Bonus Ball starts May 30th

dorabelle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are many more than 48 great pool players in the world to fill the spots in other events. It will be good to see some new faces. At the end of the day, tons of people like to watch 9ball and 10ball and one pocket and will continue to do so even if there is a new game.
 
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Reactions: JAM

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had a PM from Nathan, I won't post his message as it is a PM but I will post part of my response to him here as he asked in this thread

I am not a pool promotor with an established pool tournament with pros who traditionally come to the event year after year who are now unable to come to the event because Bonus Ball scheduled a conflict in their schedule with pre-existing events and said in response "why shouldn't we do that? What have you ever done for us???"

Those events helped you "friends" make a living as professional pool players for the years up to present, the years up to when Bonus Ball has existed, that is what those previous events have done for you.

Events prior to Bonus Ball MADE Johnny Archer into Johnny Archer, they made Earl Strickland into Earl Strickland, They made Darren Appleton into the feared world champ he is, the fact that all of your players are well recognized professional pool players who have huge titles under their belts and the things that made them world famous were the events that pre-date your Bonus Ball, you are now going to cash in on that fame that events before you have helped create and that is great, but how about not saying "what have you ever done for us" to the other promotions that already exist and insted realize that all of the promotions and events that came before Bonus Ball are the reason that you "friends" were able to become famous world champion pool players and make a living playing pool before you came around to attempt to cash in on that fame.

Your statement was entirely ignorant of all of the above, it was disrespectful to the people who have laid the groundwork that actually allows BB to exist and you and the rest of the BB people should be showing ALOT more respect and gratitude to those people and working WITH them and not AGAINST them because it is them that created the main draw of your product you are now selling.


Well said, Celtic.

Part of all this is that it’s tough to put a dollar value on goodwill within a community. Generally speaking, goodwill is more important within a smaller community than a larger one. In any case, most folks would agree that the pool community is a small one -- everyone of any consequence knows everyone else. So trampling on the long-standing and well-intentioned endeavors of others is going to eat up whatever goodwill was available to BB, in a hurry. Obviously some folks don't think goodwill within the small community that is pool is worth much. I guess we'll all eventually find out.

Lou Figueroa
 

richiebalto

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I cant wait to see whats going to happen when Bonus Ball and some big pool tournaments happen to be on the same dates!

We shall wait and see!
 

JAM

Pool and Snooker Railbird
Silver Member
I cant wait to see whats going to happen when Bonus Ball and some big pool tournaments happen to be on the same dates!

We shall wait and see!

The pool players will pledge allegience to the dollar. :)
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
The biggest downside to BB is its location in Vegas. If I was going to Vegas, I would be interested in some of the other attractions Vegas has to offer. I can get my pool fix at home, or close by, where there's not as many distractions. Vegas has a lot to offer for tourists like me, aside from pool. :)

If I'm in Vegas, I want to gamble, see the shows, shop, et cetera. I even might like to hang out at the local pool room, but to sweat pro players playing a game with orange and purple balls just isn't attractive to me. And I love pool.

I wish BB all the luck in the world to be successful. I believe they are really going to need it.

I have noticed the stronger proponents of BB hail from Canada. I wonder why they didn't make the BB headquarters there.

Agreed. Not to mention they are likely going to need a huge amount of PPV buys relative to what current pool events are bringing in.

Just some napkin math, 48 players x 1000k/wk = 48k/wk x 26 weeks = approx 1.2mil.

So.....needed 1.2mil in revenue from tickets + ppv + sponsors.....that's a lot of cheese to get out of pool spectators and sponsors.

I'd imagine they need at least 5,000 people to buy season PPV passes along with tickets and other things to break even.

Again this is just napkin math. Hopefully they've done their homework and did the required market research that shows its possible. From just an outsider's prospective of what I've seen so far, it looks more like they raised a lot of money with a pipe dream and don't really know if what the probability % of it working out is.

Hopefully I'm wrong.
 

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
If you were a pro player, would you rather play in a league where you get paid just to play, regardless of the outcome......or would you rather pay travel expenses to go play in one of these other tournaments where you have to place in the top 5 just to break even?

