Buffing Compound Bar?

scdiveteam

scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
Hi,

Can anyone recommend the right polishing compound bar to use for a final vertical buffing of cues on a buffing wheel machine. I have a Caswell 3/4 hp buffing machine and have the softest Domet Flannel wheels. My problem seems to be that I need the right compound that will work with PPG Clearcoat. All of the bars I got from Caswell are for metal polishing and they leave a haze on my finish.

The finish I am now getting is close to perfect. I am buffing between centers on my wood lathe with Vanity Fair Napkins. I am using a 4 set liquid compound system and on my last buff I use ebony and go vertical by hand with the lathe off. My finish is fantastic but when I hold the cue at a certain angle with the right light, I can see these microscopic tiny swirl marks.

All my friends tell me I am nuts and that I am chasing ghosts as my finish is the best they have seen. My problem is not how deep and shinny my clearcoat is, it's that I can see these damm tiny swirls and it bothers me to no end.

I want a show finish on all my cues and tiny swirls is not a show finish. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Rick Geschrey
 
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If you are using automotive clear you will need automotive polishing material. On all the show cars I ever painted I used Megiurs products. It been awhile since I have messed with them and I think the #s have changed, But I used to start with#2 on a foam pad then go to #9 for the final buff.

Larry
 
sapphire powder

rio grande in new mexico ph #800 545 6566. sapphire powder is 99.99% alumina hydrate .05u fine. its a powder you mix with water until you get toothpaste thick then just buff as normal. i use it to put a high luster on soft gemstones. might work for you. chuck
 
I have never used a buffer on my cues. It is very easy to burn right through the finish, with a buffer. I have always done my sanding with 400, 600 then 1000 & finish with 1500 grit sandpaper. After each sanding, with the lathe turning, I sand with the tathe still & I sand with the grain. I then use a cotton cloth ,with the lathe turning & use Meguiar's #1, then their #5, then their # 9 & finally aproduct called Wizard's finish Cut. Again each compound is applied while the lathe is spinning & then with the grain. I love my finnish...JER
 
buffing

Thanks Jer,

I use the Wizzard products ending with final cut, then Finesse the next day. I will try the vertical wet sanding between paper changes and vertical buffing between steps. That may be the ticket.

If I get the finish I am looking for I will not use the buffer.

Rick Geschrey
 
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scdiveteam said:
Thanks Jer,

I use the Wizzard products ending with final cut, then Finesse the next day. I will try the vertical wet sanding between paper changes and vertical buffing between steps. That may be the ticket.

If I get the finish I am looking for I will not use the buffer.

Rick Geschrey
Click to expand...

Just what do you refer to when you say swirls? Is it very small oscillation marks or are you talking about very light rings around the circumference of the cue? Makes a big difference. After my last coat of PPG I start wet sanding with 1000, 1500, 2000 and then 3000 grit. Between each grit I slow the lathe down to around 30 rpm and sand with the same grit length wise on the cue. Be sure to wipe the slurry off the cue before going to the next grit. After the 3000 grit I go to the 3M Perfect-it 3000 liquid polishing compounds. I start with #06062 rubbing compound with a light cut pad, then #06064 swirl remover with another light cut pad and lastly I use 06068 Ultra fina SE with the special blue foam pad made for this product. I use a variable speed, 0-3000 rpm 7 inch revolving polisher. I run it around 1700 rpm. I do this on the lathe with the cue revolving, once again, around 30 or 40 rpm. I use the very outer perimeter of the pad on the cue so that it is polishing more with the grain than across it. This usually gives my cues a swirl free deep gloss that I am very happy with. I tell customers when they pick up their cue that I will put a coat of wax on the next time they stop by the shop as the finish needs to breath for a month or so. In the past I have had as many as 5 other cue makers send me their completed cues to install finishes for them.

There are many ways to finish a cue and this is just how I do them. It takes me about 10 minutes to rub a cue out from the first wet sand to taking the cue off of the lathe and putting in the rack.

Dick
 
buffing

Thank you Dick,

I also go to 3000 grit starting with 800. I will try the slow down sanding up and down. My swirls are very small and do not extent around the circumference. They are very short and intermittent.

I think you and Jer have the answer and I am looking forward to experimenting with your techniques and I thank you. I am already using scratch remover, shinemaster, final cut and 3M finesse.

I can't wait to get to my shop tonight as I shot a cue yesterday and will buff late tonight.

Rick Geschrey
 
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scdiveteam said:
Thank you Dick,


I can't wait to get to my shop tonight as I shot a cue yesterday and will buff late tonight.

Rick Geschrey
Click to expand...

Again back to my car painting days, since I am not a cue maker. Buffing the day after is great. The finish is soft and will shine quickly. Then you will have to wait about 30 days to do the final buff. That is when you will get rid of the swirls and hays.

Good luck, Larry
 
Rick,

Take a look at Grizzly. They have Minzerna compounds in a bar form. We use three different ones, each on a different wheel.

