Breaking Stats -- 2011 US Open 9-Ball

sjm said:
Need to point out that the racker is required to place the two ball at the bottom of the rack, a very good rule that, to a large extent, eliminates pattern racking.

Without this rule, the break and run percentage would definitely be higher and the differential between loser racks and winner racks would be greater.
Click to expand...
There have been studies done of how the balls move around on the 9-ball break. When breaking with the 2 ball on the bottom of the rack, the 2 will hit the foot rail and then bounce back toward the head rail. So in effect, you've just made running the rack quite a bit easier.
 
Last edited:
sjm said:
Need to point out that the racker is required to place the two ball at the bottom of the rack, a very good rule that, to a large extent, eliminates pattern racking.

Without this rule, the break and run percentage would definitely be higher and the differential between loser racks and winner racks would be greater.

Hence, I'd argue that the comparison being made in this thread is inappropriate. Apples and oranges here.
Click to expand...

I have NO idea who came up with this, and even more surprising, who thinks it works.

The point of patter racking is to get the 1, 2, 3, 4, maybe 5 uptable. The back position is a GREAT spot to get the 2 uptable with the one, one of the best actually.

THANKS AGAIN TO THE OP BTW, THESE ARE GREAT STATS.
 
Last edited:
Wow! this is really great information. wonder why the third day not many break and run, maybe not A+++ players that day? Thanks much, great job.
 
naji said:
Wow! this is really great information. wonder why the third day not many break and run, maybe not A+++ players that day? Thanks much, great job.
Click to expand...

Right. Tuesday had losers bracket action only, so the standard could not have been expected to be as high as on a typical day.
 
AtLarge said:
I've been watching the US Open 9-ball matches streamed by Accu-Stats; they started Sunday. The conditions for this event include: Diamond Pro-Am table, Simonis cloth, Delta-13 Elite rack, winner breaks, breaker racks for himself, 2-ball must be racked at the back of the rack, break from the box, a 9-ball made on the break spots up if it went in either of the foot-rail pockets, no soft breaking (at least 3 balls must reach the side or be pocketed), and jump cues are allowed.

Through the first three days, we have had 18 matches (298 games) streamed, as follows:
Day 1 (10/16/11) -- Shuff def. Hjorliefson 11-2, Ussery d. Davenport 11-5, Wilke d. Morra 11-6, Hohmann d. Pole 11-1, Lo d. Deuel 11-8, and Gabica d. Schmidt 11-8.

Day 2 (10/17/11) -- Hatch d. Broumpton 11-5, Immonen d. Cohen 11-8, Van Boening d. Shuff 11-4, Pinegar d. Owen 11-7, Mazon d. Engel 11-8, and Pagulayan d. Hall 11-2.

Day 3 (10/18/11) -- Parica d. Al-Binali 11-4, Zvi d. Hendrickson 11-9, Hopkins d. Demet 11-9, Wiseman d. Reyna 11-3, Kang d. Zampko 11-4, and B. Bryant d. E. Dominguez 11-7​

The breaking results so far are as follows:

Breaker made at least one ball on the break and did not foul:
Day 1 -- 60 of 96 (63%)
Day 2 -- 59 of 100 (59%)
Day 3 -- 42 of 102 (41%)
3-day total -- 161 of 298 (54%)​

Breaker won the game:
Day 1 -- 58 of 96 (60%)
Day 2 -- 58 of 100 (58%)
Day 3 -- 55 of 102 (54%)
3-day total -- 171 of 298 (57%)​

Break-and-run games:
Day 1 -- 25 of 96 (26%)
Day 2 -- 22 of 100 (22%)
Day 3 -- 9 of 102 (9%)
3-day total -- 56 of 298 (19%)​


Edits: 10/18: added to list of conditions in first paragraph
10/19: updated for Day-3 results
Click to expand...

Wow, you can see those stats take a HUGE jump on day three. There are some saying it is the level of play, i'd partly agree. I bet these are also the guys that don't understand the rack as well too. This is made clear by that "breaker made a ball on the break.." stat. Wow.

This proves what i have said for a long time.... if you cant rack em, pack your bags. In essence, dont hold it against these guys for messing with the rack. If they dont do it, they arent out there. You see how that works??

What these stats are telling us in essence is the people who cant rack lose (ie cant rack the balls so as to be able to make one on the break).... as they are mostly all on the losers side.
 
