Bonus Ball starts May 30th

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
LOL @ "seniority." If any successful business followed this approach, they'd be closing the doors in months.

There's also a lot of speculation and assumption here. Have any players or staff told you that players demanded to play certain events or you just assuming?

Go watch a cartoon kid.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
Go watch a cartoon kid.

LOL. That's a great way to avoid answering any questions and provide a sensible argument.

Your above post was about 10 paragraphs on why BB should be courteous and not worry about what's in their best interest as a business.

All this "working together" has been going on for years and players still can't make a living. So your argument is that bonus ball should do their best to keep pool in the state its in?? I don't see all the promoters that are "working together" finding sponsorships that are willing to fund pool or figuring out a successful way to find spectators. So.....how many more years should bonus ball or any other new promotion give these guys to become successful, 5, 15, 50 more years to try the same thing?

I honestly don't see BB working, but I also know that eventually all this trying to hold hands and get along doesn't work. Other sports have shown us this already.

Someone call up the UFC, MLB, NFL, NBA, PGA, etc......inform them they should be working around other promotion's schedules....
 
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cabilliardclub

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What does not make sense to you Nathan?

He stated clearly that pool halls and various promotors have been "working together" to schedual events that A) do not conflict and B) help the players attend the events because they bunch the events up close together both geographically and date-wise.

It benefits the players to have to make one trip to one area of the country to play in three different consecutive events over a relatively short period of time so that it minimizes air travel costs and lodging expense. Each tournament in turn benefits from the synergy of being part of a "leg" of a tour like this because the cumulative consectutive events all with decent added money are offering more incentive to the professionals to play in all of those events. Each event on its own might not be enough incentive for a pro to play on its own as the expense is too great to travel to a single event, but as a leg with 3 events all that size the economics make more sense.

It is in that way that pool promotors and tournaments directors are starting to work together.

Bonus Ball on the other hand is the new kid in town, and you are the ones that are not comming in and seeing how you can fit into a pool scene that is trying very hard to create an effective professional circuit.

Bonus Ball itself might benefit if it were to work with other pool promotions and attempt to add to the synergy that is already being created, but Bonus Ball has not attempted to contact those organizations and tournaments that are already in place and that pre-date Bonus Ball.

You ask why they have not tried to contact Bonus Ball to work something out, why instead did not Bonus Ball attempt to contact them and work something out, since those promotors and events in fact pre-date yours and have seniority and traditional dates for their events and have had such for years?

If Bonus Ball comes into this sport paying the players flat fees to play for funsies and conflicts with events already in place and lowers the number of pros that go to those other events those other events WILL suffer. Bonus Ball seems to have the mentality that this is OK and that they want to become "pro pool" in time and wipe out all of the other competition.

The problem is even YOU Nathan know enough to say "IF Bonus Ball has a second season", it is not a sure fire success and if it does indeed fail and in so doing causes a bunch of schedualing conflicts that take 10 professional players out of well established professional events that already exist and do well then Bonus Ball has the chance of causing MORE damage to the sport of professional pool then simply it's own demise. It may very well take out some already established events that suffer due to BB schedules not allowing the pros the ability to play in events they traditionally played in, lowering the fan interest in those events as a result, and causing an inevitable loss to pool of not only Bonus Ball but the other events that it refused to work with and schedule around.

You worked around the events you HAD to work around to get certain pros to commit to BB. Darren's statement is clear, he would play in your bonus ball league and take your moeny for doing so, but he wanted to be clear that he is going to play in the major international events that he tends to win on occasional such as world championships. You scheduled around some events for at least some players because you needed those players in your league to be legit and those players were not going to take a chance on your league and miss those events for you. Darren likely flat out told you "I need to play in the world 10-ball, the world 8-ball, ect..." and you said "ok, we will make sure not to schedule your match during the list of events you give us that you need/want to play in".

You did not schedule around certain events because you respect those events or the promotors, you scheduled around them because many of your professional pool players in your league told you they were not going to play in your league if it meant missing those events.

Very well said Celtic. You understand our concern.

Chris
 

D_Lewis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With all of BB's millions of dollars they claim to want to invest in pool, you'd think they'd invest a little in a public relations department, as opposed to having their minions posting on AzBilliards about the upcoming events. It's crazy! A professional public affairs person with expertise in communication would be helpful to BB. :)


There are press releases from 'bonus ball' that are posted via the website.

