BS drama and pool. Do they go hand and hand?

R

R3DS!X

professional failure
So I play pool to relax and get away from stress. I enjoy the game and admire the physics, geometry and strategy involved.

I'm on 3 APA teams which are all in either first or second place. I'm winning most of my games but it doesn't feel very gratifying when people are complaining and starting arguments and call petty rules(which I have no problem complying with) and then complain when they get called on the same rule. It all seems really childish to me. So i told my captains I'm done with APA and they told me that i need to get used to it cause its gonna be like that no matter where i go.

Is this true? I've only picked this game up about a year ago so im not super familiar with the pool world.
 
Not at all. Sure, you will run into many players that are jerks and spend more time complaining than learning and enjoying the game, but the APA is a special kind of narrow-windowed view of pool.

The APA definitely does a great service to pool by promoting the sport - but at what cost? I live in Southern California, where there are many pool rooms and bars, many of which are APA affiliated. I can walk into any of those places, talk to their players about the local weekly and monthly pool tournaments (9 ball mostly) and I always get the same response: "Oh I don't play 9 ball," or "I don't play on BIG tables - waay too hard."

The APA likes to keep their league players thinking that the pool world is either limited to the bar box, or that you can only play one or the other - bar box or standard. It's in their best interest to keep their players scared to death of the ENORMOUS standard tables.

It's a double-edged sword; they generate tons of interest in the sport, but at the cost of ignorance and arrogance of those who take up their cue to their organization.
 
Like a buddy of mine used to say : "Some people can start an argument in a phone booth".
I have never played in a league but i have been in pool halls and social clubs and casinos almost my whole life and one thing has always stood out : Some people will just always be jerks and have to be right all the time and have to have the last say.
Ya cant get around it no matter what.
So just enjoy yourself and ignore them, i know it would be more gratifying to hit them over the head with a 2 x 4 but why damage a good piece of lumber ?? :grin:
 
I read a lot of bad things on here about APA and people complaining about it. I have been playing APA for 13 years in two different locations and really enjoy it. Sure there is the occasional a-hole but most of the people are great.

It seems like the popular thing on this board is to talk sh!t about the APA but I really enjoy it. I am not scared to play on a 9 foot table. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
 
its not just in pool. its in any competitive environment. I can give you plenty of examples.

parents fighting at little league

parents fighting with coaches

player punching coaches

coaches punching players

the list goes on and on
 
44Runner said:
I read a lot of bad things on here about APA and people complaining about it. I have been playing APA for 13 years in two different locations and really enjoy it. Sure there is the occasional a-hole but most of the people are great.

It seems like the popular thing on this board is to talk sh!t about the APA but I really enjoy it. I am not scared to play on a 9 foot table. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
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Yeah...I think it important to remember that people have differring experiences with leagues.

They wouldn't exist, if they weren't enjoyable to some.

No league for me, I like to go to/ leave the pool room when I want to.

Like I always say: ________ would run a lot smoother, if we could just get rid of all the people.
 
APA...drama ?

The Piedmont Triad APA in my area (I'm sure each area is different), has many problems, but it's not just playing on small tables and not playing 9-ball because of the pay tables. The weaker players really truly enjoy the competition and often do improve their games over time. The problem with APA is the handicap format! It allows (and even encourages) cheating or sandbagging. Some of the better players (often the Captains) control the handicaps of their players (in order to stay at or under 23 total handicap points for 5 players). That means that the "average" team handicap is 4.6. (the maximum individual handicap is a 7 in 8-ball). One "super" 7 handicap player on the team, leaves only 16 handicap points for the remaining 4 players, (or an average of 4.0). To control not going over the 23 max. per team, the Captain pressures these weaker players to "lay down" in order to qualify for the post tournaments or playoffs FOR A TRIP TO LAS VEGAS $$$. That is a pretty BIG prize and many DO lay down and sandbag. THAT is the PROBLEM with APA !!!


44Runner said:
I read a lot of bad things on here about APA and people complaining about it. I have been playing APA for 13 years in two different locations and really enjoy it. Sure there is the occasional a-hole but most of the people are great.