As a pro I would rather have the salary but as a fan I much preffer watching sports like Golf and Tennis where players get paid for their finish. I cannot stand watching most sports where players get salaries such as hockey, with the Flames games I have gone to half of the time the players are just going through the motions to get their paycheck and not putting a whole lot of effort in. You can see that from the difference between a regular season and playoff game.

I like to see pay based on performance.

That said pool is a struggling sport with low pay for even top perfoming players and THAT is something that has been discussed and has needed changed LONG before BB was even dreamed up.

I do think the players would be pretty happy with a pay for performance tour if it was regular events like the PGA schedule and had earnings potential more in line with other sports. Pool players themselves are partly to blame for the lack of this, their inner dealings/dumping on casino booked matches, walking out on the finals of tour championships, ect... these have not helped get or keep sponsors and grow the sport, they have done the opposite.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
Well said, Celtic.

Part of all this is that it’s tough to put a dollar value on goodwill within a community. Generally speaking, goodwill is more important within a smaller community than a larger one. In any case, most folks would agree that the pool community is a small one -- everyone of any consequence knows everyone else. So trampling on the long-standing and well-intentioned endeavors of others is going to eat up whatever goodwill was available to BB, in a hurry. Obviously some folks don't think goodwill within the small community that is pool is worth much. I guess we'll all eventually find out.

Lou Figueroa

Not that I disagree with this concept, but I have a question just for debating purposes:

Say BB doesn't schedule around the US Open(or pick whatever tour or tournament will fit your example best, I don't care)....what is the worst thing that can happen to BB for burning this goodwill?

I'm seriously asking the question, as I may very well be overlooking something important. I just don't see where they have much to lose.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
From my extremely uneducated viewpoint, it appears BB intends to save pro pool, or kill it in the process.

I agree with the others, it is going to be interesting to watch it play out.l
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
As a pro I would rather have the salary but as a fan I much preffer watching sports like Golf and Tennis where players get paid for their finish. I cannot stand watching most sports where players get salaries such as hockey, with the Flames games I have gone to half of the time the players are just going through the motions to get their paycheck and not putting a whole lot of effort in. You can see that from the difference between a regular season and playoff game.

I like to see pay based on performance.

That said pool is a struggling sport with low pay for even top perfoming players and THAT is something that has been discussed and has needed changed LONG before BB was even dreamed up.

I do think the players would be pretty happy with a pay for performance tour if it was regular events like the PGA schedule and had earnings potential more in line with other sports. Pool players themselves are partly to blame for the lack of this, their inner dealings/dumping on casino booked matches, walking out on the finals of tour championships, ect... these have not helped get or keep sponsors and grow the sport, they have done the opposite.

Totally agree with all of this.
 

JAM

Pool and Snooker Railbird
Silver Member
From my extremely uneducated viewpoint, it appears BB intends to save pro pool, or kill it in the process.

Pro pool in the United States at least has been circling the drain for a long time. Can't get much worse. That's for sure. :eek:
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
We've already seen that there will be a conflict with the West Coast leg....what happens when they run up against one or both of the Turning Stones? Or the US Open, if it ever happens again? Tunica? DCC or SBE next year? Maybe even the Mosconi Cup... Not to mention any of the overseas World Championships...

They've already said they gotta pay the rent on the building, gotta keep things rolling. No established event will be spared, either right away, or eventually. So hopefully those events find a way to survive while we all see if BB catches on, after which the existing events will go back to trying to build an industry for themselves and the players.

We shall see.
 

