Breaking with your LD Playing Shaft

wilkamania

wilkamania

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So this is just a matter of curiosity, but I wanted to hear some experiences of people who hard break with their LD shafts.

I ran into a couple of threads:
Breaking with a z2
and
Breaking with a 314^2

What got me curious was watching Jayson Shaw at the expo break with his Lucasi Zero Flex shaft HARD (completely with flexed shaft on the table). I understand he's a pro and can always get another, but he said he was breaking better with that than with his break cue (I believe it was a pure X JB.... I almost offered to buy it).

Same thing with SVB and his cuetec before he started using a break cue.

Another buddy breaks with his old precat 314, but the ferrule was replaced with old westinghouse Micarta.

Finally another buddy broke with z2s hard (they developed rolls) and breaks hard with his classic and tiger shafts.

I'm curious what LD shafts have people broken with, what was the outcome (explosions, warped shaft, etc), and how long they've been breaking with it.


I know there's 10000 reasons why you shouldn't, but there's enough threads with those.

Let's see who took the plunge :) So again, I'm curious with posts of people who do so.
 
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I have an old 314 original shaft. Very hard LePro tip on it. I break with it, masse' with it. Had the ferrule replaced once to original specs. Been using it for......I don't know, many years now. Somewhere around ten years.
 
There are some really simple explanations for all this.

First, breaking with an LD shaft, or a regular shaft, or a break shaft, or anything that you break with will eventually wear it out. Breaking is harder on equipment than just normal shots.

Now, keep in mind that break cues or break shafts are designed to be thicker and stronger to last longer and also "give" or flex less on the break. Flex reduces the power that goes into the cue ball. But, that stiffness also makes the joint area the weak link when you bend a break shaft against the table. Bending a break shaft against the table will put more lateral stress on the joint than a normal, more flexible playing shaft would. That's the reason you see split or broken joints on break cues and break shafts more so than on regular playing shafts and cues. After all, the strongest way to break is to have the cue travel straight through the cue ball anyway. If it dives into the table after it hits the cue ball, then most likely it was headed that way before it hit the cue ball.

Many people feel that they break very well, or better with their LD play shafts than they do with their break cues. The reason for this is the LD part. Consider that when you break, you're trying to hit it hard. When you're trying to hit it hard, is when you're most likely to miss the middle of the cue ball. When you miss the middle of the cue ball, it squirts off to the side, and you don't hit the front ball square causing a significant amount of the cue balls energy to not go into the rack, but be spent sending the cue ball to the rail, off the table, or flying around the table. Most break cues are the opposite of LD, which just makes it harder to hit the middle of the cue ball and make good square contact with the front ball on the rack.

So, LD playing shafts do break well. Breaking with them a lot will wear them out faster. The answer is to get an LD break shaft. It will be strong and break harder because it's stiff and won't flex or give, but it has the LD properties that help you to hit the front of the rack nice and square more often. But, don't get so over zealous that you pull a movie star style break and bend the thing against the table. If you do, it may snap at the joint because it's really stiff and trying not to bend. After all, that's what it was made to do.

I hope that helps!


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
RBC said:
There are some really simple explanations for all this.

First, breaking with an LD shaft, or a regular shaft, or a break shaft, or anything that you break with will eventually wear it out. Breaking is harder on equipment than just normal shots.

Now, keep in mind that break cues or break shafts are designed to be thicker and stronger to last longer and also "give" or flex less on the break. Flex reduces the power that goes into the cue ball. But, that stiffness also makes the joint area the weak link when you bend a break shaft against the table. Bending a break shaft against the table will put more lateral stress on the joint than a normal, more flexible playing shaft would. That's the reason you see split or broken joints on break cues and break shafts more so than on regular playing shafts and cues. After all, the strongest way to break is to have the cue travel straight through the cue ball anyway. If it dives into the table after it hits the cue ball, then most likely it was headed that way before it hit the cue ball.

Many people feel that they break very well, or better with their LD play shafts than they do with their break cues. The reason for this is the LD part. Consider that when you break, you're trying to hit it hard. When you're trying to hit it hard, is when you're most likely to miss the middle of the cue ball. When you miss the middle of the cue ball, it squirts off to the side, and you don't hit the front ball square causing a significant amount of the cue balls energy to not go into the rack, but be spent sending the cue ball to the rail, off the table, or flying around the table. Most break cues are the opposite of LD, which just makes it harder to hit the middle of the cue ball and make good square contact with the front ball on the rack.

