Buyers Beware!!!!!! There Are Cue Pimips Here On Az Billiards

i heard more money was the factor in the Sw deal,which makes it worse.as far as your deal the time difference really shouldn't matter.first is first and second is last.that is not the way i would have handled it,but to each his own,as they say.i would have sold it to the first bidder.i know there can be grey areas taht i am unaware of,but i try to operate in black and white in business dealings.

what was done to Miles by the seller,buyer and maybe another is far more rotten and probably pre-meditated.nothing can be done now,except for those who see it from Miles' prespective to just avoid all future dealings with the aforementioned parties.i know i will,and it is a shame b/c i have done delas with one of them before.
 
I have to agree with Dave Sutton to a certain extent. When there are two persons who want the cue for the same price and one has few/no iTrader and few/no "Green Beans" the the other buyer has alot of both I probably would sell to the better reputation. This is only when the two buyers requested to buy at viturally the same time. If they were say 5 minutes apart I would sell to the first bidder even though he had very little iTrader/Green Beans. If the newbie failed I could always sell to the second buyer.

One of the things that bothers me about this discussion is that a known "Dealer" was given priority over a regular Azer. Then the dealer tryed to sell theses cues to the first buyer. NOW THATS CLASS! The dealer should of at least used vasoline!
 
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Mr. Wilson said:
Allow me to jump in here a sec.

Several things are on the table at this time, so I'll try and address as many as posible.

First, I want everyone who has a complaint that threads are removed to stand in front of a mirror and explain to yourself what you did to help contain the situation. A lot of self serving argument will ensue.

People swear argue, name call, threaten...an entire list of thing which all go against the Terrms of Service each of you agreed to when joining the board.
Then there are the rules for the forum.....nuff said.

The people that know me for long enough can vouch that I am capable of sorting through the threads and issuing an individual warning for each infraction and sticking the offenders with a three strike rule in verry short order.

Which do you want, me taking the thread, or me warning and banning about half the parties involved?


People that feel this is their "business" please, again, who's needs are you trying to preserve?

Your's. Plain and simple.

I have to act in the interest of 20K members on the board...and one thread or another that lost its way doesn't matter at all in the greater sceme of things. Get some perspective please.


As for everyone that thinks I am going to start locking threads so they can satisfy their curiousity, forget it.

If a thread is out of control, EXPECT it to be removed.
If you don't like that it was removed, ask yourself what YOU could have done to have prevented it from being put in that position, rather than complaining that it happened.

I am not a referee, stuck in the middle of a ring sorting out who hit who fair....


Maybe soon, a spring cleaning is in order.

Re-read the forum rules and abide.....please don't push the limits and complain when you find them though.
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I would like to say thanks to Mr. Wilson for what you do. It is quite tough for a forum member to see all the disgruntled comments on the forum and not jump in to either join the crowd without realizing it's what you're doing or trying to settle things back down, so folks don't get so far out of whack with their comments, tempers, etc.. Once in a while, things get out of hand. When that happens, I'm glad someone like you is around to put things back in order. I'm sure all your decisions won't be the right ones, but who is that perfect on this earth? The fact that you take the responsibility to TRY to determine what's best for the forum and its members and then to take the heat when you do those things... that's very much appreciated. I know I could not do your job and am glad you are here to do it. I wouldn't even want your job.

Thanks for being the guy with the dirty job and not taking that responsibility lightly.

I hope I never make it on your bad list.
 
masonh said:
i heard more money was the factor in the Sw deal,which makes it worse.as far as your deal the time difference really shouldn't matter.first is first and second is last.that is not the way i would have handled it,but to each his own,as they say.i would have sold it to the first bidder.i know there can be grey areas taht i am unaware of,but i try to operate in black and white in business dealings.

what was done to Miles by the seller,buyer and maybe another is far more rotten and probably pre-meditated.nothing can be done now,except for those who see it from Miles' prespective to just avoid all future dealings with the aforementioned parties.i know i will,and it is a shame b/c i have done delas with one of them before.
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agreed. i would sell to you bc of your rep and bc i talk with you. esp if something was personal to me such as that.

