Bonus Ball starts May 30th

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
You say that Bonus Ball has to PAY for building usage. Well bud, We all have to pay for our businesses. Is my money less important than theirs?

Chris, that doesn't quite make sense.

You're asking Larry to pay several thousand extra in rent (a week with no means of generating income to cover rental costs) to schedule around your event. It would be his money, being spent for your sake. Yet, where does you spending money for his sake factor in? You're asking him to make a sacrifice for you, yet you're not offering him anything in return.

Also, you mention him not picking up the phone to call you, but did you ever consider calling him? It's a two way street.

I'm not trying to be negative here, as I'm just trying to explain the other side of the fence.

I do feel for you, so if you want to give us a call, we can talk to the players who are free that week and see if they wish to attend your event. In addition, since most teams only play one or two days, it may be possible for some players to play in both events.
 
Last edited:

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
In addition to the fact that scheduling weeks off to accommodate other events would result in tens of thousands in wasted rent, it's important to keep in mind the Bonus Ball players that don't attend a lot of other events.

Lots of these guys are moving to Vegas for Bonus Ball. They will rely on the ~$1000 pay check each week, yet if Bonus Ball schedules weeks off to accommodate other events, these other players will no longer receive a pay check during those weeks.

There's two sides to consider here, and it's not quite as black and white as other promoters would like to think.
 

cabilliardclub

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Chris, that doesn't quite make sense.

You're asking Larry to pay several thousand extra in rent (a week with no means of generating income to cover rental costs) to schedule around your event. It would be his money, being spent for your sake. Yet, where does you spending money for his sake factor in? You're asking him to make a sacrifice for you, yet you're not offering him anything in return.

Also, you mention him not picking up the phone to call you, but did you ever consider calling him? It's a two way street.

I'm not trying to be negative here, as I'm just trying to explain the other side of the fence.

I do feel for you, so if you want to give us a call, we can talk to the players who are free that week and see if they wish to attend your event. In addition, since most teams only play one or two days, it may be possible for some players to play in both events.

So I dont make sense? You want me and the rest of the owners to take a hit because your organization failed to hit your original schedule.

Everytime I come on here to talk about bonus ball you get defensive. I was stating our frustration I believe in a polit maner and you act like we are at fault. We have been in business for 16 years in one of the toughest markets out there. Bonus ball has not even started yet. Have some respect. I did not get on here to bash.

This is a perfect example of the hurdles that we deal with on a yearly basis in the pool community
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
In addition to the fact that scheduling weeks off to accommodate other events would result in tens of thousands in wasted rent, it's important to keep in mind the Bonus Ball players that don't attend a lot of other events.

Lots of these guys are moving to Vegas for Bonus Ball. They will rely on the ~$1000 pay check each week, yet if Bonus Ball schedules weeks off to accommodate other events, these other players will no longer receive a pay check during those weeks.

There's two sides to consider here, and it's not quite as black and white as other promoters would like to think.

While I don't always agree with some of the things bonus ball has done, I do agree with this.

I feel for any promoter that may suffer from scheduling conflicts, but their tours/tournaments don't pay the kind of money BB is currently offering. I don't understand why they think an operation the size of BB should work around them. Again, this has not been done in any other sport which has been successful.

If their tours/tournaments were big enough, they wouldn't be tip toeing around everyone else.

This is business, if you opened a plumbing business you wouldn't call up all the other plumbing businesses to make sure you didn't take their customers or step on their toes. Why should BB do this?
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
So I dont make sense? You want me and the rest of the owners to take a hit because your organization failed to hit your original schedule.

Everytime I come on here to talk about bonus ball you get defensive. I was stating our frustration I believe in a polit maner and you act like we are at fault. We have been in business for 16 years in one of the toughest markets out there. Bonus ball has not even started yet. Have some respect. I did not get on here to bash.

This is a perfect example of the hurdles that we deal with on a yearly basis in the pool community

Again, I'm not a fan of Bonus Ball.....but lets speak objectively.

Why should BB watch out for you? What does it do for them? What benefits are there for them if they schedule around you?