If they have an avenue to answer questions on here, why not use it? If you had a question, would you prefer to email something similar to 'questions@bonusball.com' or post it on here and have everyone get the answer to your question also?
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
The two web sites appear to be very nearly identical. If you intend them for different purposes, you need to have distinctly different designs.

I think the old one was during the "barry" days. Apparently they can't take it down, or for some reason they haven't.

I agree though, its bad for business.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
There are press releases from 'bonus ball' that are posted via the website.

If they have an avenue to answer questions on here, why not use it? If you had a question, would you prefer to email something similar to 'questions@bonusball.com' or post it on here and have everyone get the answer to your question also?

Her point is they have too many people talking. It gets confusing coming from more than one official source. AZB is a great place for them, but needs to be more organized.
 
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JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
There are press releases from 'bonus ball' that are posted via the website.

If they have an avenue to answer questions on here, why not use it? If you had a question, would you prefer to email something similar to 'questions@bonusball.com' or post it on here and have everyone get the answer to your question also?

Me personally, if I would not use this forum as a communications vehicle, but that's just me.

If you notice, there are many industry professionals don't post often, if at all, on this forum.
 

D_Lewis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very well said Celtic. You understand our concern.

Chris

When you run an added money event, are there stipulations that require a certain number of players to attend? Is there a stipulation that a certain percentage of pros have to attend? Do you think if Bonus Ball players do not all attend your event, that your event will not be successful? Understandably the more pros you have, the more spectators you have, the less chance you lose money on the event and the better chance you have to turn a profit. I get that, I want everyone to make money.

Personally I'd love to be able to play in that set of tournaments on the west coast. I have zero chance of cashing and I'm not the typical pool player who buys one cup of coffee a day, I support the pool room whether by eating or drinking on site. I love going to events where there are top pros and I'd fall into the category listed above that I would come to watch and still pay to watch/pay for food etc if I was there.
 

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
Someone call up the UFC, MLB, NFL, NBA, PGA, etc......inform them they should be working around other promotion's schedules....

Actually, other then the UFC all of those promotions do work with lower level professional leagues, many have lower teirs that house the farm teams, the PGA works with many of the lower level tours and those lower level tours are where many of the future PGA players come from and the PGA has a seniors tour they work VERY close with where the older pros then are able to play in. Many leagues you mentioned above work with other organizations for the better of ALL of the players in their sport.
 

D_Lewis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Me personally, if I would not use this forum as a communications vehicle, but that's just me.

If you notice, there are many industry professionals don't post often, if at all, on this forum.

Allen Hopkins Jr (on behalf of SBE)
Charlie Williams
Mark Griffin
Justin Collett
Barry Berhman (US Open? Spelling wrong)
Mike Zuglan

Just to name a few.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
Actually, other then the UFC all of those promotions do work with lower level professional leagues, many have lower teirs that house the farm teams, the PGA works with many of the lower level tours and those lower level tours are where many of the future PGA players come from and the PGA has a seniors tour they work VERY close with where the older pros then are able to play in. Many leagues you mentioned above work with other organizations for the better of ALL of the players in their sport.

No they don't. They use lower level tours to feed their tour, but they do not schedule around them. This is likely what would happen if bonus ball takes off. The other promotions will basically be the feeding tours where amateurs hone their skills before being drafted by bonus ball. That's a big if though, as bonus ball has a long way to go.

Name one MLB, NBA, NFL game that is scheduled around another leagues games so that other league can have a game or tournament.

None of the players in those leagues play in other leagues, unless its a league while they are off such as winter league for MLB players.

So......again, feel free to show an example of how any other of the sports work their schedule so that other promotions can make money off the same players.
 
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Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
I had a PM from Nathan, I won't post his message as it is a PM but I will post part of my response to him here as he asked in this thread

Nathandumoulin said:
You're asking him to make a sacrifice for you, yet you're not offering him anything in return.

Celtic said:
I am not a pool promotor with an established pool tournament with pros who traditionally come to the event year after year who are now unable to come to the event because Bonus Ball scheduled a conflict in their schedule with pre-existing events and said in response "why shouldn't we do that? What have you ever done for us???"