Last edited:
The Chinchilla said:
Wow, you can see those stats take a HUGE jump on day three. There are some saying it is the level of play, i'd partly agree. I bet these are also the guys that don't understand the rack as well too. This is made clear by that "breaker made a ball on the break.." stat. Wow.

This proves what i have said for a long time.... if you cant rack em, pack your bags. In essence, dont hold it against these guys for messing with the rack. If they dont do it, they arent out there. You see how that works??

What these stats are telling us in essence is the people who cant rack lose (ie cant rack the balls so as to be able to make one on the break).... as they are mostly all on the losers side.
Click to expand...

I almost agree with you. The messing with the rack part I disagree with because when given a choice on a rack between leaving a space that may help the corner ball go and no spaces at all, I pick no spaces and will make the corner ball with more consistenency. So I do agree that people that can't rack do lose more when racking for themselves:grin:
 
I just updated Post #1 to include the results for the 6 matches streamed on Day 4.

For Day 4, the frequency of making a ball on the break and the frequency of the breaker winning the game were back up to about the same levels as on Days 1 and 2, but the frequency of break-and-run games remained at the relatively low level of Day 3.
 
9-balls on the break:
Day 1 -- 3 for a win; 0 spotted
Day 2 -- 1 for a win; 0 spotted
Day 3 -- 2 for a win; 2 spotted
Day 4 -- 0 for a win; 3 spotted
4-day total -- 6 for a win (1.5% of 393 breaks); 5 spotted (1.3%)​
 
Joe T said:
I almost agree with you. The messing with the rack part I disagree with because when given a choice on a rack between leaving a space that may help the corner ball go and no spaces at all, I pick no spaces and will make the corner ball with more consistenency. So I do agree that people that can't rack do lose more when racking for themselves:grin:
Click to expand...

Well, I agree with what you said, so maybe i posted something not clear, haha.

Take home point with these data: players that don't know how to rack (this can, and probably does, mean giving yourself a loose rack -- at least in certain spots) are losing, as it seems they are all on the losers side. In essence, racking is almost the whole game.

Maybe i'm taking too much from the data, but that is how i see it.

KUDOS to OP once again. If there is karma you got some comin. Thanks.
 
The numbers are going to be way up today! Some great pool in the first three matches.
 
I just updated Post #1 to include the results for the 6 matches streamed on Day 5.

Day 5 saw substantial bumps upward in the numbers, as many players now seem to be "dialed in" on the moderate-speed cut break making the wing ball. Successful breaks were made in 77% of the games and more than one-third of the games were break and runs!
 
Last edited:
AtLarge said:
I just updated Post #1 to include the results for the 6 matches streamed on Day 5.

Day 5 saw substantial bumps upward in the numbers, as many players now seem to be "dialed in" on the moderate-speed cut break making the wing ball. Successful breaks were made in 77% of the games and more than one-third of the games were break and runs!
Click to expand...

Your stats are just astounding. I would have never guessed the breaker winning the game percentage would go up that high, anywhere, anytime. Wow. I do think this is THE most important stat for us to be looking at too.

Along with your "dialed-in" sentiment, I would say, and yes sorry for repeating.... that these remaining players (ie the winners) are the guys that know how to give themselves a good rack, or at least i guess you could say they are the guys who don't often slug themselves on accident.

There may be a lot of talk about this in the future, but I personally dont see a thing wrong with the break being this strong of an advantage. You could look to tennis for a similarity. But, I think we need to make a strong move to alternate breaks soon, it is more than obvious,

 
9-balls on the break:
Day 1 -- 3 for a win; 0 spotted
Day 2 -- 1 for a win; 0 spotted
Day 3 -- 2 for a win; 2 spotted
Day 4 -- 0 for a win; 3 spotted
Day 5 -- 2 for a win; 0 spotted
5-day total -- 8 for a win (1.6% of 490 breaks); 5 spotted (1.0%)​
 
I'm amazed that the 2-3% rule for 9's on the snap remains true over all these years. Trends in power breaks, soft breaks, cut breaks have come & gone, but that 2-3% stays true. Weird.
 
I just updated Post #1 to include the breaking results for Day 6.

The loser got to at least 7 wins in every match on Day 6, and the total number of games played was considerably higher than any other day. But the proficiency was nothing like Day 5 -- it was the first day when the breaker won less than half of the games, and the frequency of break-and-run games was way down from Day 5.

Three more matches to go!
 
Thanks for sharing the information!

What I find most noticable is that beginning the rack gives one a big advantage. I allways thought this is because they often run the rack, but apparently the first chance to play a safety often wins the rack as well..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top