If I open a business tomorrow I'm not going to go around making sure I don't take business away from other businesses like my own. Neither would you.

So why should pool be any different? This is how capitalism works. If you or any other owners/promoters/tour directors had the means and/or success to run weekly events, you wouldn't be tip toeing around anyone else. You'd be running your business the way you see fit and holding weekly events.
 
Last edited:

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... If I open a business tomorrow I'm not going to go around making sure I don't take business away from other businesses like my own. Neither would you. ...

You seem to be saying that BB is the (economic) enemy of all other tournament promoters. Is that what you intended to say?
 

cabilliardclub

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Again, I'm not a fan of Bonus Ball.....but lets speak objectively.

Why should BB watch out for you? What does it do for them? What benefits are there for them if they schedule around you?

If I open a business tomorrow I'm not going to go around making sure I don't take business away from other businesses like my own. Neither would you.

So why should pool be any different?

Archer, You are right when it comes to the dog eat dog of the business world. I think we have lost that we as room owners put up the money for the players. I want pool to strive in the US, but reality is pool has taken major hits in the past couple of years (pro side) promoters not coming up with funds, Seminol pulling out taking $200,000 + of prize money and so on. What I have tried to do with all my competetors is create common ground were working together to improve our sport is top priority. Working together and scheduling events where the top pros can go from one event to another with less cost and travel.

I hope Bonus Ball works, but it can work in conjuction with what is working and create year round events that all the players can live on.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
You seem to be saying that BB is the (economic) enemy of all other tournament promoters. Is that what you intended to say?

Somewhat yes. They have built a facility that is only useable for bonus ball. Anytime BB isn't being played in the facility, its just sitting there doing nothing. So, anytime they take a week or two off to accommodate some other promotion, they lose money.

So, yes, in a way they are definitely competitors in the same industry.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I tried without luck to find out about attending in person at http://www.wpbl.tv/. Should I be looking somewhere else? What I'm interested in is info like:

1. Is the public permitted to attend?
2. Where is the BB arena?
3. How many seats are available and in what levels?
4. What is the cost of tickets?
5. How can I order tickets?
6. When does the arena open for those who do not have reserved seats?
Also useful would be:
7. Is there a nearby hotel so that I don't have to rent a car?
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
I hope Bonus Ball works, but it can work in conjuction with what is working and create year round events that all the players can live on.

If BB works out, they won't need other tours to do this though. That's pretty much the only way any other sport has worked out.

The unfortunate side effect if something like the IPT or BB ever really works, the smaller promotions are doomed.
 

JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
I tried without luck to find out about attending in person at http://www.wpbl.tv/. Should I be looking somewhere else? What I'm interested in is info like:

1. Is the public permitted to attend?
2. Where is the BB arena?
3. How many seats are available and in what levels?
4. What is the cost of tickets?
5. How can I order tickets?
6. When does the arena open for those who do not have reserved seats?
Also useful would be:
7. Is there a nearby hotel so that I don't have to rent a car?

With all of BB's millions of dollars they claim to want to invest in pool, you'd think they'd invest a little in a public relations department, as opposed to having their minions posting on AzBilliards about the upcoming events. It's crazy! A professional public affairs person with expertise in communication would be helpful to BB. :)
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
I tried without luck to find out about attending in person at http://www.wpbl.tv/. Should I be looking somewhere else? What I'm interested in is info like:

1. Is the public permitted to attend?
2. Where is the BB arena?
3. How many seats are available and in what levels?
4. What is the cost of tickets?
5. How can I order tickets?
6. When does the arena open for those who do not have reserved seats?
Also useful would be:
7. Is there a nearby hotel so that I don't have to rent a car?

Hopefully this is a problem BB will fix. Their marketing, PR, and general info is either confusing or just not readily available.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
I sure hope BB doesn't feel that way. The game doesn't need any more back-stabbers.

Why? Name another sport in which the dominant promotion didn't trample the other guys?

Also, how is it backstabbing? They set up a promotion, pay the players to show up, and run a business. Have they done something the public isn't aware of? I haven't seen where they worked with someone only to do the opposite of what they promised.