It seems like the popular thing on this board is to talk sh!t about the APA but I really enjoy it. I am not scared to play on a 9 foot table. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
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nancewayne said:
The APA in my area (I'm sure each area is different), has many problems, but it's not just playing on small tables and not playing 9-ball because of the pay tables. The weaker players really truly enjoy the competition and often do improve their games over time. The problem with APA is the handicap format! It allows (and even encourages) cheating or sandbagging. Some of the better players (often the Captains) control the handicaps of their players (in order to stay at or under 23 total handicap points for 5 players). That means that the "average" team handicap is 4.6. (the maximum individual handicap is a 7 in 8-ball). One "super" 7 handicap player on the team, leaves only 16 handicap points for the remaining 4 players, (or an average of 4.0). To control not going over the 23 max. per team, the Captain pressures these weaker players to "lay down" in order to qualify for the post tournaments or playoffs FOR A TRIP TO LAS VEGAS $$$. That is a pretty BIG prize and many DO lay down and sandbag. THAT is the PROBLEM with APA !!!
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We play 9 ball on coin op tables. That's not a big deal.

Also there has to be some form of handicap system to have people of vastly different skill levels playing together. The new 8 ball scoring does a better job of catching the sand baggers. We have only used it for the current session so far but I like it. I have only played 8 ball twice so far this session but have gotten a 3-0 and a 2-1. The system maybe could use a tweek or two but overall I am really digging it.
 
SkyscraperChris said:
Not at all. Sure, you will run into many players that are jerks and spend more time complaining than learning and enjoying the game, but the APA is a special kind of narrow-windowed view of pool.

The APA definitely does a great service to pool by promoting the sport - but at what cost? I live in Southern California, where there are many pool rooms and bars, many of which are APA affiliated. I can walk into any of those places, talk to their players about the local weekly and monthly pool tournaments (9 ball mostly) and I always get the same response: "Oh I don't play 9 ball," or "I don't play on BIG tables - waay too hard."

The APA likes to keep their league players thinking that the pool world is either limited to the bar box, or that you can only play one or the other - bar box or standard. It's in their best interest to keep their players scared to death of the ENORMOUS standard tables.

It's a double-edged sword; they generate tons of interest in the sport, but at the cost of ignorance and arrogance of those who take up their cue to their organization.
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the type of table you play on is not league specific, its area specific. some posters on here say they play on 9.s, some play on valleys, some diamonds.

I happen to play on 9's 4 out of 12 matches in one division because that is what 's available.

now you will probably find this hard to believe because I am known as a pretty staunch supporter of apa " most of the time ". but I don't like 9 ball either. not because its hard as some say, because of the slop factor.yea apa 8 ball is slop also. but I hated 9 ball when I played bcapl also, because of the slop factor.

funny thing is I have a lil better win percentage in 9 ball than I do 8 ball.i think that's mainly because all the 7's I play have to spot me so many balls " I am a 5 "

I think the the reason you hear people say they don't play on big tables or 9 ball because its hard are low level players who know they are outclassed and afraid of embarrassing theirselves.

I know that was my case when I 1st joined a league. it was bcapl. I was nervous and somewhat intimidated the 1st night despite the fact that the captain who met me playing at a bar I was playing at and got me to join his team said I was better than anyone he had on his team.
 
BS drama and life go hand-in-hand.

But if we didn't have the BS drama, we wouldn't know what non-BS drama is like.
 
I live in Waretown NJ. I have been playing pool since 8 yrs old and I am now 60.
Never in any league but I played in weekly money tournaments in bars through the years. I tried the APA a few weeks ago here at a local bar. What a joke!! All beginners and nit picking over the rules. I sat there for 3 hours while 2 girls plowed through 4 or 5 games. FInally got to play and won the first 2 games. The 3rd game I made a foolish error which cost me that game. My opponent was not a good shooter. As I finished up the 4th and final game the cue ball and object ball were mid table. I double banked the ball into the corner and left the cue ball at the opposite rail right in front of the 8 ball which was inches from the corner pocket. Straight in shot. This shot and leave was something that pool players would love to see. I called the corner pocket and sunk the 8 ball to win. In the APA the rule is that you have to mark the pocket with something. I did not do this however I did call it and the cue and 8 ball were just inches from the corner pocket and dead straight in. My opponent now starts crying about me not marking the pocket. I could not believe that any player would want to win this way especially after seeing the double bank setup shot and cue ball leave. I have played with all types from pros to beginners and I never saw anything so absurd and insulting. There was absolutely no honor or respect here. This guy wanted to win anyway he could. I packed up my cue, got my membership dues back and left. I will stick with the weekly money tournaments and leave the APA to their nit pickers.
 
