an he said to them would you pick i am freezing my ass off here. They pick... They lose. He grabs the money and was back inside in seconds.

Lol... He busted them and they never even got to play pool.
 
Csim said:
I remember him.

I played him a number of times and won all but one time. Its burned in my memory.

At a 9 ball tournament at Pinky's, circa 94. He wins the first game. I played good enough to string a couple 2s and 3s together with a couple lock up safety's in between. So it's 8-1 and he has been yapping a little all in fun.

My break.. Made a ball... Got on the 1, but the 6 and 7 are tied up under the side with the 5 near them. I scratched on the break out.

I got 4 more turns at the table. Each one of them was at least a 2 rail kick. I hit the ball on all of them. I lost 9-8. He made sure everybody playing knew he came back from being down
8-1. Lol

I only know enough about 3 card Monte to know not to play with him. I too saw him rob people at it.

One time at Big Johns a couple guys come in from out of town. It's snowing and about 11pm. 10 min later Lee has them outside. I'd never seen 3 card Monte in person before. I was in a game for 20s and the guy I was playing says we are taking a break to watch. Ok. We go outside and Lee is on his knees blowing off snow for a place for the cards. It went on for a little bit. On the last bet the guys were talking and trying to pick a card an he said to them would you pick i am freezing my ass off here. They pick... They lose. He grabs the money and was back inside in seconds.

Lol... He busted them and they never even got to play pool.
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I would be willing to bet I was there also. Are you from Omaha or Lincoln?
 
Csim said:
I lived in Lincoln then, but that happened in Omaha. U?
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Grew up in Omaha. Started playing at Big John's when I was 16 (1986) and played there almost daily for about 5 or 6 years then not quite daily but a few times a week for many years. Left Omaha in 2004.

I visited sometime around 2010 and ended up seeing Lee at BJ's. We played $5 games and I won 9 in a row and he quit. I hadn't played him too much and that was definitely the worst I ever beat him. I told him to keep it for all the lessons he gave me when growing up.
 
Csim said:
I remember him.

I played him a number of times and won all but one time. Its burned in my memory.

At a 9 ball tournament at Pinky's, circa 94. He wins the first game. I played good enough to string a couple 2s and 3s together with a couple lock up safety's in between. So it's 8-1 and he has been yapping a little all in fun.

My break.. Made a ball... Got on the 1, but the 6 and 7 are tied up under the side with the 5 near them. I scratched on the break out.

I got 4 more turns at the table. Each one of them was at least a 2 rail kick. I hit the ball on all of them. I lost 9-8. He made sure everybody playing knew he came back from being down
8-1. Lol

I only know enough about 3 card Monte to know not to play with him. I too saw him rob people at it.

One time at Big Johns a couple guys come in from out of town. It's snowing and about 11pm. 10 min later Lee has them outside. I'd never seen 3 card Monte in person before. I was in a game for 20s and the guy I was playing says we are taking a break to watch. Ok. We go outside and Lee is on his knees blowing off snow for a place for the cards. It went on for a little bit. On the last bet the guys were talking and trying to pick a card an he said to them would you pick i am freezing my ass off here. They pick... They lose. He grabs the money and was back inside in seconds.

Lol... He busted them and they never even got to play pool.
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Three card monte used to always be played on a newspaper "so the spread could be picked up quickly if the man showed up." In reality the newspaper was the key to the game. A good dealer could swap cards from under a leaf of the newspaper quicker or smoother than the eye can see even when you are watching for the change. I literally drug a friend away from a three card monte game he wanted to buck. No easy task when he was a six foot five oilfield roughneck. Mike had drank a few beers and he was positive he could beat the game. Nobody could beat the old game unless it was to collect while the dealer was raising the bet then quit without warning.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Three card monte used to always be played on a newspaper "so the spread could be picked up quickly if the man showed up." In reality the newspaper was the key to the game. A good dealer could swap cards from under a leaf of the newspaper quicker or smoother than the eye can see even when you are watching for the change. I literally drug a friend away from a three card monte game he wanted to buck. No easy task when he was a six foot five oilfield roughneck. Mike had drank a few beers and he was positive he could beat the game. Nobody could beat the old game unless it was to collect while the dealer was raising the bet then quit without warning.

Hu
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Nobody could get Lee. I once saw him use the money card to point at the other two cards and bend the corner on purpose. He would lay the two dead cards face up and hold the money card and would intentionally take the money card and tap the losing cards and say stuff like "these two won't make you any money, this one does". Meanwhile, he was intentionally bending the corner of the money card when tapping the dead cards and acting like he was trying to fix it so they would see the corner was bent. Then, during the game and without anyone seeing it, including me, he would bend the corner of a losing card and straighten the corner of the money card. They picked the bent corner every time. Truly amazing.

And I'm not sure if I've said this before but he once played a guy and only shot from the head of the table on an 8' table. Clearly he used a bridge but he won. It was pretty funny.
 
does the name Rotation Slim ring anybody's bell? In the mid 60's in Dover De this old black gentleman came in one night and lost about $100 to just an average guy. next night cames back and gets in a game of $5 nine ball with the room owner. They played all night, Albert the room owner was a decent shot but only on the local level. But Slim was betting everybody on the side on shots, hardly missed. part of his shick was he would get up on the table then have to ask for help to get off. think he had to be 60-70 years old. Might have been from Philly area.
 
Franky4Eyes said:
Hey Jay!
Tell some folks about L.A. Shorty,
aka "Come to the table."
He had some wild stories about the "good old days."
Always had a good time when he was around.
Click to expand...
He was actually a helluva player, Johnny ? (I forget his last name now). He had many names; Texas Shorty, Crippled Shorty (he had a pronounced limp) and "Come to the Table" which was his favorite line when making a game. He was maybe 5'4" tall and had a jovial friendly manner. As a younger man he had played just about all the top white players and beat most of them. He told me about some big scores he made off name players in years gone by. He kept right on playing as he got older and last time I saw him was maybe 20 years ago when he came into my last poolroom to say hi. I guess he's gone now. He would be well into his 80's if not.

Not to be confused with California Shorty, a damn good undercover One Pocket player, who was also Afro-American. Then there was Black Nate, who was slick as they come. A jam up hustler in pool and golf. He always had a pocketful of hundreds and drove a new Caddy. He was living in Detroit last I heard. He made an appearance or two at DCC back in the early 2000's, action only of course.
 
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