Or are you confusing backstabbing with capitalism?
 
Last edited:

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
IWhat I'm interested in is info like:

Bob, the actual website is wpbltv.com. To answer your questions:

1. Is the public permitted to attend?

Yes, all 156 matches will be public.

2. Where is the BB arena?

6745 Surrey St, Las Vegas, 89119

3. How many seats are available and in what levels?

Yes, we have 105 theater seats, a VIP row, and a "box seat" private room with a glass window raised over the arena that sits 10. We also have a liquor license, as well as a 10 table pool room attached.

4. What is the cost of tickets?

Still in debate, but very affordable ($15-$20'ish).

5. How can I order tickets?

On the website next week.

6. When does the arena open for those who do not have reserved seats?

Anytime youd like to come by, you're welcome.

7. Is there a nearby hotel so that I don't have to rent a car?

The La Quinta next door is only $70 per night, is brand new (2 years old), very clean, and quite cute.

Hope that helps.
 
Last edited:

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
Bob, the actual website is wpbltv.com. To answer your questions:

1. Is the public permitted to attend?

Yes, all 156 matches will be public.

2. Where is the BB arena?

6745 Surrey St, Las Vegas, 89119

3. How many seats are available and in what levels?

Yes, we have 105 theater seats, a VIP row, and a "box seat" private room with a glass window raised over the arena that sits 10. We also have a liquor license, as well as a 10 table pool room attached.

4. What is the cost of tickets?

Still in debate, but very affordable ($15-$20'ish).

5. How can I order tickets?

On the website next week.

6. When does the arena open for those who do not have reserved seats?

Anytime youd like to come by, you're welcome.

7. Is there a nearby hotel so that I don't have to rent a car?

The La Quinta next door is only $70 per night, is brand new (2 years old), very clean, and quite cute.

Hope that helps.

Can you guys get rid of the other website that is apparently out of date? That's not helping business I'm sure...
 

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
Chris, that doesn't quite make sense.

You're asking Larry to pay several thousand extra in rent (a week with no means of generating income to cover rental costs) to schedule around your event. It would be his money, being spent for your sake. Yet, where does you spending money for his sake factor in? You're asking him to make a sacrifice for you, yet you're not offering him anything in return.

What does not make sense to you Nathan?

He stated clearly that pool halls and various promotors have been "working together" to schedual events that A) do not conflict and B) help the players attend the events because they bunch the events up close together both geographically and date-wise.

It benefits the players to have to make one trip to one area of the country to play in three different consecutive events over a relatively short period of time so that it minimizes air travel costs and lodging expense. Each tournament in turn benefits from the synergy of being part of a "leg" of a tour like this because the cumulative consectutive events all with decent added money are offering more incentive to the professionals to play in all of those events. Each event on its own might not be enough incentive for a pro to play on its own as the expense is too great to travel to a single event, but as a leg with 3 events all that size the economics make more sense.

It is in that way that pool promotors and tournaments directors are starting to work together.

Bonus Ball on the other hand is the new kid in town, and you are the ones that are not comming in and seeing how you can fit into a pool scene that is trying very hard to create an effective professional circuit.

Bonus Ball itself might benefit if it were to work with other pool promotions and attempt to add to the synergy that is already being created, but Bonus Ball has not attempted to contact those organizations and tournaments that are already in place and that pre-date Bonus Ball.

You ask why they have not tried to contact Bonus Ball to work something out, why instead did not Bonus Ball attempt to contact them and work something out, since those promotors and events in fact pre-date yours and have seniority and traditional dates for their events and have had such for years?

If Bonus Ball comes into this sport paying the players flat fees to play for funsies and conflicts with events already in place and lowers the number of pros that go to those other events those other events WILL suffer. Bonus Ball seems to have the mentality that this is OK and that they want to become "pro pool" in time and wipe out all of the other competition.

