Broken Revo

[Bca8ball]

Yes, I'm really surprised at the price point for this product. I happen to have a pretty good idea of how much carbon fiber shafts and material costs from working with Marty Carey and I can tell you this... It's a lot cheaper than hard rock maple.

Agreed, they are quite expensive.
However, there appears to be more involved than a CF tube; that was tried long ago but didn't work.

The Revo apparently includes unidirectional carbon fiber tow to get past whatever didn't work from the simply tube concept.

Regardless, I like mine and I will be sure not slam it against the table.
I do get pissed when I miss a shot I should have made but my cue has never missed a shot without me. It should slam me against the table.

 

[Jsnstanley]

With a wood shaft, you have to adjust your aim to shoot with sidespin, and compensate for squirt...with the Revo shaft, you don't. Simple as that. I've talked about this for the past 6 months (including on here), and I can demonstrate it in a NY second.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

And little to NO maintenance

 

[conetip]

You can easily run into $150 in materials to make a Carbon cue shaft, you can also make one for $8 in carbon as well. I can assure you, the cheaper carbon option does not work for a pool cue.
Neil

 

[jackpot]

So far, I haven't heard or saw anybody explain or demonstrate what a Revo can do....
....that a wood shaft can't.

I don't think that it can really perform that much better if at all, but with continued
research it seems that the consistency from shaft to shaft would be vastly improved.
And eventually be able to get a shaft that would perform and feel exactly as you
wanted and you could get a hundred and they would all be the same. Now I always
have 2 or 3 shafts with my cue and even though they were ordered to all be the same
they never are.
jack

 

[9Ballr]

I hate to see so many people bashing down on Predator because someone forcefully beat one of their shafts in two. They make good cues and are the leader when it comes to shaft technology in my opinion. Their Revo shaft is a new concept in the pool world and it has been taken surprisingly well by those that have actually played with one. There will be a second, even tougher and better generation of carbon shafts one day, wether it will be Revo'2 or something totally different remains unknown. They will most likely be the new era of shaft technology, not much say there as the composite shafts are a whole a lot easier to make play and feel exactly the same than any wood shaft can ever be. I'm sure everyone who has had several shafts in the specs that just play or atleast feel different. I know for sure that I have had and still have shafts of the same brand that play different from each other. Predators have been good for me in that regard. All of their shafts have played surprisingly similiar that have gone through my hands.

Sure there are imperfections about the Revo shaft and even the brand itself. It is weird to say the least to come with so large diameter at first, only uniloc joint and so on. I do believe that is to some degree to pull more money of the shaft by publishing it slowly like this. Not nice in a players perspective but Predator group is a business, not a charity. They need to make money on their products and we have to live with that. And I bet the first production Revo shaft cost them a small fortune to come up with, let alone the research and engineering part of a new concept like the Revo shaft.

I would love to try one someday out of curiosity. I dont think I'd make the transition from maple to carbon but I have an open mind for trying out new ideas.

It's the price dude.....the price.

No one's saying it's not new technology or a new concept. That's obvious. And no, they do not make good cues.

They spend most of their money in ads.
But that's because a company that has nothing to offer MUST rely on people who are always thinking "if only I had this or that latest thing my game would get better".

On top of that they charge astronomically for their products.

Just look at a new 314. Laminated shafts, inferior woods, if it wasn't laminated they would never hold true, plastic joint material known to crack, their own cheap junk tips, ferrule that also cracks if you actually use the shaft.......all that for about 300 bucks

 

[9Ballr]

So far, I haven't heard or saw anybody explain or demonstrate what a Revo can do....
....that a wood shaft can't.

Same goes for all LDs in general.

 

[Bank it]

With a wood shaft, you have to adjust your aim to shoot with sidespin, and compensate for squirt...with the Revo shaft, you don't. Simple as that. I've talked about this for the past 6 months (including on here), and I can demonstrate it in a NY second.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Well Scott isn't your claim to fame to be a qualified instructor that you are "a lifetime player"? Considering you've played your entire life it would seem a reasonable assumption that you'd have figured out deflection by now. More importantly you should also know that if you understand it, deflection is your friend & is useful.