i built a 70 chevelle ss frame off all numbers matching. i turned down many offers bc i didnt like the buyers. i literally almost killed myself building that car by myself. i ended up trading a gsxr 600 and cash for it just to keep it in the family. took a hit but i was mine. some call it shady but...

i understand where u stand
 
dave sutton said:
i agree. if no response was given no deal was made

i recently had a transaction that 2 azers bid on my item. both agreed to my asking price and were virtually at the same time. anyways long story short one had no posts no itrader and was new to the forum... the other was runnscott. guess who got the item. i replied item was sold

easy decission that i feel i have the right to make.
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well hell , then us newbies are screwed then by that way of thinking,lol. i think that is ridiculous IMO. if i pm some guy FIRST , and say i take it ,i should get the FIRST choice. and if im a newbie then you should state in your sale threads no sale to newbies so not to waste their time. that is plain silly. or hell if i wanted to buy soemthing and if seller wants money first id send the damn money first, but mostly folks get higher bids then screw the first i take it .
 
dave sutton said:
nope same price at same time. maybe 1 min apart. both were there when i checked pms. it was literally instant
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Dave the above was not the case, the first buyer responded almost immediately and the other more than 24 hour's later. In my opinion this was nothing but a scam, to get more money. If there are certain buyers you do not wish to deal with, IE, Low or NO I-trader feedback say so. However, am I the only one here who See's back ground trading, if so I still stand behind what I have said. I will say it like this, the seller Lied he never contacted Smokey, then the eventual buyer contacts Smokey, because of his interest, on the same thread!!!!! I hope this will not happen to anyone else, and that is the reason for this post. If this is considered good business by people on this forum the forum has become nothing more than a version of eBay where shill bidders back each others play to maximize their profit.

Sorry Dave I totally disagree with your thought's, I unfamiliar with your deal involving Runscott, but I am certain that there are many factor's that differ from this situation.

Have a nice day!!!!
 
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Weren't we all newbies at one time???

ericdraven said:
well hell , then us newbies are screwed then by that way of thinking,lol. i think that is ridiculous IMO. if i pm some guy FIRST , and say i take it ,i should get the FIRST choice. and if im a newbie then you should state in your sale threads no sale to newbies so not to waste their time. that is plain silly. or hell if i wanted to buy soemthing and if seller wants money first id send the damn money first, but mostly folks get higher bids then screw the first i take it .
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I totally agree. I am not a newbee to AZ, but have only been on here a year. But I have had to gain rep and respect over the year through dealings, purchases, and trades with other AZ'ers. But I would have never been able to do that if someone didn't sell to me, because I was NEW!! No matter who you sell to, you must limit your risk and protect yourself. For newbies, they might have to jump through some hoops, and it might take it longer for you to get your $$$, but you have gained another person to trade, deal, and talk with. And you have gained another honest person to the whole AZB Community.
Eric, you are correct, I want to see people who will not sell to Newbies list it in their thread - But of course you gotta understand that this thinking is only followed when they have 2 buyers for their wares. If a newbee is the only person offering $$$, then they will probably sell to you after some major hoop jumping. DOUBLE STANDARD???? Well, any seller can sell to who they want to, but on an open forum, a community of fellow pool enthusiasts, be wary of the catch back and the negative reputation that is shown in these sales tactics. The sale you make today to a newbee can only build our community up, and maybe help with your and AZB's future base of knowledge. Weren't we all newbies at one time.

JMHO- Michael

BTW, I want to thank Joe - Bama for being the first person to take a chance on a Newbee - More people need to be like Joe!!!
 
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To all involved, I am through with this thread. My intentions were good from the start, I thought and still do that this issue needed to be brought forward so that people could see some of the bad things that can occur if they are allowed to go unchecked. This thread is starting to make me want to throw-up, it was not intended to create an environment for brown nosing. I totally agree the Mod's have a tough job and do a good job, I have no complaint with their conduct, now or in the past. But, this is not the issue here.

