C.J. Wiley VS Keith McCready - What's The Line?

[eddie0776]

I would love to see this happen, but we all know its not going to. I grew up looking up to both of these players and even got to see Keith play a tourney here in Atlanta back in the 90's. As far as getting older and not playing as good, well that is normal and I would be willing to bet Keith would agree with that statement. I raced Arenacross and motocross for several years but due to injury after injury I took some time off (about 4 1/2 years). I tried to come back and I remember thinking wow these kids are faster than I was, but when we put a stopwatch on us...well it wasn't that they were faster it was me that had slowed down. When we looked back on my older times I was actually faster than they were, but after shoulder replacement, knee surgery, ankles broken multiple times and getting older I was just too slow. I tried it for 2 years locally and just couldn't get back up to full speed. Anyone that followed supercross knows of Jeremy McGrath. He was a 7 time supercross champion and seemed unstoppable, and he retired because he was getting slower due to age. Now he still rides but not at the speed he rode before. These are 2 different sports but it is the same with all sports. I hold both Keith and CJ in the highest regard and respect, but anyone who thinks that they can take time off from high level play and come back years and play the same or better than before is either an exception to the rule (and there always will be) or in denial.

 

[JAM]

I would love to see this happen, but we all know its not going to. I grew up looking up to both of these players and even got to see Keith play a tourney here in Atlanta back in the 90's. As far as getting older and not playing as good, well that is normal and I would be willing to bet Keith would agree with that statement. I raced Arenacross and motocross for several years but due to injury after injury I took some time off (about 4 1/2 years). I tried to come back and I remember thinking wow these kids are faster than I was, but when we put a stopwatch on us...well it wasn't that they were faster it was me that had slowed down. When we looked back on my older times I was actually faster than they were, but after shoulder replacement, knee surgery, ankles broken multiple times and getting older I was just too slow. I tried it for 2 years locally and just couldn't get back up to full speed. Anyone that followed supercross knows of Jeremy McGrath. He was a 7 time supercross champion and seemed unstoppable, and he retired because he was getting slower due to age. Now he still rides but not at the speed he rode before. These are 2 different sports but it is the same with all sports. I hold both Keith and CJ in the highest regard and respect, but anyone who thinks that they can take time off from high level play and come back years and play the same or better than before is either an exception to the rule (and there always will be) or in denial.

With all due respect, I am not disputing the intent of your post. I agree with much of what you have shared.

Several of the posts in this thread are written by what I consider to be antagonists on this forum. Their opinions do not hold the same weight as yours in my eyes; thus, why I have replied in kind.

The point of some of my posts in this thread is to address the anonymous antagonists' posts. It has been my experience that some of these anonymous antagonists jump in and out of threads in this forum -- on a daily basis, I might add -- and write flippant and sarcastic remarks to others. It is not just me, in this regard. It seems that this is what they enjoy most about writing on a pool forum. Much of what they write has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with pool, sad to say.

With that said, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I do not believe this match with CJ and Keith will happen for a variety of reasons, none of which have to do with this thread.

Seasons greetings to you!

 

[Old Nine Baller]

With all the talk of hustling, gambling, road players, reality shows, etc., what is the "line" if there is a match of CJ playing Keith in a long race of 2-foul, old-school 9-ball?

Both of them are still capable of hitting the balls rather smartly, given enough notice and practice.

I'd be interested in hearing who people think may take home the cheese if this could be set up and played out.

Aloha.

Well, let's look at it from a neutral viewpoint.

#1, they are each as capable as the other playing "old school two-foul 9 ball". No advantage to either one there.

#2, they are not both capable of "hitting the balls rather smartly, given enough notice and practice". One of them is 50 years old and the other is 57 1/2.

#3, What "cheese" are you talking about? Nobody in their right mind would bet a quarter on this imaginary match-up.

#4, an imaginary line for this non-match, in a race to 25 is that Keith does not get to 20.

ONB

 

[eddie0776]

With all due respect, I am not disputing the intent of your post. I agree with much of what you have shared.

Several of the posts in this thread are written by what I consider to be antagonists on this forum. Their opinions do not hold the same weight as yours in my eyes; thus, why I have replied in kind.