 

[Coop1701]

You can easily run into $150 in materials to make a Carbon cue shaft, you can also make one for $8 in carbon as well. I can assure you, the cheaper carbon option does not work for a pool cue.
Neil

Why not...? They make tennis rackets through the same process. They take much more abuse than a Pool Cue. Ever watched John McEnroe play?

 

[9Ballr]

With a wood shaft, you have to adjust your aim to shoot with sidespin, and compensate for squirt...with the Revo shaft, you don't. Simple as that. I've talked about this for the past 6 months (including on here), and I can demonstrate it in a NY second.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

But what is so bad about compensating for a "sidespin"?
For me it comes very naturally and if I'm not in the middle of the ball it's gonna happen.
One gets used to it and stops thinking about it.

 

[Fuji-whopper]

Why not...? They make tennis rackets through the same process. They take much more abuse than a Pool Cue. Ever watched John McEnroe play?

When McEnroe starts beating on 4oz. rackets please let me know, till then there is a discrepancy in the purpose it's built for, the amount of material and the direction that the abuse is coming from.


Neil

 

[conetip]

Why not...? They make tennis rackets through the same process. They take much more abuse than a Pool Cue. Ever watched John McEnroe play?

Because the properties you want in a cue shaft are not there with the cheaper materials. Carbon fibre is a complex material, that is why there are composite engineers. There is a reason that companies that can make high end archery arrows don't make pool cue shafts.

 

[louieatienza]

Yes, I'm really surprised at the price point for this product. I happen to have a pretty good idea of how much carbon fiber shafts and material costs from working with Marty Carey and I can tell you this... It's a lot cheaper than hard rock maple.

I don't think so. Hard rock (eastern) maple goes for about $4.50/bf D4S (board-foot, dressed four sides), unsorted. So for a manufacturer that buys maple in bulk, uses a gang-saw to rip them down in 1" square blanks, that comes out to about 94 cents per blank. It doesn't have to be quartersawn because it's going to be turned. Just kiln dried properly. Sure it needs to be processed - made into oversized dowels, left to season and move, turned again, a few times before being ready to use as a shaft.

There's nothing cheap about making a CF shaft. You need molds or mandrels made. There is currently no machine that rolls CF sheets, and each layer is oriented at a different angle. You need to cure it in an autoclave. You need to do some post-processing afterwards (sanding). You need to add material for the joint and tip, and that would require special adhesives. The shaft may need to be finish sanded as well. It's not a single diameter stock tube filled with gap-filler foam as many here would lead to believe.

Again, not defending Predator, but just giving insight into this.

They make tennis rackets through the same process. They take much more abuse than a Pool Cue. Ever watched John McEnroe play?

John McEnroe played with wood rackets in his day, when volleying at the net was commonplace. Nowadays, everyone seems to stand at the baseline and whack it back and forth like ping-pong. That said, the CF is laid down in different directions to get the specific strength/bend characteristics in each part of the racket. I would venture to guess the CF rackets have a greater wall thickness than cue shafts. It takes a lot to break a CF tennis racket but you see disgruntled players do it on TV.

I remember when I was in high school, I purchased a ceramic Easton baseball bat. At the time, $140, and the most expensive bat in the day (around 1989-1990). Hit like an aluminum bat, sounded like wood. But you had to be careful where you threw it once you got a hit, because a ding in the bat could spell trouble.

 

[JC]

Ha ha you guys are nuts complaining about the price. Yet it's ok for black boar or xyz cuemaker to charge 600 for a shaft made of plain maple wood.

I never understood Predator haters. You have some that think their low squirt shafts are marketing bs. Taking 1 shot with spin will instantly show you it's not bs. Now whether that low squirt will improve your game is another question.

And you have other haters complaining the price is too high. Predator puts a ton of money into this game. They advertise in every billiard publication. They sponsor almost every tournament I have ever seen. They sponsor a lot of players. People who play with their cues are generally very happy with them.

I wonder if people hate on predator simply because they are successful in our billiard world

I hate predator shafts because they are made out of dehydrated scraps of maple that dent if you look at them sideways.