For those who no me, I speak my mind openly and while I am certainly not always right, I only say what I believe is true. I do not use this forum to make my living, however, there is nothing wrong with those that do this as long as they are Honest, and fair to our membership. I want nothing more than this forum to be a safe place for all involved. I always try to be helpful, and ask nothing in return, please in the future treat others the way you want to be treated, with respect and honesty, no one ever gets ahead by kissing butt or by being dishonest, the only result of this behavior long term is bad breath, a rotten disposition, and extreme loneliness because your world will get smaller and smaller until you have no where to go.

Whether you agree or disagree with this its your right and it is OK, just think before you act.
 
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I have only sold a few things on here, but the first person to respond to my post get's the goods. I may wait till a check clears or similar if it's a new person, or someone I'm unfamiliar with, but everyone deserves a fair shake.
 
Today, 12:41 AM
smokey
let's roll


Status: Offline
Posts: 143
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Las Vegas
vCash: 500
iTrader: (9)

for what its worth
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hi sean,

thank you for being on my side. i appreciated it.

and sorry, i see how angry you are at me, and i wish you wouldn't be. i try to be always honest and i honestly felt after re-reading the thread - that yes, you woke up the sale, and yes you made an offer and yes maybe it could have been handled beter by lisa (who was clearly inexperienced and just a middle person) so there were no hard feelings by anyone.

but also i feel that if the price was $800 and you only offered $750, your offer was beat. That is the way I saw it. and beside to me (not have the difficulty you had with cops) an injured man was trying to unload a cue because he needed money (and it soulnded desperately). i think all would agree that the cue was worth in the $1M to $1.2M range - so basically it was in my opinion a steal at $800.

with me it was i feel different - i offered full asking price out of the box.

maybe i am not as smart as you, maybe i am missing something important, but that's how i read the thread.

at worst though, we can agree to disagree and not be negative to each other.

and by the way, you have a great cue collection!

take care,
miles

Miles the price was not $800 until after I sent her an offer of $750 then she went to the mans family and they counter offered the $800 price, so you are reading all the info incorrectly, another part you are failing to get is she sent me the counter offer in a PM before she ever posted it to the forum for the general public, also what you are failing to see is, I was basically giving the man a loan, and getting his cue as collateral, as I offered to sell the cue back to the man after he was out of the hospital, which the purchaser of the cue was not, and put it on ebay directly after the purchase, ( so WHO is the bad guy here ). So not only did Lisa screw the man in the hospital out of money that he so desperately needed, but she also screwed him out of his pool cue. I'm sorry I did not see you or anyone else trying to help this man, I mean I at least made an offer, and I think it was pretty fair under the circumstances, if you thought the cue was worth so much and you had such a fondness for police officers and wanted to help, as it was for sale for over 2 months before I sent her my offer ( posted 09-18-2007, 04:12 PM - $800 post #24 11-26-2007, 11:17 PM ) why did you not purchase the cue for full price and resale it for profit, like the guy that did after I was already trying to help, also if it was such an awesome deal Varney Cues posted before anyone after the $800 offer was posted to the forum ( which again was after she sent me a counter offer PM of $800, but all he did was offer to put tips on the shafts.But hey I can understand how you thought I was the bad guy in this deal, I mean I only time and date stamped everything showing when PM's were sent, when offers were posted to the forum. But even after all this Miles I accept your apology again, unless of course you are going to erase it like you did the last one.

Have a great day all even you Miles

Best wishes
Sean
 
You guys know what a shill is?

I'm sure these cues all have a nice, tight alibi and story....but there have been plenty of people burned by shills around here.


Unless it is expressly stated that you are only accepting offers, I feel that product offered at a given price should have been honored.

The key word here is HONOR....since it is apprently a matter of trust.


offer, counter offer....this isn't Ebay.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
You guys know what a shill is?

I'm sure these cues all have a nice, tight alibi and story....but there have been plenty of people burned by shills around here.


Unless it is expressly stated that you are only accepting offers, I feel that product offered at a given price should have been honored.