The point of some of my posts in this thread is to address the anonymous antagonists' posts. It has been my experience that some of these anonymous antagonists jump in and out of threads in this forum -- on a daily basis, I might add -- and write flippant and sarcastic remarks to others. It is not just me, in this regard. It seems that this is what they enjoy most about writing on a pool forum. Much of what they write has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with pool, sad to say.

With that said, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I do not believe this match with CJ and Keith will happen for a variety of reasons, none of which have to do with this thread.

Seasons greetings to you!

I believe we all hold on to the past which is why we would all love to see this match. I wish we had the pool scene of the late 80's to mid 90's when you couldn't walk into a pool room without hearing what you wanna do? I grew up playing in south Atlanta (Tight pockets, Cedar Room, Riverdale Billiards etc..) so if you wanted to play you had to pay lol. Paul Turner played out of my home room in Riverdale so that will give you an idea of what type people I got to be around everyday. I know CJ knew Paul and I am sure Keith did as well.
I wish you and Keith all the best and can't wait to see him in action again. Maybe I will see ya'll at the Derby.
Seasons greetings to ya'll as well!

 

[lfigueroa]

Well, let's look at it from a neutral viewpoint.

#1, they are each as capable as the other playing "old school two-foul 9 ball". No advantage to either one there.

#2, they are not both capable of "hitting the balls rather smartly, given enough notice and practice". One of them is 50 years old and the other is 57 1/2.

#3, What "cheese" are you talking about? Nobody in their right mind would bet a quarter on this imaginary match-up.

#4, an imaginary line for this non-match, in a race to 25 is that Keith does not get to 20.

ONB

oh man, are you gonna get it now, you, you, you anonymous, multi-identity, Keith bashing troll, you.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JAM]

oh man, are you gonna get it now, you, you, you anonymous, multi-identity, Keith bashing troll, you.

Lou Figueroa

I've never read any troll-like remarks from him in the past, Lou; thus, why I did not reply to him. I respect opinions, good and bad. It's the antagonists that can be a problem. :smile:

 

[lfigueroa]

I've never read any troll-like remarks from him in the past, Lou; thus, why I did not reply to him. I respect opinions, good and bad. It's the antagonists that can be a problem. :smile:

Just funnin' with you, JAMy.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JAM]

Just funnin' with you, JAMy.

Lou Figueroa

Today is not a good day for JAM. There's a crew of sucker-punching monkey snipers on the forum in full force this morning. :grin-square:

 

[punter]

All this talk about he's too old, no way can they get it back....my father used to tell me "Can't never could do anything."

People celebrate those that accomplish things against long odds. I hope both of them come back better than ever. I think it will be cool to watch, regardless.

 

[screamingelvis]

Today is not a good day for JAM. There's a crew of sucker-punching monkey snipers on the forum in full force this morning. :grin-square:

Jam : sounds like another day @ work. After having read this entire string there is one thing one can take away: There is a huge amount of energetic interest in "hoping / making" a match like this happen. If the banter here were to translate to dollars I bet we all would be sharpening our sticks for some action, which is good. The series w/ Keith will be a success in part due to arguments such as these.(old adage talk good / bad just talk about me) There is something "smartly" in place w/ Keith namely there is a rep still out there but yet to a greater extent he's unknown value in most people's gambling equation. This alone can provide the others a manner to "get action" if the alternative is to play Keith. So the story line is one that should appeal to nits, trolls,players, and others who sit looking for a modern answer to getting action. JMHO elvis

 

[Chrippa]

Exhibition

Hi,

a simple request from me to Keith and CJ, can´t you please do a exhibition of you 2 playing 2 foul 9 ball, with comments of strategy etc. Make a DVD together and bring more information, stories etc into it. You have at least one buyer:wink:.

I really like to watch both of you play and the more I learn about the game the more I "see" and you 2 can shoot some serious advanced pool that I didn´t understand before.

Take care and happy holidays to everyone!