JC

 

[Coop1701]

John McEnroe played with wood rackets in his day, when volleying at the net was commonplace. Nowadays, everyone seems to stand at the baseline and whack it back and forth like ping-pong. That said, the CF is laid down in different directions to get the specific strength/bend characteristics in each part of the racket. I would venture to guess the CF rackets have a greater wall thickness than cue shafts. It takes a lot to break a CF tennis racket but you see disgruntled players do it on TV.

I remember when I was in high school, I purchased a ceramic Easton baseball bat. At the time, $140, and the most expensive bat in the day (around 1989-1990). Hit like an aluminum bat, sounded like wood. But you had to be careful where you threw it once you got a hit, because a ding in the bat could spell trouble.

John ended playing with Graphite Injected Composite rackets from Dunlop from 1986 up until her retired. Then Kept using them when he was playing Senior Exhibitions. Dunlop during that area never made a ceramic racket. About 14 years ago I bought a Graphite Cue from Walmart for 69.99. I'm just saying that re-branding old tech and classifying it as NEW. Is totally wrong.

 

[Type79]

I can't help but conclude that much of the criticism posted in this thread is similar to the that in other threads concerning something whose cost is above the norm.

Many negative comments are posted by people blinded by the price tag and others who might find fault with something only because they can not afford it.

If a CF shaft were so easy and inexpensive to produce, I suspect there would be dozens of companies and cuemakers producing them.

 

[GoldCrown]

I can't help but conclude that much of the criticism posted in this thread is similar to the that in other threads concerning something whose cost is above the norm.

Many negative comments are posted by people blinded by the price tag and others who might find fault with something only because they can not afford it.

If a CF shaft were so easy and inexpensive to produce, I suspect there would be dozens of companies and cuemakers producing them.

You broke the code.

 

[MOJOE]

If someone is dumb enough to slam their cue in frustration, they deserve to have it snap on them. JMHO

 

[louieatienza]

John ended playing with Graphite Injected Composite rackets from Dunlop from 1986 up until her retired. Then Kept using them when he was playing Senior Exhibitions. Dunlop during that area never made a ceramic racket. About 14 years ago I bought a Graphite Cue from Walmart for 69.99. I'm just saying that re-branding old tech and classifying it as NEW. Is totally wrong.

That's not the same as layering unidirectional fabrics, which is totally diffrerent than injection molded. I also never said that there were any ceramic tennis rackets made by Dunlop - I was referring to baseball bats (which they make today of carbon fiber). Also the graphite Walmart cue was some injection molded or pultruded thing, not made by rolling layers of unidirectional fabric, with a foam core.

I also mention McEnroe in his PRIME, which was late 70s - early 80s. He actually didn't play in 1986 (took the year off) and was never the same when he returned.

The technology as implemented might be new to the pool industry. I doubt Predator themselves make these shafts because it would require a separate facility with different tooling and machinery.

 

[Coop1701]

That's not the same as layering unidirectional fabrics, which is totally diffrerent than injection molded. I also never said that there were any ceramic tennis rackets made by Dunlop - I was referring to baseball bats (which they make today of carbon fiber). Also the graphite Walmart cue was some injection molded or pultruded thing, not made by rolling layers of unidirectional fabric, with a foam core.

I also mention McEnroe in his PRIME, which was late 70s - early 80s. He actually didn't play in 1986 (took the year off) and was never the same when he returned.

The technology as implemented might be new to the pool industry. I doubt Predator themselves make these shafts because it would require a separate facility with different tooling and machinery.

He actually had several good wins from 88 to 90. Including a WCT championship. He did get ejected from the Australian Open one year though. I think he was very competitive in Majors and David Cup play.

I just think Predator should be ashamed for billing this as new tech and pricing these cues so high.

 

[louieatienza]

He actually had several good wins from 88 to 90. Including a WCT championship. He did get ejected from the Australian Open one year though. I think he was very competitive in Majors and David Cup play.

I just think Predator should be ashamed for billing this as new tech and pricing these cues so high.

In two years, every company and their mother will have a rolled CF shaft, and they'll probably sit on shelves at $300 a pop.