PETROBOY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How many players are involved with BB? It looks like 36 so BB is going to pay out 36,000 a week plus tens of thousands in rental space? where is this money going to come from?
How many people are in reality going to buy these streams? I really hope that no tournaments are affected very much by BB not changing their schedule but I see BB losing out anyway as people will buy streams from major tournaments and TAR so they will lose out on that income anyway.
 

bfdlad

T-Wheels
Silver Member
All I can say is that Bonus Ball/WPBL must know something that non of us know. I have said this to some of the pro players that I know personally because I just can't see how this is going to work. I am no marketing genius of businessman tycoon that can understand or unravel the mystery I see with the WPBL but from the outside I just don't get how they make money. I know they have the initial investors that are putting up the money but there is the key word "investors" They going to expect at some pot a return on investment. Breaking even does not cut it. Again, the WPBL MUST have something up their sleeve that makes them think that this will be a success.
Posters have speculated on the amount of PPV that is needed also sponsorship and the gate. I am not sure where the marketing is because if I didn't know Archer or Larry and Barry and some of the other players and didn't come on AZB I would have no clue that this was going on. SO to get some of these numbers that are needed to make WPBL a success there needs to be a massive reach to the league players all over the country and the world maybe but I am not seeing it to this point. I hope that WPBL is a success and that they are rewarded for their efforts and so in turn the industry. I just wish I knew what the plan is so I could be more positive.
As someone else stated I also hope that this does not kill the promoters all over the country from doing tourneys but I have a feeling alot of people are going to be affected.
All of a sudden in the not too distant future Bonus Ball/WPBL will have to play its hand and we will all see the bigger picture and I for one will probably sit shaking my head and saying to myself "Man, thats so obvious, why didn't I see this before?" That is of course that they have that master plan. Good luck to WPBL and again I hope that nobody gets hurt in the industry.
 

meximan2469

WPBL
Silver Member
If I'm in Vegas, I want to gamble, see the shows, shop, et cetera. I even might like to hang out at the local pool room, but to sweat pro players playing a game with orange and purple balls just isn't attractive to me. And I love pool.


Interesting..... What if you could come to Vegas go see a live pool "show" featuring the best players in the World, in an arena with cushy seats while having a beer and some popcorn surrounded by lights and entertainment and showgirls. What if you could even gamble on this at the same time...... hmm..... sounds interesting ;)
 

PETROBOY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Interesting..... What if you could come to Vegas go see a live pool "show" featuring the best players in the World, in an arena with cushy seats while having a beer and some popcorn surrounded by lights and entertainment and showgirls. What if you could even gamble on this at the same time...... hmm..... sounds interesting ;)

What is a pool show?
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
Interesting..... What if you could come to Vegas go see a live pool "show" featuring the best players in the World, in an arena with cushy seats while having a beer and some popcorn surrounded by lights and entertainment and showgirls. What if you could even gamble on this at the same time...... hmm..... sounds interesting ;)

Interesting to who? You think the average league player has a care in the world about seeing pool if he's/she'sin vegas? Especially not pool as they know it.

Pool or cirque du soleil? Pretty sure we know which one most will pick.

And what's this about being able to wager on it? This is something that should be released and advertised more than a month before the opening night. Were you guys planning on keeping that a secret, only to let it slip in some random forum post? :p
 
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justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Interesting..... What if you could come to Vegas go see a live pool "show" featuring the best players in the World, in an arena with cushy seats while having a beer and some popcorn surrounded by lights and entertainment and showgirls. What if you could even gamble on this at the same time...... hmm..... sounds interesting ;)

Well, they won't be gambling on it with the casino's, the pro's took care of that very nicely some time ago.

So when you mean gamble on it, do you mean making bets with others in attendance? Or will BB be setting up their own "book"? Given their history getting construction licenses, methinks they wont get far with the gaming commision...
 

Hawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So does anyone know how to avoid a scheduling conflict when you are trying to run a six month pro league. Should BB suspend it's operation for 3 consecutive weekends to accommodate the west coast swing? Thereby opening the door for a few of the 36-48 BB players to cash and the rest to lose 3 weeks of pay. What about the next month with different events?
Should the west Coast swing change to mid-week events? Should they schedule after the BB season? That's not reasonable either. So what's the answer?
 

cabilliardclub

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
not for the U.S.

I think everyone is missing what they are doing.

This BB is not for the U.S. it is being produced to show in Canada, China, Japan, Europe. This is where they have a better chance of the game taking off. It is a good idea and i believe they have sponsors in place overseas. They are able to go main stream tv in other countries where going main stream in the U.S. is not likely. TV is where the money is.
 
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