Chrippa

 

[Dave714]

The biggest difference between Keith and CJ in my opinion is Keith played as a "Chemical Warrior" and if it wasn't around played about 2 balls worse. CJ didn't need "Chemicals". He had one of the top gears in the country and didn't need the extra help. If they played today I'm sure KM could get the 9 ball playing 10 ball, and I'm sure he wouldn't like it. Unless of course if he was WIRED out his mind. Jam if your offended it DOESN'T MATTER, because we all know how KM played his whole career. If you have two guys that play about the same, I take the player on the "NATURAL" every time.

 

[JAM]

The biggest difference between Keith and CJ in my opinion is Keith played as a "Chemical Warrior" and if it wasn't around played about 2 balls worse. CJ didn't need "Chemicals". He had one of the top gears in the country and didn't need the extra help. If they played today I'm sure KM could get the 9 ball playing 10 ball, and I'm sure he wouldn't like it. Unless of course if he was WIRED out his mind. Jam if your offended it DOESN'T MATTER, because we all know how KM played his whole career. If you have two guys that play about the same, I take the player on the "NATURAL" every time.

Looking at your posting history, I can see that you are a CJ cheerleader. That's fine. I totally admire that.

You're wrong about Keith being WIRED out of his mind, though, at least on my watch. That is an untruth.

Give CJ my best regards. He is truly lucky to have fans like you posting so much about him on AzBIlliards Discussion Forum. I loved some of your earlier posts about CJ. Good for you!

My best to you and CJ.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

As far as Keith posting on this forum, it is because of members like you that he does not post here as often as he used to when he had his own subforum in the Ask the Pro section. The climate of AzBilliards Discussion Forum has changed since 2003. In some respects, the news coverage has gotten better and better, but the quality of posts in this Main Forum aren't as fun as they used to be -- well, at least for me. I can't speak for the entire forum who were members back in 2004 on up.

If somebody posts an opinion based on their knowledge, whether I agree with it or not, I can, and do, respect it, but I do not respect posts written by established knockers and nits on this forum who continue to jump in and out of threads posting flippant remarks and sarcasm. That is you. This is the category I believe you fall into. It's not just me on the receiving end, like it is this morning. It's anybody who you believe you can take advantage of and exploit, writing assine remarks that oftentimes have nothing to do with the topic of the thread to begin with.

Best thing Keith and I both can do, I think, is to not contribute to AzBilliards Discussion Forum anymore. Even when Keith does contribute to the forum, his words are sometimes met by knockers and nits and those, like you, who believe it is me writing my thoughts, as if I am Keith. Nothing could be further from the truth. Keith may have expertise in shooting pool, but it just so happens I'm good at converting the spoken word into print. That's my expertise.

The negative energy that is generated by posting on AzBilliards Discussion Forum isn't a good thing for me personally. Life is too short, at least for me, to subject myself to this type of experience. I take hiatuses all the time. I say the Serenity Prayer. Life goes on . . .

Jam...

You never addressed SakuJack's point about you posting using an account under Keith's name. You clearly hate multi-account users, but to many on here it's 100% (stress ZERO doubt) that you login to his account and make posts on his behalf.

I'm not saying you're not posting his general "intention," however, you clearly add what you feel is necessary and where.

LEST you want AZB to actually believe that Keith is a grammar and writing mechanic, which his posts indicate, with the proper uses of commas, colons and semi-colons. He couldn't even spell "comma" and I'd spot him the "co."

I'm not knocking or attacking, just stating a fact that "is what it is."

That said, Keith is a LEGEND and could wipe his ass with grammar, for all he cares. My point is: don't call out others for doing the exact same thing you're doing.... it's embarrassing because people like Saku and myself are forced to say something when we don't even wanna.

If this match happens, I'm a watcher 100%.

Dave

 

[JAM]

Jam...

You never addressed SakuJack's point about you posting using an account under Keith's name. You clearly hate multi-account users, but to many on here it's 100% (stress ZERO doubt) that you login to his account and make posts on his behalf.

I'm not saying you're not posting his general "intention," however, you clearly add what you feel is necessary and where.