The problem is even YOU Nathan know enough to say "IF Bonus Ball has a second season", it is not a sure fire success and if it does indeed fail and in so doing causes a bunch of schedualing conflicts that take 10 professional players out of well established professional events that already exist and do well then Bonus Ball has the chance of causing MORE damage to the sport of professional pool then simply it's own demise. It may very well take out some already established events that suffer due to BB schedules not allowing the pros the ability to play in events they traditionally played in, lowering the fan interest in those events as a result, and causing an inevitable loss to pool of not only Bonus Ball but the other events that it refused to work with and schedule around.

You worked around the events you HAD to work around to get certain pros to commit to BB. Darren's statement is clear, he would play in your bonus ball league and take your moeny for doing so, but he wanted to be clear that he is going to play in the major international events that he tends to win on occasional such as world championships. You scheduled around some events for at least some players because you needed those players in your league to be legit and those players were not going to take a chance on your league and miss those events for you. Darren likely flat out told you "I need to play in the world 10-ball, the world 8-ball, ect..." and you said "ok, we will make sure not to schedule your match during the list of events you give us that you need/want to play in".

You did not schedule around certain events because you respect those events or the promotors, you scheduled around them because many of your professional pool players in your league told you they were not going to play in your league if it meant missing those events.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
What does not make sense to you Nathan?

He stated clearly that pool halls and various promotors have been "working together" to schedual events that A) do not conflict and B) help the players attend the events because they bunch the events up close together both geographically and date-wise.

It benefits the players to have to make one trip to one area of the country to play in three different consecutive events over a relatively short period of time so that it minimizes air travel costs and lodging expense. Each tournament in turn benefits from the synergy of being part of a "leg" of a tour like this because the cumulative consectutive events all with decent added money are offering more incentive to the professionals to play in all of those events. Each event on its own might not be enough incentive for a pro to play on its own as the expense is too great to travel to a single event, but as a leg with 3 events all that size the economics make more sense.

It is in that way that pool promotors and tournaments directors are starting to work together.

Bonus Ball on the other hand is the new kid in town, and you are the ones that are not comming in and seeing how you can fit into a pool scene that is trying very hard to create an effective professional circuit.

Bonus Ball itself might benefit if it were to work with other pool promotions and attempt to add to the synergy that is already being created, but Bonus Ball has not attempted to contact those organizations and tournaments that are already in place and that pre-date Bonus Ball.

You ask why they have not tried to contact Bonus Ball to work something out, why instead did not Bonus Ball attempt to contact them and work something out, since those promotors and events in fact pre-date yours and have seniority and traditional dates for their events and have had such for years?

If Bonus Ball comes into this sport paying the players flat fees to play for funsies and conflicts with events already in place and lowers the number of pros that go to those other events those other events WILL suffer. Bonus Ball seems to have the mentality that this is OK and that they want to become "pro pool" in time and wipe out all of the other competition.

The problem is even YOU Nathan know enough to say "IF Bonus Ball has a second season", it is not a sure fire success and if it does indeed fail and in so doing causes a bunch of schedualing conflicts that take 10 professional players out of well established professional events that already exist and do well then Bonus Ball has the chance of causing MORE damage to the sport of professional pool then simply it's own demise. It may very well take out some already established events that suffer due to BB schedules not allowing the pros the ability to play in events they traditionally played in, lowering the fan interest in those events as a result, and causing an inevitable loss to pool of not only Bonus Ball but the other events that it refused to work with and schedule around.

You worked around the events you HAD to work around to get certain pros to commit to BB. Darren's statement is clear, he would play in your bonus ball league and take your moeny for doing so, but he wanted to be clear that he is going to play in the major international events that he tends to win on occasional such as world championships. You scheduled around some events for at least some players because you needed those players in your league to be legit and those players were not going to take a chance on your league and miss those events for you. Darren likely flat out told you "I need to play in the world 10-ball, the world 8-ball, ect..." and you said "ok, we will make sure not to schedule your match during the list of events you give us that you need/want to play in".

You did not schedule around certain events because you respect those events or the promotors, you scheduled around them because many of your professional pool players in your league told you they were not going to play in your league if it meant missing those events.

LOL @ "seniority." If any successful business followed this approach, they'd be closing the doors in months.

There's also a lot of speculation and assumption here. Have any players or staff told you that players demanded to play certain events or you just assuming?
 
Top