The key word here is HONOR....since it is apprently a matter of trust.


offer, counter offer....this isn't Ebay.
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Thank you, that was the purpose of this thread. Not to start a flame war, not to give away free items for reputation points, this entire thread was meant to identify some bad business practices. My purpose is not to recieve or gain anything I only wish to help make things better. I totally agree that honor is the key word along with honesty.

Thanks for your reply!!!!!
 
21Gambler A FORMAL APPOLOGY

hi sean,

i am so sorry,really. you are completely right and i was completely wrong.

here is what i missed:

Re: WTS:late 80's early 90's schon LTD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by lady9baller
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Gambler
I will offer you $750 shipped



hello 21gambler i ask the family of my friend who owns this cue an they said they would take $800
shipped priority mail if your still have any intrest? thanks could'nt respond to your first offer with out talking to them first. thank you lisa


Ok thats fine it sounds like its for a family in need, tell your friend when he gets better and if I still have the cue I will sell it back to him. Do you take paypal

Thanks Sean



i missed the 'red' above. please forgive and forget.

next you your here, how about dinner at my home and we can play pool all night?
miles
 
manwon said:
Thank you, that was the purpose of this thread. Not to start a flame war, not to give away free items for reputation points, this entire thread was meant to identify some bad business practices. My purpose is not to recieve or gain anything I only wish to help make things better. I totally agree that honor is the key word along with honesty.

Thanks for your reply!!!!!
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manwon,

RE: 'red above'!

just unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i originally took rep seriously. but now realize you can BUY it for free stuff.

now for me, "rep" has lost all meaning.

to anybody who reads this message:

pls NEVER AGAIN GIVE ME POSITIVE REP!!!!

i'm pretty much on my way out of here anyway. no matter. its just not a good place for me.

miles
 
Mr. Wilson said:
As for everyone that thinks I am going to start locking threads so they can satisfy their curiousity, forget it.
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I realize moderating is a thankless job and the board owner/mods can run the board anyway they see fit ...

** BUT **

this comment really rubs me the wrong way .... I see it as very condescending comments to board members (that prefer thread locking vs. removal) that we are just a nosy and snoopy bunch.

The board is only good as members that participate it it ...
 
If a thread is removed, then it is out of public sight.

For the public to complain that they cannot see what all the fuss was because the thread is gone.....well there is a reason it IS gone.

I am not going to leave threads up, after they are deemed out of control so anyone who happens upon the wreckage can get the whole idea of "why"...etc.

I am also not going to spend time editing thread after thread so it can be clean enough or civil enough to remain up in sight.

Keep the threads clean and civil or they will be removed.
 
Totally unrelated, but I love the El Kabong avatar Mr Wilson.. it just gave me flashbacks to wacking my brother on the head with a guitar shaped nerf thing i had 30 yrs ago :D
 
Mr. Wilson said:
If a thread is removed, then it is out of public sight.

For the public to complain that they cannot see what all the fuss was because the thread is gone.....well there is a reason it IS gone.

I am not going to leave threads up, after they are deemed out of control so anyone who happens upon the wreckage can get the whole idea of "why"...etc.

I am also not going to spend time editing thread after thread so it can be clean enough or civil enough to remain up in sight.

Keep the threads clean and civil or they will be removed.
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Removing threads is an abysmal way to run a forum. First there is no such thing as a thread that is "out of control". What is someone going to do, tear a hole through the internet; get tossed through a window? It's words. They can not hurt anyone who is unwilling to be hurt by them.

By removing threads you are saying to us peons, "You are too stupid to read this and judge for your self." You are also not allowing members here to protect themselves by seeing how badly some people behave. You are not protecting anyone, except maybe your self, but since you have zero liability for people's comments on a message board you run, I don't see what your concern is. Now this whole thing has me questioning whether or not you are protecting certain members here or bowing to their threats; should I even bother with this board?

As far as so-called "dirty" words go, get one of those ******* filter plugins, and you won't have to edit a thing except the setup file, once. You don't want to waste your whole day adminning the forums? Don't.
 
manwon said:
This thread is starting to make me want to throw-up, it was not intended to create an environment for brown nosing.
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Craig - you just gave me a hilarious visual. I have to say, I have never actually thrown up from reading an internet forum!
 
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