Buyers Beware!!!!!! There Are Cue Pimips Here On Az Billiards

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Carmeli


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varney Cues
Ok...this is none of my business but since I've received several pm's...
My take...(and I briefly read the entire thread so forgive me if I missed something)...if Lisa was offered 750 from 21Gam and then had to ask the cues owner if he'd accept, and in the meantime she received an offer of her asking price of 800...then its her right to sell the cue immediately for 800. If you wanted the cue for sure then you should of made the deal at 800. Offering 750 opens the door for someone to come in after you willing to pay the asking price & then you are subject to be cut out of the deal.
Unless I missed something...she never told 21Gam that they had a deal...she had to run the offer by the cues owner. In the meantime if say Waldo's offered the 800, then its her option to sell. Just my thoughts.
KV<<<<<<<<<<<glad he's not Judge Judy!!!


i dont believe that to be the situation since waldo's only saw the thread after she posted an update. but she contacted 21 with the 800 offer before she posted the update since it was 21's offer that prompted the owner to actually lower it to 800.

but then again it's a hard situation for her. considering she's selling it for a friend, the friend might find it weird that someone is willing to buy it yet she's waiting for a reply from someone else?

i still say the cue should have been sold to 21 since his confirmed offer of 750 pretty much guarantees that he would have bought it for 800. but she was probably in a difficult situation since its not her cue.
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pool808
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this is no way to conduct business. costumers that have read this thread will now be skeptical doing business on this forum. I know the majority of us conduct business the right way but you know what they say that it only takes one to spoil it for everyone. I would be pissed too if this happened to me. Gambler even made an offer that he would sell it back when the friend got better. Who bought this cue? PLEASE COME FORWARD so we can hear the whole story behind this transaction
 
gobrian77
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While I certainly don't think there was any malice intended, it seems that 21Gambler should have had right of first refusal at $800.

Judging by what I read in this thread, though, I would imagine that time was a factor and the seller was finally happy to receive a solid offer of $800 and didn't want to wait or take a chance on losing the sale.

I would certainly not be happy if I were 21Gambler (who should have gotten this cue for $800, imho), but I think this was a "special circumstances" sale where standard considerations may have been pushed aside.

Sometimes ya just gotta let it go.
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Danktrees
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no the problem isnt that u pm'ed her. the problem is that she counter offered 21's initial offer then sold it to someone else. he responded within a reasonable time frame (6 hours) so it wasnt like she countered then waited a week before selling it.

and no u did not tell her u'd take it before she made the offer to 21 as she made that offer to him before she even updated the thread. and u only made the offer to buy it after seeing the update to the thread.
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Playing Cues: Carmeli 8 Pt. Ivory Loaded, Jensen 4 Pt. 4 Veneer Ivory Hoppe W/Ivory Joint & Ferrules, Audrick Purpleheart+Ivory, Barnhart Purpleheart Plain Jane w/ Fancy Ringwork, McDaniel 4 Pt. 4 Veneer, Dominiak Curly Maple PJ.
Break Cue: J&J J/B, Amazing Varney Soon.
Cases: Justis 3x6 Black Leather Case, Jim Murnak 2x4 Burgundy Leather Case, WIN 2-Toned Tooled Case, J&J 2-Toned Spring Loaded 4x8 Case.
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21Gambler
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Wrong C and C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c and c
Here's how it went down. At 12:35 AM I PMed her and said I'll take the cue for 800 and I would paypal her the money right after she posted her last thread. She said great and we proceeded from there. Nobody told me or her how to properly conduct a sale on AZ when we started on here. Now she is feeling terrible but like she said I contacted her right after she posted that she would take 800 for it. I dont think there is anything else that her or I need to explain. If you guys think she was unprofessional about it she wasn't. All this has blown out of proportion and she wasn't trying to screw around with anyone. I talked to her that night about it. 750 though to be honest is a little bit of a low ball offer coming from the standpoint the guy is in the hospital and needs money. The cue is worth more than 800 bucks and I think everyone knows it. They already dropped in 200 bucks just to drum up some money for the poor guy. Sorry if anyone is mad about it but next time I should've said I"ll take it or I want it. I went ahead and PM'ed her on it right after because the first thing people do usually is check their PM's. She didn't know what the exact proper procedure is either. Bottom line is I told her I would give her the asking price before the offer to her was even offered. End of story.