So, LD playing shafts do break well. Breaking with them a lot will wear them out faster. The answer is to get an LD break shaft. It will be strong and break harder because it's stiff and won't flex or give, but it has the LD properties that help you to hit the front of the rack nice and square more often. But, don't get so over zealous that you pull a movie star style break and bend the thing against the table. If you do, it may snap at the joint because it's really stiff and trying not to bend. After all, that's what it was made to do.

I hope that helps!


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...


Thanks for chiming in Royce!

I definitely agree with you on those points. I personally don't break with my LD shafts. I use my Mezz PB or a House Cue.

But this thread is about the regular people who say "Screw it" and do it anyway. I'm curious to see their experiences. And for no particular reason, just curious.


Side note: it's the OB cue I bought from you at the Expo...but i bet you sold a ton of them. I was the big chinese guy haha. You helped me adjust it down to 17.2oz. Still in love with the cue. Thanks!
 
I've been breaking with a 314-2 with a Kamui Hard Black tip for this past season, better more consistent breaks than with my Beulah 2 shaft. Don't see myself going back to a break cue any time soon.
 
Before I bought a Stinger Break/Jump cue, I broke with my Predator Sneaky Pete with a uniloc 314 shaft. I developed no shaft warp, buzzing, no joint issues or any other shaft malady. I am still playing with that shaft daily but the tip has long ago been replaced. I feel the tip was flattened a bit and lost some of its play ability. I purchased for short change a discontinued Lucasi LEW-20 uniloc cue with a maple shaft that I now use to break with and the Stinger has been relegated to jump only.

Al
 
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For break cues, I think it's desirable to have a match between one's breaking bridge length and the shaft's pivot point. Then, an unintended off-center hit on the cue ball (unintended back-hand english) is more likely to result in the cue ball going where intended. Some players actually use a longer-than-normal bridge length for the break shot. For them, a long pivot point, as on an LD shaft, might be better on the break cue. But a short pivot point, as on a non-LD shaft, should be better on break cues bridged at a normal (short) length.
 
I have a 314-2 blank with an Ivory ferrule and Kamui Black medium and have done a lot of breaking with it and had no issues, shaft is straight as an arrow. Ya its possible the shaft will wear out faster or crack a ferrule sometime but it can always be fixed or replaced like any break cue you might buy.
 
I just received a few of the new OB-1 XL shafts that are anywhere from 13.0 to 13.1 mm and put one on a plain Schon I have had around here for many years. Just left the standard Tiger Everest Tip on the shaft that came with it and am liking what I'm seeing. Drop me a PM if your interested as I have a few left in 5/16 x 18, 5/16 x 14 and one left in a 3/8 x 10. Most are around that 4.0 oz but, the 3/8 x 10 may be just a little lighter. I like the thicker OB-1 XL's anyway myself, but, had to check it out as a break shaft.
 
I know a guy with a 314-2 who KNOCKS THE HELL OUT OF THEM breaking and, to my knowledge, has has no problem.
 
The bottom line is use what works for you... who cares if it breaks down the road.. no worries they have more where those came from.

Heck, I break 1 to 3 baseball bats every summer... $90 a piece. It's a wood bat league, so no metal bats allowed. It's equipment, I mean, if shafts cost $1000 or more, you might wanna think twice, but it's sporting equipment, be sporty :)
 
ssbn610g said:
Before I bought a Stinger Break/Jump cue, I broke with my Predator Sneaky Pete with a uniloc 314 shaft. I developed no shaft warp, buzzing, no joint issues or any other shaft malady. I am still playing with that shaft daily but the tip has long ago been replaced. I feel the tip was flattened a bit and lost some of its play ability. I purchased for short change a discontinued Lucasi LEW-20 uniloc cue with a maple shaft that I now use to break with and the Stinger has been relegated to jump only.

Al
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I have the uniloc joint on my 5k8. I echo these sentiments.
 
I have a McDermott with a Z2 shaft on it and I use it to break with no issues. Have been doing so for about 2 years and it rolls straight. Stock Everest tip that is presently with my tip guy to have an Onyx put on. I wont break with it now that I am going with a softer tip. I like this shaft for one pocket mostly....

I also have an old Predator sneaky pete that is fitted with an original Tiger low deflection shaft. I use this for 9 ball and 8 ball. I break the holy snot out of the balls (somewhere north of 20 mph usually) and it cackles merrily at it while remaining straight. I love the ferrule on this shaft, it seems to repel chalk somehow.