This is by far the best way to buff out finish.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
Buffing Bar

Royce,

I thought that the buffing wheel would be the best way but I got stuck on using the spinning lathe with the cue between centers. My finish just got better and better over time but not it stalled out with these micro swirls. Every time I tried to use the bars I got from Caswell it left a haze. I later found out their bars are for metal, not paint finish. Duh, I should have read the fine print.

Do you use all 3 bars on an automotive finish? Can I use the 3 step buffing compounds and then finish with the last Menzra bar on my buffing wheel?

Sound like Dick uses a hybrid technique by using the spinning lathe and the variable speed buffer.

Thanks,

Rick Geschrey
 
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RBC said:
Rick,

Take a look at Grizzly. They have Minzerna compounds in a bar form. We use three different ones, each on a different wheel.

This is by far the best way to buff out finish.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...

I may have to give the Menzerna another try. I've got both solid bars and bottles of liquid. I've also got three sets of 4, 10 or 12 inch polishing wheels on a all thread bar that chucks up in one of my lathes. I was using it trying to rub out UV finish a few years ago. I didn't like the results so I quit using both the Menzerna and the UV. I have never tried it on the auto urethane. I'll giive it a shot since I've already got everything that I need although I'm very happy with the results that I get now.

Dick
 
Buffng

Dick,

I too bought the buffer when I was experimenting with the UV process. I came to the conclusion that I like the urethane automotive finish better due to the fact that the sealers were not consistent with all wood species especially cocobolo and I could not get the buffing down to a high showroom finish. It can be done and Keith Josie's cues are a good example. The only thing that I love about my UV light is that I get a dynamite blood red color to my purpleheart in a short period of time after my final tappering.

The other thing that I do not like about UV is the air gap or opaque spot the customer gets after he bangs the cue on a table. Down the road its a lot easier to refinish a cue with dents to a urthane finish because you can flat sand & fill and dont have to sand all the way down past the UV sealer. On veneered point cues I don't want to go down there. I have tried both the Van Tech and Mcfadden UV sanding sealers and the only difference in my experience is that the Mcfadden sands easier.

Thanks to all who have weighed in, I certainly have a lot of new ways to go on my quest to reach an apex in my satisfaction with a finishing process control procedure.

Rick Geschrey
 
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Rick,

We use all 3 on buffing wheels.

I have 3 domet flannel wheels, one for each compound. Don't mix the compounds on the same wheel. You will always have some of the coarse compound on the wheel and will never be able to get a good shine.

I don't do many cues. Our playing cues are built by Joss, and our new Break Cue is built by Carolina cues. But when I do need to buff out a cue handle, I just use a driver in an air drill so spin the cue while I run it back and forth over the wheels.

Over the years I have done them all, but found that I can get as good a finish with this method as I have achieved with any of them, but in a fraction of the time. When you compete with overseas labor you have to be very efficient!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
It sounds like you are 99.9% there already.

I suggest the 3M Imperial Hand Glaze once you get to the point of "micro-swirls" as you call them. Literally apply it by hand (make sure they are clean) after the cue is cleaned. A bit of windex on a paper towel so its damp is a good method. The rub the glaze in with your hand with the grain. You may also spin the cue slowly too. Once it starts to 'grab' use a brand-new microfiber cloth to give it the final buff. Spin it, but also go with the grain of the cue. You should ahve a clean, shiny cue now.:thumbup:

Also, make sure to clean the cue between grits and polishes. Also, new (different) cloths/pads for each material as well. Most scratching (swirls) come from cross-contamination. One spec of courser grit in the next step will ruin the entire job (or at least cause you to go back a step to get rid of the damage)!

Good luck!
 
Swirls

Thanks CG,

You just helped me out and I did not even consider cross contamination. I will get that product and try your technique. It sounds like you have mastered this phase'

Rick Geschrey
Esoteric Cue
 
Glad I could help.

By the way, I have used the Meguire's (SP) as well as the 3M Imperial Hand Glaze and the 3M is WAY better based on my experience.:thumbup:

Also, with regards to contamination, make sure your cloths are not in the immediate area where they can get 'sprayed' with other buffing compounds (i.e. contamination). Zip lock freezer bags for each cloth/pad is a good idea...

When I did guitars, I had large buffing wheels on a motor. I had dedicated wheels just for clear, and one for 'rough' buffing clear and a completely different one for 'final' buffing of clear.

Paints all shared one wheel, but in all cases, they were cleaned between compounds. I stil had some contamination problems however- the goal was to have a dedicated wheel for each product but after a while it gets a bit crazy...

Keep it clean and try the Imperial hand glaze. I think you will have it sorted!

Oh, and metal compounds tend to be a LOT more aggressive than the paint compounds. I had a completely different set of bars for metal, and a smaller, stiffer wheel mounted on a modified bench grinder to drive them.

For wax (after it is fully cured- you know it's cured when you can't smell it any longer) I suggest the One Grand wax. Hard to find, but well worth it! Much better clarity than Butcher's, and far more duarable than Zymol. The best compromise I have found, and I've tried a lot of them (PS no silicone either!)

All stuff available from Car Care Specialties in New Jersey by the way... A great guy who REALLY knows this stuff....
 
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