First off you wouldn't have even seen this thread if it wasn't for me sending her an offer in the first place as thread was dead a month ago, and the last time I checked $750 and $800 aren't that far apart, and the $800 offer to sale wasn't even made until after I made the $750 offer, so don't try and justify it with that lame excuse. You PMed her 1:30 minutes after she had made the counter offer to me, heck her post to sell for $800 was after she made the counter offer to me, as for as telling you how to properly conduct a sale on AZ, you both have itrader points so you should know how its done and also common knowledge works as well you don't offer to one person at a price and then sell to another without giving the first person a fair amount of time to either accept or refuse your offer, and seeing the 2 offers were only $50 apart I think it was a pretty safe bet I was going to accept the offer, and I think the 6 hours I responded to accept the offer isn't asking her to wait, if I would have been logged on 6 hours earlier I would have accepted it then, just so happens you were logged in at the time she posted to the forums, which was after she had already offered it to me at that price. ( Exact proper procedure ) Explaining something by saying you don't know how to do it is a lame excuse, even more so when you both have conduced business before. And as far as your bottom line goes its way off get your facts straight before you make those comments, I know you know how to read, As I have already posted the private messages and times they were sent its clear as day she had already offered it to me before you or anyone else even knew the cue was for sale at $800. Now its END OF STORY
 
21Gambler
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C and C
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by c and c
I dont know about any offers you had with her. I did not read anything pertaining to your offers to her. I gave her the price that her friend was wanting. Who by the way is a police officer who was shot in the hospital. She was not in a position to ask the man in the hospital if he would take 50 bucks less than what she was allowed to sell it for. I cant possibly imagine how you could be mad at me for this. I saw in the last post which I went straight down to because I wanted to see if it was sold. The first thing I see is I can let it go for 800 which she said. So I PMed her and she said great and it went from there. Now I"m the bad guy. Hilarious.


I'm sorry in no way did I mean you did anything wrong you seen a post and you responded to it for purchase of the cue.

My problem is with the seller, when I had offered her the $750 the post was dead for a month and the asking price was $1000, then Lisa went to the owner and said the owner will take $800 in a counter offer in a private message which I posted here with the time and date she sent it, the proper thing to do here would have been wait a reasonable amount of time say 24 hours before posting to forum for others to purchase, which she did not she waited a hole 11 minutes before posting it to the forum for the $800, less then 6 hours later when I logged on I responded to the private message not even looking at the thread and seeing she had posted it to the general public for that amount telling her I would take it for the $800 and offered to sell back to the owner when he got better. Like I said I'm sorry I made it sound like you did some thing wrong when you did not.

Another thing I find funny I have seen her on the forums several times since all this took place and I had sent her a PM before I ever posted here on the forums asking what the deal was, she has never replied to me, when a lot of this could be solved with Hey Sean I'm sorry I really screwed up here and I truly didn't mean to screw you like this, but she doesn't do this she just ignores it and tries to let other people justify what she did and there is no justification for it. Also the proper thing to do would be send you a message C and C and say sorry I really should complete the transaction with 21Gambler as I had offered it to him prior to posting it to the forum. Do I feel bad I'm not getting the cue YES I DO, I guess it just wasn't meant for me to have this cue, life goes on. Do I feel bad the guy in the hospital is getting money he really needs NO I DONT, I for one am glad the cue is sold which it wasn't being with a over month old dead thread, but thats another issue all together. There are other cues and other good deals out there, matter a fact I just acquired a few more cues last night ( Thank you so much Ed was great dealing with you ), Like I said my main problem was with how Lisa conducted herself which reflects bad on all AZ people, its just not a proper way of dong business. Enjoy the cue C and C once again I am sorry for making you feel as you did some thing wrong.
 
To the mods.....Lets open a whining, *****ing, so and so screws people section so this doesn't plug up the wanted / for sale section. Please.
 
duc, i am smokey or miles, screen name/real name. i read your post, and it left me wondering: do you know all the facts? okay, if you do, fine. but my az friend i think you do not. i think i know better. so why post a beautiful long winded statement? what do you know of all of this? fine, post and post what you like, but you are not even a 20th party in this, so do you think your post holds any value to anyone. do you think others need to read your words, because you know what you are talking about. fine, keep on posting. your value we can't live without.

miles

Hi Miles,

I believe that both you and Brett are honorable individual /az members despite this transaction so I was trying to point out that maybe this could just a big misunderstand. I know you may have felt you lost a great deal that should have been your but I think the seller is the one who knows the facts better than anyone as he's the one receiving all the offers and making the deal.

Logically reading the previous thread, I thought Brett made a Deal to someone else and keep his word and follow through his deal. If he rejected everyone else full price offers (Even if I was first to give him a full offer), because someone decided to offer his $2500 each for the cue, why would he accept the offer from me. It's another story, if he committed himself to your offer and than decided to withdraw because of an higher offer. But correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't read anywhere where he accept your full price offer? My point is that there are so many logicial reasons for him not to have accepted your offer. I think Mike probably gave him an offer that he commited himself to.