I have shattered hard rock maple shafts 2 times in my life. Both times involved my break in 9 ball.... I was really gutting my nuts up into the break and it was like the wood exploded both times. One of the cues was a Palmer I had when I first started playing and the other was an Adams that belonged to a friend of mine that nearly swallowed his head when it happened.

I have always broke with my playing cue, but then I presently shoot with McDermott cues.... so why wouldn't I? No real need to worry when the cue is made well. (not to say that Palmer and Adams cues are inherently sketchy) - But I am going to invest in a break cue soon. Something very light with a water buffalo tip and a Meucci like shaft that will bend like a republican dodging campaign finance legislation.

I say break with what feels good and read the fine print on these low deflection products to see if they are guaranteed to take the abuse of a break. I really couldn't care less what the warranty information says... its a shaft... it's going to see some use.

Regards,

Lesh
 
ChicagoRJ said:
The bottom line is use what works for you... who cares if it breaks down the road.. no worries they have more where those came from.

Heck, I break 1 to 3 baseball bats every summer... $90 a piece. It's a wood bat league, so no metal bats allowed. It's equipment, I mean, if shafts cost $1000 or more, you might wanna think twice, but it's sporting equipment, be sporty :)
Click to expand...

*likes this*
 
If we ever end up with a finalized set of rules for even ONE of the games... one of the rules should be.

One cue per player per match..


if you snap a shaft then you are an idiot.. and if you pop off a tip get a better cue guy...

The whole gimmick shaft movement is nothing more than a swindle of bad and mediocre players.. and it's never been anything else...


Have a nice day
 
I break with my Tiger Ultra X LD shafts, neither show any signs of wear due to breaking. However, I don't break the same as with my break cue. I don't bend the shaft like Sigel and I don't hit it at warp speed when using my player. I hit it about as hard as a full table draw shot.

softshot said:
If we ever end up with a finalized set of rules for even ONE of the games... one of the rules should be.

One cue per player per match..


if you snap a shaft then you are an idiot.. and if you pop off a tip get a better cue guy...

The whole gimmick shaft movement is nothing more than a swindle of bad and mediocre players.. and it's never been anything else...


Have a nice day
Click to expand...

I sure hope we never have rules like that. I'm glad that they have multiple baseballs to play with for the game and they don't just quit when someone knocks it out of the park. By the way, I've snapped a few break shafts. Thick 13-14mm shafts. I'm an idiot now?

Have a nice day...
 
maybe i just break too hard lol

well you guys breaking with your LD shafts and havin no issues are lucky, i didn't even have my predator sneaky with 314-2 shaft for a year and i split it in half breaking with it, wasn't until i needed to have the tip replaced and cleaned that my cue repair guy told me about it, couldn't see it before because of the shaft blueing, now i break and play with a solid maple shaft and it's all good, when jack madden made my cue he said he wanted me to break with it and break hard, nothin was gonna happen to it like with my 314-2 shaft guaranteed
 
I think an LD shaft is very handy for breaking if it means a slightly squarer hit on the head ball
when you accidentally hit off to the side. That said, it feels like the hollow part at the end absorbs
some of the impact of the break, or maybe it's my imagination.

I don't break hard enough to shatter shafts or even compress the tip much,
but I still feel hinky about using my playing cue.

If they can make a reduced deflection break shaft with no hollow component
(assuming that's possible and assuming the hollow 'issue' isn't in my head)
then I'd buy it.
 
softshot said:
If we ever end up with a finalized set of rules for even ONE of the games... one of the rules should be.

One cue per player per match..


if you snap a shaft then you are an idiot.. and if you pop off a tip get a better cue guy...

The whole gimmick shaft movement is nothing more than a swindle of bad and mediocre players.. and it's never been anything else...


Have a nice day
Click to expand...

Yeah, screw science!

Lol, while i agree with your general sentiment (players can/should be able to adjust to any equipment). There is a difference though. I mean if we reject new ideas and just say they are useless fads, then golfers would still be using persimmon woods.
 
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When I began playing years ago, I was sold an precat 314 shaft. Being very green and not knowing the science at the time, I played and broke every rack with it. After a year or so my break developed, and I totally destroyed the ferrule with a hard break.

It was repaired, but at the expense of losing about 1/2" of overall shaft length. Afterwards I used that shaft for years and it played fine.

I also had and OB break shaft that held up for several years, but over time it developed some delamination between layers. Also, it eventually would not keep a phenolic tip for more than a month at a time without popping, so it was retired.

Breaking now with a Mezz Dual Force and a BK2, both proving indestructible.
 
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