dannyd said:
I live in Waretown NJ. I have been playing pool since 8 yrs old and I am now 60.
Never in any league but I played in weekly money tournaments in bars through the years. I tried the APA a few weeks ago here at a local bar. What a joke!! All beginners and nit picking over the rules. I sat there for 3 hours while 2 girls plowed through 4 or 5 games. FInally got to play and won the first 2 games. The 3rd game I made a foolish error which cost me that game. My opponent was not a good shooter. As I finished up the 4th and final game the cue ball and object ball were mid table. I double banked the ball into the corner and left the cue ball at the opposite rail right in front of the 8 ball which was inches from the corner pocket. Straight in shot. This shot and leave was something that pool players would love to see. I called the corner pocket and sunk the 8 ball to win. In the APA the rule is that you have to mark the pocket with something. I did not do this however I did call it and the cue and 8 ball were just inches from the corner pocket and dead straight in. My opponent now starts crying about me not marking the pocket. I could not believe that any player would want to win this way especially after seeing the double bank setup shot and cue ball leave. I have played with all types from pros to beginners and I never saw anything so absurd and insulting. There was absolutely no honor or respect here. This guy wanted to win anyway he could. I packed up my cue, got my membership dues back and left. I will stick with the weekly money tournaments and leave the APA to their nit pickers.
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I see it as you not honoring or respecting the rules. Why are you too good to follow a simple rule? You can call pockets in league if your opponent agrees to it.

If you play any game you should always know the rules. Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Would I have let your situation slide? Yeah, probably, but the easiest way to avoid the situation is to follow the dang rule in the first place.

If the dude you were playing saw you call and let you shoot and then called a foul he is a huge dick, but I would just treat it as a lesson. Not get all bent out of shape.

Even when I am playing someone and they tell me I can call I still mark just so I stay in the habit. I will never understand why people ***** about their opponent wanting them to follow the rules. It not like these are special rules for a select few. Everyone has to follow them that plays in the league so what's the BFD?
 
dannyd said:
I live in Waretown NJ. I have been playing pool since 8 yrs old and I am now 60.
Never in any league but I played in weekly money tournaments in bars through the years. I tried the APA a few weeks ago here at a local bar. What a joke!! All beginners and nit picking over the rules. I sat there for 3 hours while 2 girls plowed through 4 or 5 games. FInally got to play and won the first 2 games. The 3rd game I made a foolish error which cost me that game. My opponent was not a good shooter. As I finished up the 4th and final game the cue ball and object ball were mid table. I double banked the ball into the corner and left the cue ball at the opposite rail right in front of the 8 ball which was inches from the corner pocket. Straight in shot. This shot and leave was something that pool players would love to see. I called the corner pocket and sunk the 8 ball to win. In the APA the rule is that you have to mark the pocket with something. I did not do this however I did call it and the cue and 8 ball were just inches from the corner pocket and dead straight in. My opponent now starts crying about me not marking the pocket. I could not believe that any player would want to win this way especially after seeing the double bank setup shot and cue ball leave. I have played with all types from pros to beginners and I never saw anything so absurd and insulting. There was absolutely no honor or respect here. This guy wanted to win anyway he could. I packed up my cue, got my membership dues back and left. I will stick with the weekly money tournaments and leave the APA to their nit pickers.
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This is also what I consider the most stupid thing Ive ever seen in my life, relating to pool. I remember seeing someone "mark" their pocket for the first time years ago, and thinking to myself why the fvck is this guy putting his wallet on the table??
 
Leagues are often the source of drama, and you will see a little in tournaments too where the mentality is "win or go home broke". Some leagues run smoother than others though and there are certain people who are just the source of drama no matter what they're doing... whether it's league or work or just grocery shopping.

The worst drama I've ever seen always happens in gambling. There was a story not too long ago over a guy getting murdered over a 30 dollar gambling debt. I've seen otherwise good friends get into heated arguments other silly little nit calls over $10.

It's perfectly possible and normal for 2 friends (or a whole group of friends) to play for hours
without any particular drama. So if drama bugs you, that might be the way to go.
Any league will have at least a little.
 
44Runner said:
I see it as you not honoring or respecting the rules. Why are you too good to follow a simple rule? You can call pockets in league if your opponent agrees to it.

If you play any game you should always know the rules. Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Would I have let your situation slide? Yeah, probably, but the easiest way to avoid the situation is to follow the dang rule in the first place.