Again, I don't have all the facts and I'm sure you don't have all the facts on what happened with Brett not been able to respond to you (Don't why he say he email you when he didn't??) and all the offers he received. Only Brett has the facts and can address the mattter. Given that many have stuck up for brett, I would imagine he's reputable and I just don't see what he has to gain by not accepting your offer. The only logical reason was that he was committed and follow throught his transaction with the individual. JMO

As for the other issue about flipping cues, I just wanted to voice that it's business. I'm not defending anyone here...just wanted to layout my thoughts for review as this seem to be another misunderstanding. I guess I'm bored so decided to post this...if it make sense or not, I let you guys decide.

Regards,
Duc.
 
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Allow me to jump in here a sec.

Several things are on the table at this time, so I'll try and address as many as posible.

First, I want everyone who has a complaint that threads are removed to stand in front of a mirror and explain to yourself what you did to help contain the situation. A lot of self serving argument will ensue.

People swear argue, name call, threaten...an entire list of thing which all go against the Terrms of Service each of you agreed to when joining the board.
Then there are the rules for the forum.....nuff said.

The people that know me for long enough can vouch that I am capable of sorting through the threads and issuing an individual warning for each infraction and sticking the offenders with a three strike rule in verry short order.

Which do you want, me taking the thread, or me warning and banning about half the parties involved?


People that feel this is their "business" please, again, who's needs are you trying to preserve?

Your's. Plain and simple.

I have to act in the interest of 20K members on the board...and one thread or another that lost its way doesn't matter at all in the greater sceme of things. Get some perspective please.


As for everyone that thinks I am going to start locking threads so they can satisfy their curiousity, forget it.

If a thread is out of control, EXPECT it to be removed.
If you don't like that it was removed, ask yourself what YOU could have done to have prevented it from being put in that position, rather than complaining that it happened.

I am not a referee, stuck in the middle of a ring sorting out who hit who fair....


Maybe soon, a spring cleaning is in order.

Re-read the forum rules and abide.....please don't push the limits and complain when you find them though.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Allow me to jump in here a sec.

Several things are on the table at this time, so I'll try and address as many as posible.

First, I want everyone who has a complaint that threads are removed to stand in front of a mirror and explain to yourself what you did to help contain the situation. A lot of self serving argument will ensue.

People swear argue, name call, threaten...an entire list of thing which all go against the Terrms of Service each of you agreed to when joining the board.
Then there are the rules for the forum.....nuff said.

The people that know me for long enough can vouch that I am capable of sorting through the threads and issuing an individual warning for each infraction and sticking the offenders with a three strike rule in verry short order.

Which do you want, me taking the thread, or me warning and banning about half the parties involved?


People that feel this is their "business" please, again, who's needs are you trying to preserve?

Your's. Plain and simple.

I have to act in the interest of 20K members on the board...and one thread or another that lost its way doesn't matter at all in the greater sceme of things. Get some perspective please.


As for everyone that thinks I am going to start locking threads so they can satisfy their curiousity, forget it.

If a thread is out of control, EXPECT it to be removed.
If you don't like that it was removed, ask yourself what YOU could have done to have prevented it from being put in that position, rather than complaining that it happened.

I am not a referee, stuck in the middle of a ring sorting out who hit who fair....


Maybe soon, a spring cleaning is in order.

Re-read the forum rules and abide.....please don't push the limits and complain when you find them though.
Click to expand...
I for one sir think you do an outstanding job!!!:)
 
Mr. Wilson said:
.......As for everyone that thinks I am going to start locking threads so they can satisfy their curiousity, forget it.

If a thread is out of control, EXPECT it to be removed.
If you don't like that it was removed, ask yourself what YOU could have done to have prevented it from being put in that position, rather than complaining that it happened.......
Click to expand...


You call it curiosity; I call it research and background checking. I for one would like to know how a person behaves in particular situations especially if I am going to potentially exchange $ / cues with them. By removing difficult threads you remove some of my ability to do this.

Bottom line - there is no benefit from removing a thread because it removes responsibility and accountability and helps to allow the very kind of thing you're trying to stop to happen again and again because there is no historical record.

Is that really what you're trying to achieve?
 
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I think if i get a few PMs on a cue that the people are saying i take it i should have a right to choose the guy who i sell it to,just say i have 3 buyers at the price but the first guy has little to none itrader,rep and is new then i might pass on selling to him and choose and more reputable buyer.Is there a problem with this?
 
Fast Lenny said:
I think if i get a few PMs on a cue that the people are saying i take it i should have a right to choose the guy who i sell it to,just say i have 3 buyers at the price but the first guy has little to none itrader,rep and is new then i might pass on selling to him and choose and more reputable buyer.Is there a problem with this?
Click to expand...


I'm not sure if it sounds discrimation...for example....I'f im buying a car at the dealer and there's one car left that i really like and i offer the dealer that i will pay the asking price and then someone called the dealer that he knows and have a good record with that dealer and suddenly the dealer will tell the guy who came first that the car has been sold!...is that the way we make business here? ...just my .02 opinion...im not sure either if i do make sense here hahahaahaha sorry guys
 
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Varney Cues said:
I for one sir think you do an outstanding job!!!:)
Click to expand...