Those events helped you "friends" make a living as professional pool players for the years up to present, the years up to when Bonus Ball has existed, that is what those previous events have done for you.

Events prior to Bonus Ball MADE Johnny Archer into Johnny Archer, they made Earl Strickland into Earl Strickland, They made Darren Appleton into the feared world champ he is, the fact that all of your players are well recognized professional pool players who have huge titles under their belts and the things that made them world famous were the events that pre-date your Bonus Ball, you are now going to cash in on that fame that events before you have helped create and that is great, but how about not saying "what have you ever done for us" to the other promotions that already exist and insted realize that all of the promotions and events that came before Bonus Ball are the reason that you "friends" were able to become famous world champion pool players and make a living playing pool before you came around to attempt to cash in on that fame.

Your statement was entirely ignorant of all of the above, it was disrespectful to the people who have laid the groundwork that actually allows BB to exist and you and the rest of the BB people should be showing ALOT more respect and gratitude to those people and working WITH them and not AGAINST them because it is them that created the main draw of your product you are now selling.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Allen Hopkins Jr (on behalf of SBE)
Charlie Williams
Mark Griffin
Justin Collett
Barry Berhman (US Open? Spelling wrong)
Mike Zuglan

Just to name a few.
Of those, only Allen, Mark and Justin actually participate in discussions, unless I've missed something.

I think BB needs to pay attention to what Lou F. said.
 
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JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
Allen Hopkins Jr (on behalf of SBE)
Charlie Williams
Mark Griffin
Justin Collett
Barry Berhman (US Open? Spelling wrong)
Mike Zuglan

Just to name a few.

Mike Zuglan does *not* post on AzBilliards. Barry Behrman does *not* post on AzBilliards. Both of them do, however, provide press releases to be posted on AzBilliards Main Page for informational purposes.

Charlie Williams? Not sure. He has multiple identities here.

The others you mention, their target audience, it would seem to me, is AzBilliards forum members. It would not benefit them to advertise, say, on craigslist. ;)
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
I had a PM from Nathan, I won't post his message as it is a PM but I will post part of my response to him here as he asked in this thread

Regardless, what promotions other players played in the past has no bearing what so ever on this.

Should the guy who invented the toilet get a kick back from every plumber who installs one? He makes money off something someone else thought of.

I have yet to see a legitimate reason BB benefits from changing their schedule.

Do you really think if say Johnny Archer didn't play in the US Open this year anyone would not watch him play in bonus ball?

If you were a pro player, would you rather play in a league where you get paid just to play, regardless of the outcome......or would you rather pay travel expenses to go play in one of these other tournaments where you have to place in the top 5 just to break even?
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Your above post was about 10 paragraphs on why BB should be courteous and not worry about what's in their best interest as a business. ...
In thinking about this some more, I've concluded that you're probably right. If BB is going to really succeed in a big way it needs to more or less eliminate other pool-related entertainment and events and maybe even other pool games. I would be sad to see that happen, but it is the logical conclusion.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
In thinking about this some more, I've concluded that you're probably right. If BB is going to really succeed in a big way it needs to more or less eliminate other pool-related entertainment and events and maybe even other pool games. I would be sad to see that happen, but it is the logical conclusion.

It is very sad to think about, but its the only logical way in which pool will ever become more like other sports. The other promotions have had their chance to become pool's savior/dominant force.....unfortunately they have failed. Will BB survive? Odds are, no....but the only way they stand a chance is with an all or nothing attitude.

Of course promotions such as TAR will be fine, as they can easily work around the BB schedule.
 
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JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
The biggest downside to BB is its location in Vegas. If I was going to Vegas, I would be interested in some of the other attractions Vegas has to offer. I can get my pool fix at home, or close by, where there's not as many distractions. Vegas has a lot to offer for tourists like me, aside from pool. :)

If I'm in Vegas, I want to gamble, see the shows, shop, et cetera. I even might like to hang out at the local pool room, but to sweat pro players playing a game with orange and purple balls just isn't attractive to me. And I love pool.

I wish BB all the luck in the world to be successful. I believe they are really going to need it.

I have noticed the stronger proponents of BB hail from Canada. I wonder why they didn't make the BB headquarters there.
 
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