If the dude you were playing saw you call and let you shoot and then called a foul he is a huge dick, but I would just treat it as a lesson. Not get all bent out of shape.

Even when I am playing someone and they tell me I can call I still mark just so I stay in the habit. I will never understand why people ***** about their opponent wanting them to follow the rules. It not like these are special rules for a select few. Everyone has to follow them that plays in the league so what's the BFD?
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FTR, the LO in the area I used to play in (no longer playing leagues atm) said she would NOT let a player in any of her divisions win an 8-ball game in this manner (calling, then shooting in an oh-so-obvious 8-ball, being called for not marking the pocket and having to lose that game). She said that if someone tries this move on me or one of my teammates (or anyone else in her 8-ball leagues) to simply call her before the next rack is broken and she would explain to the "supposed" winner that she won't allow a player to win a game in this manner, and that player must take the loss instead. She knows a chickensh*t move when she sees (or hears of) one. I say "good for her" and "bless her heart" for bringing some sanity to an otherwise stupid rule.

Maniac
 
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R3DS!X said:
So I play pool to relax and get away from stress. I enjoy the game and admire the physics, geometry and strategy involved.

I'm on 3 APA teams which are all in either first or second place. I'm winning most of my games but it doesn't feel very gratifying when people are complaining and starting arguments and call petty rules(which I have no problem complying with) and then complain when they get called on the same rule. It all seems really childish to me. So i told my captains I'm done with APA and they told me that i need to get used to it cause its gonna be like that no matter where i go.

Is this true? I've only picked this game up about a year ago so im not super familiar with the pool world.
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If you're looking for a relaxing time playing pool I'd suggest finding another friend who plays or find someone at the pool halls you frequent who's willing to split table time and more about "shooting to shoot" than looking for action.

On the other hand, if you have the itch to compete the leagues are a good place to get your feet wet. Like some others have pointed out already in this thread, the drama almost always ensues when a competitor doesn't know the rules. The best way to avoid it is simply to brush up on whatever league rules have been established and never assume that a league plays by the same set of rules you grew up with or played by outside of that league context. I personally don't understand the whiners when it comes to things like marking pockets and stuff in the APA. It's stated clearly in the rule book for all to read. While I would personally just let it go if I saw that someone pocketed the 8 where they intended to, it's of course up to each competitor's discretion. A lot of people forget that in settings such as APA competition the seemingly "petty" rules are in fact there to discourage bigger disputes over whatever scenario it applies to.
 
"BS drama and pool. Do they go hand in hand?"

Not necessarily, but they're certainly not mutually exclusive. Some people might blame it on league pool, but it's no different among the guys playing tournaments or matching up at the pool room. Sometimes as the stakes get higher it gets even worse.

As in all areas of life, BS drama seems to follow certain people. Just look out for the common denominators and the real jack***es and keep your distance.
 
dannyd said:
I live in Waretown NJ. I have been playing pool since 8 yrs old and I am now 60.
Never in any league but I played in weekly money tournaments in bars through the years. I tried the APA a few weeks ago here at a local bar. What a joke!! All beginners and nit picking over the rules. I sat there for 3 hours while 2 girls plowed through 4 or 5 games. FInally got to play and won the first 2 games. The 3rd game I made a foolish error which cost me that game. My opponent was not a good shooter. As I finished up the 4th and final game the cue ball and object ball were mid table. I double banked the ball into the corner and left the cue ball at the opposite rail right in front of the 8 ball which was inches from the corner pocket. Straight in shot. This shot and leave was something that pool players would love to see. I called the corner pocket and sunk the 8 ball to win. In the APA the rule is that you have to mark the pocket with something. I did not do this however I did call it and the cue and 8 ball were just inches from the corner pocket and dead straight in. My opponent now starts crying about me not marking the pocket. I could not believe that any player would want to win this way especially after seeing the double bank setup shot and cue ball leave. I have played with all types from pros to beginners and I never saw anything so absurd and insulting. There was absolutely no honor or respect here. This guy wanted to win anyway he could. I packed up my cue, got my membership dues back and left. I will stick with the weekly money tournaments and leave the APA to their nit pickers.
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It's been my experience to avoid the ball bangers at all costs.

The APA is full of them.

Ball bangers don't understand the etiquette and honor of the game.

They're simply nits... in the worst way possible.

You did the right thing.

Marking a pocket is absurd. Having to verbally call a pocket when the shot is obvious is absurd. Only combinations, banks and non-obvious calls need be called.
 
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