I totally agree, but to come out say it like that here is kinda like the kid who gives the teacher an Apple every day, with the intent of getting a pat on the head for being a good little boy!!!!!!!!;)

Just my thoughts, it may have been better in a private PM, if these are your true feelings!!!:D
 
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Fast Lenny said:
I think if i get a few PMs on a cue that the people are saying i take it i should have a right to choose the guy who i sell it to,just say i have 3 buyers at the price but the first guy has little to none itrader,rep and is new then i might pass on selling to him and choose and more reputable buyer.Is there a problem with this?
Click to expand...

No everyone has a choice to make, however, when you post a price and give your terms. Someone agrees to your price, and you pass them without even talking with the person to see how they want to do Business, and you have not posted the requirements to do business there are certainly other motives in your decision.

1. Maybe the asking price was nothing more than bait to see if there is any interest.

2. Maybe there are more than one person involved in the deal from the beginning with the intent of squeezing additional money out of a interested buyer.

3. Maybe the entire situation was just a misunderstanding.

The problem I have with this being a misunderstanding, are the facts!!

1. Cues are offered for sale for a set price with a quaint discount if both are purchased by one person.

2. Buyer Contacts the seller offers to purchase the cues, seller never contact the buyer, but he continue to post to thread saying he is excepting offers:confused: If the price requested was met why is someone excepting offers unless the initial price was not what the seller wanted.

3. Buyer posts to thread that he has not been contact by seller and is immediately jump on by individuals who are friends with the seller. Buyer still receives no reply from the seller, but he continues to state he will pay full price and that he wants these cues.

4. Next a good days afters the thread started the seller announces that the cues are sold. The buyer is never contacted by the seller, and the same individuals who jump on the buyer for wanting to by the cues are joking and laughing and say things like, maybe the person who purchased the cues will sell the other buyer one. Next thing you know, the individual who bought the cues contact the first individual and trys to sell the cues at a premium, before the cues are even shipped to him.

This under handed, if the seller wanted to leave the price upon request, there would be no issue here. But due to the way things worked out it appears that members were working together to extort additional money from the interested buyer. No one would want to be treated in this manner, I only hope that in the future other members keep their eyes open!!
 
manwon said:
No everyone has a choice to make, however, when you post a price and give your terms. Someone agrees to your price, and you pass them without even talking with the person to see how they want to do Business, and you have not posted the requirements to do business there are certainly other motives in your decision.

1. Maybe the asking price was nothing more than bait to see if there is any interest.

2. Maybe there are more than one person involved in the deal from the beginning with the intent of squeezing additional money out of a interested buyer.

3. Maybe the entire situation was just a misunderstanding.

The problem I have with this being a misunderstanding, are the facts!!

1. Cues are offered for sale for a set price with a quaint discount if both are purchased by one person.

2. Buyer Contacts the seller offers to purchase the cues, seller never contact the buyer, but he continue to post to thread saying he is excepting offers:confused: If the price requested was met why is someone excepting offers unless the initial price was not what the seller wanted.

3. Buyer posts to thread that he has not been contact by seller and is immediately jump on by individuals who are friends with the seller. Buyer still receives no reply from the seller, but he continues to state he will pay full price and that he wants these cues.

4. Next a good days afters the thread started the seller announces that the cues are sold. The buyer is never contacted by the seller, and the same individuals who jump on the buyer for wanting to by the cues are joking and laughing and say things like, maybe the person who purchased the cues will sell the other buyer one. Next thing you know, the individual who bought the cues contact the first individual and trys to sell the cues at a premium, before the cues are even shipped to him.

This under handed, if the seller wanted to leave the price upon request, there would be no issue here. But due to the way things worked out it appears that members were working together to extort additional money from the interested buyer. No one would want to be treated in this manner, I only hope that in the future other members keep their eyes open!!
Click to expand...



totally agreed.:)
 
Fast Lenny said:
I think if i get a few PMs on a cue that the people are saying i take it i should have a right to choose the guy who i sell it to,just say i have 3 buyers at the price but the first guy has little to none itrader,rep and is new then i might pass on selling to him and choose and more reputable buyer.Is there a problem with this?
Click to expand...
i agree. if no response was given no deal was made

i recently had a transaction that 2 azers bid on my item. both agreed to my asking price and were virtually at the same time. anyways long story short one had no posts no itrader and was new to the forum... the other was runnscott. guess who got the item. i replied item was sold

easy decission that i feel i have the right to make.
 
the question is who had the first PM offering the asking price.if you sold to runscott and the other guy was first then you are in the wrong.especially if you were offered more money.
 
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