LEST you want AZB to actually believe that Keith is a grammar and writing mechanic, which his posts indicate, with the proper uses of commas, colons and semi-colons. He couldn't even spell "comma" and I'd spot him the "co."

I'm not knocking or attacking, just stating a fact that "is what it is."

That said, Keith is a LEGEND and could wipe his ass with grammar, for all he cares. My point is: don't call out others for doing the exact same thing you're doing.... it's embarrassing because people like Saku and myself are forced to say something when we don't even wanna.

If this match happens, I'm a watcher 100%.

Dave

FWIW, Dave, Keith knows how to navigate on the computer to play poker online and do Google searches. His typing skills, however, are kind of like a hunt-and-peck style with two index fingers.

Me, on the other hand, I get paid to convert the spoken word verbatim into print. In fact, believe it or not, I am certified to do so. This is my expertise.

As such, it is faster and easier for me to type Keith's words for him. Yes, we use the same computer sometimes, and, yes, we both post on AzBilliards and have separate member identities.

In fact, if you want to get down to brass tacks, Keith used to be a contributing author to InsidePOOL magazine. Of course, the articles were his stories, as well as the instruction on how to shoot the shot. I couldn't descirbe how to shoot the shots, and I definitely don't have the pool stories he does. I did polish the article and made it read better for the magazine, and then it was edited by the editor before print. I was ridiculed then, as was Keith, for my contribution to that endeavor, so much so that we quit doing it. It just wasn't worth the headache. Some folks did enjoy the articles, though, and so that is a good thing.

This is also one big reason Keith had requested to not be in the Ask the Pro section, because of members like you suggesting it was not him writing the posts.

On AzBilliards Discussion Forum, I don't polish Keith's words or edit them. The words you see written are the words that come out of his mouth. Of course, it doesn't really matter to you, I realize. This is just an opportunity for you to take a shot at me. I caught your reply to Keith's initial post in an earlier thread about him joining the cast of American Road Player. Nobody else caught it, except me, I'm sure.

If you do have a problem with Keith posting on this forum, with me typing his words, I would strongly suggest you direct your concern to Mike Howerton or Jerry Forsyth. That may be the next step for you to take since it seems to have caused you discontentment.

Seasons Greetings to you! :smile:

 

[SJDinPHX]

"Give CJ my best regards. He is truly lucky to have fans like you posting so much about him on AzBIlliards Discussion Forum. I loved some of your earlier posts about CJ. Good for you! My best to you and CJ".

Does anyone really believe THAT, will be the end of THAT ? (if you do, I have some AZ oceanfront property for sale)

 

[JAM]

"Give CJ my best regards. He is truly lucky to have fans like you posting so much about him on AzBIlliards Discussion Forum. I loved some of your earlier posts about CJ. Good for you! My best to you and CJ".

Does anyone really believe THAT, will be the end of THAT ? (if you do, I have some AZ oceanfront property for sale)

I have a press briefing in 15 minutes. It will be the end sine die. :grin-square:

 

[SJDinPHX]

I have a press briefing in 15 minutes. It will be the end sine die. :grin-square:

Jen, I did not mean to infer that you did anything wrong, I just thought your calm, gracious reply, was pretty amusing !

 

[HawaiianEye]

#3, What "cheese" are you talking about? Nobody in their right mind would bet a quarter on this imaginary match-up.

#4, an imaginary line for this non-match, in a race to 25 is that Keith does not get to 20.

ONB

Whatever cheese is on the menu.

I would assume there would be some people in their right minds who would bet more than a quarter if you are saying the line is Keith gets 6 games on the wire in a race to 25.

 

[Dave714]

Don't be offended Jam, just a honest observation from someone that played both ways. I've always liked KM warrior-like way he attacked players. As a matter of fact I like KM so much. I was the one that asked you to put up a more masculine pic of KM instead of the one that made him look like a fairy trying to catch the next rainbow. You right I'm a big CJ fan, but when you watch CJ play with the GEAR he had why wouldn't anyone like his game. I was talking with CJ once and he said he has a 5th gear that not even Buddy Hall could fade. How many players you know that had something for BH. CJ in my opinion was the strongest $$ player in the US from 88'- 1994.